Tendo City

I don't understand how that is a contradiction... it doesn't make sense. I don't understand why encouraging questionining is bad... if someone proves that something that was previously thought to be true is wrong, you change it because you try to follow what is true... and anyway when something isn't completely sure its called a theory, not a fact... though some theories are more accepted as true than others (such as the "theory" of evolution)...

Quote:2. Why invoke Jesus' name if you don't believe in him?

I do this a lot, too, yet I don't believe in Jesus... I don't know, for some reason, like any other profanity, it's just fun to say. "JESUS FUCKING CHRIST IN A TAXI CAB PAYING THE DRIVER IN GOLD CRUCIFICES!!!" *shrugs* I can't give a very enlightening answer on the matter, other than it's fun to say. My Dad's the same way, actually: he's an athiest, yet during the rare times when he's appalled or pissed off, he'll say "Jesus!". That's probably where I learned it.

I think that if it weren't a sin to use Christ's name in vain, it wouldn't be as amusing to say. It's not like every time I do it, I think, "Oh boy! I'm saying something dirty! Boy do I feel good now!"; it's just a way I've been conditioned to react and see no reason to stop it.

Since when do you have to believe in what you say? Where is it written that one must believe in Jesus to utter his name? Do I need to believe in muslim to say Allah? People say "Jesus Christ: not neccessarily because they belive in him, but because doing such is regarded as an expression of anger, or what have you.

Let me recap by saying, again, JESUS TAP DANCING CHRIST!

Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
Since when do you have to believe in what you say? Where is it written that one must believe in Jesus to utter his name? Do I need to believe in muslim to say Allah? People say "Jesus Christ: not neccessarily because they belive in him, but because doing such is regarded as an expression of anger, or what have you.

Let me recap by saying, again, JESUS TAP DANCING CHRIST!

But there are many, many other ways of expressing anger that don't involve invoking the name of a person/God whom you profess does not exist :D

You could for instance say Keanu Tapdancing Reeves!

Quote:If absolute, definite proof beyond any shadow of a doubt doesn't convince people, those people will never be convinced. This is a case exactly like that. And that example is idiotic and has nothing to do with evolution... socks aren't alive... and anyway creatures don't turn into other creatures that already exist...

This isnt a communist nation people can decide for themselves the meaning of life.

There is no absolute in regards to evolution ,there are creatures such as the horse shoe crap that havent changed whatsoever in 4 million years, Nore has the mosquitoes.Who says that evolution isnt engineered and directly refined by god,If it is the case anyways.

The hole Socks turning into mice is a urban myth passed on after the Dwarwin era.

Finale , Darunia You wouldnt mock the jews for the holocaust would you?

I dont feel jesus would take remarks like "jesus christ to heart" but if it is intentionaly to mock Christians its not apropriate or right it could be conciderd racism or a form of it.

Quote:This isnt a communist nation people can decide for themselves the meaning of life.

There is no absolute in regards to evolution ,there are creatures such as the horse shoe crap that havent changed whatsoever in 4 million years, Nore has the mosquitoes.Who says that evolution isnt engineered and directly refined by god,If it is the case anyways.

The hole Socks turning into mice is a urban myth passed on after the Dwarwin era.

You are so hard to understand...

Evolution? Evolution is when something changes... slowly or quickly we really aren't sure (its more likely to be quickly than slowly from what I know) genetically... usually from a mutation. Its easy to see that its real when you look at what Darwin did to discover it... how some species have small differences (from evolving in different places) from one island to the next... its pretty clear... and its a fundamental part of biology. The science of biology without evolution wouldn't exist...

But there are many, many other ways of expressing anger that don't involve invoking the name of a person/God whom you profess does not exist

You could for instance say Keanu Tapdancing Reeves!

Yea, but that doesn't have the same effect. Just because you believe in Jesus doesn't mean I do. If you don't want to slander him, then don't. I don't say it as a slander to Christians any more than when anyone else does. It's a VERY common explitive. If I shout 'holy shit', do I have to believe in an actual piece of blessed, eternal feces?

If the facts keep changing then they don't seem very much like a fact. At least not in the sense I think of it.

Science is not the ultimate answer to everything.
Faith is not the ultimate answer to everything.

So what, in your mind, makes faith something to be discounted, something absurd, something totally and completely moronic?

If people constantly chase science, the only result will be we'll discover just how insignificant we really are. Wahoo, sure sounds like the right idea to me.

Quote:If people constantly chase science, the only result will be we'll discover just how insignificant we really are. Wahoo, sure sounds like the right idea to me.

So you prefer a comforting lie to the truth... lots of people do...

Which brings us back 'round to my Matrix analogy. Religion is the Matrix...a comforting blanket to hide us from the real world. Some cannot be "unplugged" yet...unplugged as in be brought to see past the charade of God. It comes down to whether or not you'd rather live in a la-la land or old men who live in clouds and talking snakes, or a miserable real one.

Nobody has died and lived to say what happens after that. Science can say the body died, but what all does the body contain? Does that mean all of our ideas, our thoughts, our secrets die too? Where are they kept in our bodies? That's where I believe the soul comes in, and if there's no physical place for a soul... then it's not physical. So while the physical part of a person dies, the soul... what? Dies? Lives? Metamorphoses?

But what do you care? You've said again and again that this is nothing more than a widespread deception, a comforting lie, and all sorts of things. So fine, you can believe that. Whatever eases your mind.

Umm... your thoughts are in your brain, which when the body dies dies too...

Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
Which brings us back 'round to my Matrix analogy. Religion is the Matrix...a comforting blanket to hide us from the real world. Some cannot be "unplugged" yet...unplugged as in be brought to see past the charade of God. It comes down to whether or not you'd rather live in a la-la land or old men who live in clouds and talking snakes, or a miserable real one.

Dude, the Matrix was a religious analogy himself, Neo being Jesus, to say nothing of Trinity, Zion, Nebuchadnezzar, all names of people and places of the good guys, and religious references. That movie definitely is not about people breaking free of Religion.

Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
Which brings us back 'round to my Matrix analogy. Religion is the Matrix...a comforting blanket to hide us from the real world. Some cannot be "unplugged" yet...unplugged as in be brought to see past the charade of God. It comes down to whether or not you'd rather live in a la-la land or old men who live in clouds and talking snakes, or a miserable real one.

Religion isnt A comforting blanket its a way of life , Having a guide in your day to day life can be nice , instead of trying to find your way blind and clueless. The bible is a map , if it wornt for the lessons I learned in it I would be still seeking futile things like Fame fourtain or wasting my life entirely on sex.

Religion isnt A comforting blanket its a way of life ,

You're opinion there, buddy.

Having a guide in your day to day life can be nice , instead of trying to find your way blind and clueless.

That WOULD be nice, having a guide...now if only one existed. I wouldn't quite say blind and clueless is the way anyone not Christian lives.

The bible is a map , if it wornt for the lessons I learned in it I would be still seeking futile things like Fame fourtain or wasting my life entirely on sex.

And I still stand by my Matrix analogy. Weltall sees it another way. I think mine is more compelling.

ASM... that was odd. You say its not a comfort blanket, its a guide to life... but that sure sounds like its a 'guide' that lets you hide under that nice, comforting blanket... :)

Yea...I'm pretty sure IT IS a comforting security blanket. Beyond death is too frightening a concept, because our consciousness is forever lost into oblivion. Rather than face that, I too would rather believe in a diety. Unfortunately, "I was born outside of the matrix", and know better...there is no going back into the matrix once you're out of it.

Just love that analogy, it works on so many levels!:p

Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
Yea...I'm pretty sure IT IS a comforting security blanket. Beyond death is too frightening a concept, because our consciousness is forever lost into oblivion. Rather than face that, I too would rather believe in a diety. Unfortunately, "I was born outside of the matrix", and know better...there is no going back into the matrix once you're out of it.

Just love that analogy, it works on so many levels!:p

What about starwars? The Jedis had a afterlife and also triumped over darkness.

In the story of the Matrix Humans are enslaved by their own creations machines , If you ever saw the animatrix shorts you would know it was mankind hate and miss trust of the machines that caused them to go crazy and sadistic.

As for escaping the matrix , Neo did have to take a walk of faith to learn his powers , God the freaking Oracle also makes it pretty religous.

Your view that Religion isnt reality is merely your opinion , As we sensible people know reality isnt very kind and a little Optimism makes a big difference.Security Blanket maybe you could call it that but atleast we have somthing to believe in.

The reason you discreidit the bible is that the ones that taught your parents didnt take the time to understand it themselves, Which sadly becuase of that its like someone trying to teach quantum Physics without getting more then a few bits of knowledge before teaching it themselves.So really what I am saying is that most priest are uneducated.

Just since you're so keen on facts, ABF, I would like to point out that thoughts and emotions have been shown to affect the chemistry of the brain, but have never been found to reside in the brain or anywhere else.

Oh, and another thing I just thought of. I'm not sure how comforting religion seems, but it's not exactly soothing to think that the majority of my friends are going to an eternal hell.

Oh, and another thing I just thought of. I'm not sure how comforting religion seems, but it's not exactly soothing to think that the majority of my friends are going to an eternal hell.

I thought you didn't believe in hell; who was that if it wasn't you? One of you said the pagans invented hell.

What about starwars? The Jedis had a afterlife and also triumped over darkness.

So now all movies and stories wherein the good guys beat the bad guys (veritably EVERY SINGLE STORY EVER WRITTEN, in other words) is a religious analogy. I see.

Security Blanket maybe you could call it that but atleast we have somthing to believe in.

That last line makes your argument seem as if just believing in something is dandy just for the sake of it, regardless of whether or not it's true. Come on now, you don't mean that. That's not much of a defense.

Just since you're so keen on facts, ABF, I would like to point out that thoughts and emotions have been shown to affect the chemistry of the brain, but have never been found to reside in the brain or anywhere else.

Your sarcastically slandering his supporting of facts by bringing up something like that? If thoughts have never been seen the reside in the brain is a fact, then the fact that no one has ever seen a soul nor seen proof of it's existence is just as good of one.

Quote:Originally posted by WhiteFleck
Just since you're so keen on facts, ABF, I would like to point out that thoughts and emotions have been shown to affect the chemistry of the brain, but have never been found to reside in the brain or anywhere else.

Oh, and another thing I just thought of. I'm not sure how comforting religion seems, but it's not exactly soothing to think that the majority of my friends are going to an eternal hell.

Hellfire is not even mention in the bible , The word "hell" put in the king james version was purposely placed instead of hades (greek for grave or death) . The only creature even remotely put in prision is the devil in the near future after armegedon but its only for 1,000 years. So even the devil is granted peace in death.

As for your freinds they will be given a fair chance as long as dont do anything such as serial murder or rape.

the discovery on emotions is amazing , But I think it is electrical impulses?

Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
So now all movies and stories wherein the good guys beat the bad guys (veritably EVERY SINGLE STORY EVER WRITTEN, in other words) is a religious analogy. I see.

I dont regard cowboy movies as religous or anything with senseless violence , I am talking about freedom for thee opressed and inner stuggles.The Analogies were started by you.

That last line makes your argument seem as if just believing in something is dandy just for the sake of it, regardless of whether or not it's true. Come on now, you don't mean that. That's not much of a defense.

I am gonna ask you a question, How do you view the future? Whats your outlook on life as it seems all the bullets are at me?
Be interesting to hear your thoughts.

Your sarcastically slandering his supporting of facts by bringing up something like that? If thoughts have never been seen the reside in the brain is a fact, then the fact that no one has ever seen a soul nor seen proof of it's existence is just as good of one. [/B]

It may surprise you but I dont believe in Imortal souls either , The word soul in hewbrew definition " living creature made of blood and life" nothing copourial. I believe in resseruction as in literaly coming back to life, not flying away into enternal bliss.

So you're a...buddhist?

Hell is something I would never wish on anyone. If Hell was this sort of la-la land, then there would be absolutely nothing that Christ saved people from. It would have been a pointless death.

If you believe all this, then you would believe Christ descended into hell for the three days he was dead, to serve our punishment. All the punishment on earth would have been minor scrapes compared to the punishment he would receive from Satan. Jesus was delivered into his hands, thus "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

So I would say Hell is absolute separation from God, and complete saturation of Satan.

Darunia, I brought it up only to say that yes, nobody has seen a physical or spiritual soul, so they don't know if it exists or if it doesn't. But wait, who would expect to see a soul anyways? Seeing brain patterns is one thing, but... nah, forget it.

Jesus was dead for 3 days but came back as he predicted.

The word Hell is only in certain bibles but it is really the grave or hades in the old dead sea scrolls .

Hell is something I would never wish on anyone. If Hell was this sort of la-la land, then there would be absolutely nothing that Christ saved people from. It would have been a pointless death.

Why do people have to die anyway? You say that if there weren't a hell, then Christ would've died for nothing...yet in reality if there weren't one, he wouldn't have died at all. How can you claim that there is an almighty god who can do anything, and yet to save us from ourselves, he had no choice but to sacrifice his son? If he were all-powerful, why didn't he just wiggle his nose like Bewitched and save us?

Quote:If he were all-powerful, why didn't he just wiggle his nose like Bewitched and save us?

I may be a Christian, but I have to admit that's a good point. The best answer I can give is... he could've, but he didn't for some reason beyond the comprehension of our feeble human minds. Just a theory.

I'll echo what Geno said, because it's probably true. And I'll agree with you, it doesn't seem right. But faith isn't only taking the parts you like, it's swallowing the whole pill.

But God gave people free choice. That's a limitation he set. Lucifer resulted, Lucifer wants mankind to suffer. For whatever Godly reason, God saved his people through the sacrifice of his son. Believing and accepting that is one of the cornerstones of the basic Christian faith. It's not, "if I'm good, I can get to heaven, so I'd better tell all my friends to be nice!" It's, "you're friends and everyone around you is going to die if you don't start spreading the word and letting God work on them." That's not a crutch, that's a command.

Jesus didnt die , He simpily proved he had no fear of men or the devil.

As for god winkling his nose it isnt that simple. It would be the same as installing Obedience chips into your childrens brains.

What on earth do you mean, Jesus didn't die? There's almost no way the New Covenent could take place if there was no sacrifice made. The Old Covenent (Judaism) was based on imperfect sacrifices to atone for sins. Christ was the perfect sacrifice, thus atoning for all sins permanently. It is absolutely necessary that Christ died.

So if Jesus died for our sins, then why aren't we exempt for our own sins? If he "died for our sins", but we still aren't allowed to sin, then he died for nothing, didn't he? You can say, "Oh, he died for the sins for the people in his lifetime up until his death", but then why even bring it up in the first place? Jesus died for someone's sins, but why is it brought up so much if he didn't die for OUR sins? Why should we be penalized for sins that were committed by different people countless generations back? Was his death a gateway for people to get into heaven in the first place? If so, then what about the people that lived before Jesus? Do they not go to heaven? That's a little unfair... then again, god isn't fair, I think that's been made clear.

And also, if we supposedly aren't perfect and CAN'T be perfect and have to accept Jesus and god's forgiveness, then what's the point of even having modern sins? I mean, if all we have to do is accept Christ's forgiveness, and the fact is that we CAN'T be perfect, then why strive to conform to Christianity's morals in the first place?

I've heard "All you have to do is accept Christ's forgiveness!", but obviously, that's not the case. You also have to abide to the 10 commandments, it seems. And what about converting other people? Isn't that "not our place to judge", since we're just a bunch of ignorant, imperfect humans? This god sure doesn't know tolerance, I'll say that... the whole telling people they have to be saved gimmick works wonders, though, doesn't it? Instilling fear into people to spread the word of Christ, so all they love can be saved.

And how can Heaven be utopia if god allows those we love to suffer for not accepting Christ/its forgiveness? Just so we don't suffer in hell? That sounds a little disturbing... the fear that religion instills into people is all around disturbing. "You're unworthy, you have to be saved, you have to accept Christ's forgiveness or be subjected to Lucifer's torment."

So many questions for such a strange belief system...

Quote:Originally posted by Sacred Jellybean
So if Jesus died for our sins, then why aren't we exempt for our own sins? If he "died for our sins", but we still aren't allowed to sin, then he died for nothing, didn't he? You can say, "Oh, he died for the sins for the people in his lifetime up until his death", but then why even bring it up in the first place? Jesus died for someone's sins, but why is it brought up so much if he didn't die for OUR sins? Why should we be penalized for sins that were committed by different people countless generations back? Was his death a gateway for people to get into heaven in the first place? If so, then what about the people that lived before Jesus? Do they not go to heaven? That's a little unfair... then again, god isn't fair, I think that's been made clear.

And also, if we supposedly aren't perfect and CAN'T be perfect and have to accept Jesus and god's forgiveness, then what's the point of even having modern sins? I mean, if all we have to do is accept Christ's forgiveness, and the fact is that we CAN'T be perfect, then why strive to conform to Christianity's morals in the first place?

I've heard "All you have to do is accept Christ's forgiveness!", but obviously, that's not the case. You also have to abide to the 10 commandments, it seems. And what about converting other people? Isn't that "not our place to judge", since we're just a bunch of ignorant, imperfect humans? This god sure doesn't know tolerance, I'll say that... the whole telling people they have to be saved gimmick works wonders, though, doesn't it? Instilling fear into people to spread the word of Christ, so all they love can be saved.

And how can Heaven be utopia if god allows those we love to suffer for not accepting Christ/its forgiveness? Just so we don't suffer in hell? That sounds a little disturbing... the fear that religion instills into people is all around disturbing. "You're unworthy, you have to be saved, you have to accept Christ's forgiveness or be subjected to Lucifer's torment."

So many questions for such a strange belief system...

I understand you concerns jellybean , But let me clear this up for you.

When Adam and Eve sined it gave the devil reason to believe he owned the Humans. Infact he uses Sin to keep hold on us preventing us from ever achieving happiness , his arguement was that we only worshiped god becuase he protects us, not becuase we love him.

Simpily destroying the devil would do nothing as a new one would take his place.
Humans are already under Lucifers Torment and I can say he will be destroyed in due time.

Jesus was sent to prove that a human could go on and not sin and fall prey to the Devils enslavement.He set an example for people to fellow and offerd forgiveness and mercy even to all those enslaved by sin and evil , He even forgave the soldiers that killed him as he knew they didint know what they were doing they were just trying to support their families.


Humans can be perfect with time but not in this current system as the pressure is far to strong so our goal is survive untill armegedon.
God doesnt expect us to be perfect in our current state ,which is why Jesus came to teach us how we could do it.

As for your freinds suffering I have said it before Hell does not exist and hell fire is a false doctrine that is not in the bible. jesus clearly stated the" dead are not concious of anything".

You could do your freinds a good deed and teach them the truth , but if they dont want too listen thats clearly their decision to make,But they will have many opportunities to have a change in heart.

I'm not swallowing it...if God were real, he could seal hell up forever, and there would be no more pain or suffering. And if Jesus died to forgive all sin, why arent Adam and Eve forgiven...?

Like I said, it's beyond our comprehension. I have my reasons for believing though. One such reason... what if it's true? If it's not true, then it doesn't matter if we're atheist, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist... we're all gonna die. However, if it's true, atheists are screwed. The only problem is... which one is true? That's the only thing that worries me. But my belief is that if God is as good as he is preached to be, he'd understand my dilemma. After all, it's not my fault he's isolating himself from society, leaving only a book as proof of his existance.

I have faith, but that doesn't mean I don't have doubts. It's perfectly normal for any religious person to have doubts. It's a possibility that someone just got bored one day and wrote the Bible, then passed it out as true. But what if the Bible is just another history textbook? It's written by many different people like you and me and that guy down the street. To me, believing that Jesus existed is like believing that George Washington, Christopher Columbus, Julius Caesar, and Genghis Khan existed. But there are still some mysteries yet to be uncovered... for example, who wrote the book of Genesis if no life existed back then? Did God himself write it? Did God explain the beginning to someone and that person wrote it? It's very confusing, but then again, how do we know that Julius Caesar was born in 100 BC? It's not like anyone who was around back then knew what year it was considering we didn't make the whole BC/AD year system until after Christ's birth. Did people just keep track of how long it had been since Caesar's birth? Most likely, it was just an estimate that he was born in 100 BC.

I really can't argue with other people over their religions. I have about as much proof that my religion is legitimate as they have that theirs is the real McCoy. I can't even prove that atheism is false. As such, I respect everyone's beliefs, but I have my own. Trying to figure the whole thing out is like trying to figure out how to find the square root of a 75-digit number without a calculator. :bang:

When the Bible was written is a good question... some parts of the Old Testament do seem to be pretty old, while the New Testament wasn't written until years after Jesus died... the book is the result of many years of work by many authors... and Iwould take it as a historical text like other ancient books that we think do have truth to them in places... so I'm hardly going to say Jesus never existed, just that its impossible to die and then come back alive.

Oh, and I'd think that if god existed and wanted to save people or something he'd tell people that he exists and what to do to make it to heaven... and that isn't even remotely the case... :)

And yes, the subject really is impossible to debate (arguing is easy...) because of the complete lack of facts in the issue...

Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
When the Bible was written is a good question... some parts of the Old Testament do seem to be pretty old, while the New Testament wasn't written until years after Jesus died... the book is the result of many years of work by many authors... and Iwould take it as a historical text like other ancient books that we think do have truth to them in places... so I'm hardly going to say Jesus never existed, just that its impossible to die and then come back alive.

Oh, and I'd think that if god existed and wanted to save people or something he'd tell people that he exists and what to do to make it to heaven... and that isn't even remotely the case... :)

And yes, the subject really is impossible to debate (arguing is easy...) because of the complete lack of facts in the issue...

The new testament was written by all of his apostles,Some of it was written after his death other books were written while he was alive. Everything written by Paul was after Jesus death since he didnt join the pack untill later.

God warns those that listen , not the ones who believe he is fairy tale.
Ressurection is like saving computer data you can bring it back as long it stored safely.

Quote:Like I said, it's beyond our comprehension. I have my reasons for believing though. One such reason... what if it's true? If it's not true, then it doesn't matter if we're atheist, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist... we're all gonna die. However, if it's true, atheists are screwed. The only problem is... which one is true?

I think fear is a silly reason to give into certain beliefs... you shouldn't be scared into believing something, but rather, build your beliefs based on logic. I know you have faith, too, I just wanted to point out that fear is a weak reason to believe in something.

I'd feel a lot more comfortable to believe that god is a supreme dictator that demands love, worship, and forgiveness from us, and imperfect race that he supposedly created. I feel even more uncomfortable swallowing such tripe when it doesn't come from my own conclusions/experiences. Why should I believe in a god that's never spoke to me, that I've never seen, and has such undesirable qualities?

I find it much more practical to disregard supreme justice in my life and live by my own rules. I'm not going to curb my own lust or deviancy, simply because an organized religion told me that god (who created me in the first place... pfft) thinks its bad. I'm not going to thank god for my own accomplishments or curse god for my failures. I find my own independency and the love from family and friends to by fulfilling enough without an supreme, invisible ruler that requires faith and not concrete proof.

Yea, really now...believing in something out of fear for it is no reason to believe in it. If there were any credible evidence that there MAY be a god, then there may be some weight to your argument, but THERE IS NONE! Christians have an old book of dubious origins, and a long history of corrupt church officials. No evidence, no proof; a god who continues to reign over everyone, and yet never shows himself, never intervenes. Whats the point of having a god if he never does anything.

There is one thing I'll admit: It is impossible to say that there is no god. However, the chance that there is is so remote that the possibility is about as big as the possibility that the universe was created one second ago exactly as it is now. Like god, that is an issue that you can't disprove... I mean, if the universe and everything it was just created exactly as it is, then you'd never know it... and if got existed and did stuff to create the universe whenever you say he did (does anyone actually still think the world is 6000 years old?) also can't be disproved... but the idea makes about as much sense...

Good point, ABF; according to the bible (which cannot be wrong), the world is only a few thousand years old. That, despite fossiles, despite dinosaurs, despite billions of years of the universe being around...Riddle me that one!

Any God worth his peanuts could whip up something that looks old in a matter of seconds.

But hey, you guys have questions you want answered. I don't have them. Everyone, enjoy your lives, expand your horizons, and have a good time.

And no, this isn't some sort of eternal farewell, just dropping out of the conversation. :)

Quote:Good point, ABF; according to the bible (which cannot be wrong), the world is only a few thousand years old. That, despite fossiles, despite dinosaurs, despite billions of years of the universe being around...Riddle me that one!

No, no. God, if he is all powerful, could have created the earth exactly as it is with the dinosaur bones in it... why he would makes no sense, but there it is.

Same as if the universe suddenly appeared a second ago exactly as it is, including all your memories in the brain...

I'll admit, fear is a silly reason to believe. It sort of makes me like an Iraqi being loyal to Saddam out of fear. But the main reason I'm a Christian, truthfully, is because I was raised that way. I admit, there are many doubts and paradoxes and even some hints that God may not exist. I do wonder sometimes why he never shows himself anymore. Sometimes, it's easier just to not question these things. I'm just going to stick with my beliefs, but not rely too much on them. (i.e. I'm not going to ask God to give me a million dollars, then not do my job.)

And what about predestination... believing in that puts you in a spiral where you can say that nothing that happens to you is your fault and you have no control... not exactly a good attitude to accomplish all too much in many ways...

Remember, God guides those suicide bombers... at least by their beliefs...

Responsibility diffusion... scary concept.

Heh, the dinosaur thing reminds me of something a comedian named Bill Hicks said. "So I asked one of these fundamentalist Christians how dinosaurs and fossils fit into their whole scheme of beliefs. 'Dinosaur fossils?' he said. 'God put those there to test our faith.' Does that bother anyone else here? The idea that God may be fucking with our heads? I have trouble sleeping with that notion! *pantomimes God digging and putting a dinosaur fossil into the ground* Haw haw haw! I am a prankster god! I am killing me! We'll see who believes in me now! Haw haw haw!"

I reiterate, one fricken' weird belief system...

It made plenty of sense... 1500 years ago when there was none of this silly 'science' to mess with it, and everyone knew that it was all true... (or, rather, knew that what their Priest told them was true... people back then didn't know how to read...)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/s...55,00.html

Long article, but well worth reading... it outlines very nicely all that the rightwingers are doing to science in this political climate...

Anyone who ever thought that anyone should have any faith in humanity is a fool.

Wow... That's a pretty long conspiracy rant...

On another note, some people don't seem to understand stem cells. Allow me to point something out. Stem cells aren't JUST from fetuses! For that matter, while stem cell RESEARCH is helped by cultivating those, people won't be helped by using OTHER HUMAN'S cells. Stem cells aren't completely blank cells. That's a misconception. They are rather "base" that ARE based on the DNA of whatever organism uses them. They aren't universal. The stem cells of spiders for instance are constructed differently from that of the stem cells of humans. This is because of the DNA. Stem cells can ONLY become the types of cells that the DNA is designed to make. Spider stem cells can only become complete cells for spider tissues. In other words, you can't create a pizza restaurant with creative use of stem cells.

Here is the more important thing though. If you used another human's stem cells to make a replacement heart for yourself, your body would reject it the same as it would a transplanted organ, because the stem cells would have replicated and replicated using their DNA, since that's all they can do. The reason for study is to learn how best to use a person's OWN stem cells to replicate organs. Unless a person uses their own stem cells, there will be rejection just like inserting any other human's organs into your body will do. It's using your own stem cells, IE, your own genetic code, that prevents rejection because it's actually a part of your own body. Thus, the only reason that fetus cultivating is being done is for the RESEARCH. There are no plans to actually use the foreign stem cells for other people because that would result in the same rejection as standard organ transplant. Again, the goal is to find the best way to cultivate remaining stem cells from grown humans (even grown humans still have some stem cells, they are just very rare, and get rarer as you get older) in order to cultivate organs that have the same genetic code.

I'm not sure if this was even mentioned, but it's been a pet peeve of mine that people seem to misunderstand exactly what a stem cell is. With this information in mind, I am FOR stem cell research (after all, fetuses aren't the only source nor are they even the desired way to replicate organs since that wouldn't be compatible genetically).

I read somewhere it is imposible to clone prime apes including Ourselves. Many monkey clone fetuses all died in the Fetuses stage and have yet to show one that survived past birth.

That was pretty recent info.

Quote:There is one thing I'll admit: It is impossible to say that there is no god. However, the chance that there is is so remote that the possibility is about as big as the possibility that the universe was created one second ago exactly as it is now. Like god, that is an issue that you can't disprove... I mean, if the universe and everything it was just created exactly as it is, then you'd never know it... and if got existed and did stuff to create the universe whenever you say he did (does anyone actually still think the world is 6000 years old?) also can't be disproved... but the idea makes about as much sense...

1. The bible doesnt give a exact amount of time that it had taken to create the earth.The Hewbrew word Day doesnt mean 24 hours or a thousand years , It means a certain orderd passage of time. so really it could be in the millions , plus it also states in early Genesis that the earth was a faceless waste before god brought creation to it , suggesting the earth itself existed before life sprouted on it.I believe the dinosaus existed as genesis did speak of walking ,flying ,swimming monsters and beast before man.

2. As for believing in god out of fear , I can say personally the reason I maintain faith is the good it does for me ,giving me real meaning as before I found god I thought I was garbage , I constantly belittled myself I had no hope for the future or no real personal esteem or value for myself.I feel many of my peers could use some sense of direction since Suicide is a major problem as is depression.

3. If any of you studied the bible beyond searching for sopposed holes or contridictions, you might learn that the knowledge and wisdom is logical in itself , Jesus was a good exmaple at how people should be he never turned away anyone that asked for help even his opposers.This is were god can speak to you and you can speak to him.

4. As for not wanting to obbey god , it would be the same as parents not even teach their kids anything just let them do whatever they want imagine how messed society would be.How selfish it would be.

I exmaine gods laws and see the impact and damage if they are disobeyed so I come to the conclusion he knows whats best for us.Questioning his laws and examining them is acceptable since you will learn why they exist and are that important.

5. Another rediculous claim by atheist that the rising of red sea never happened in the exodus , saying the water was only 3 inches high at that time of the year so anybody could have crossed , Yet they forget somehow Pharaoh and armies are sopposed to drown somehow? I dont see hundres of soldier drown in 3 inches of water.

Quote:5. Another rediculous claim by atheist that the rising of red sea never happened in the exodus , saying the water was only 3 inches high at that time of the year so anybody could have crossed , Yet they forget somehow Pharaoh and armies are sopposed to drown somehow? I dont see hundres of soldier drown in 3 inches of water.

I think it was a swamp and the people could cross it, but the chariots all got stuck... I know I've heard that as a theory (that it was in a marshland area...).

Quote: I read somewhere it is imposible to clone prime apes including Ourselves. Many monkey clone fetuses all died in the Fetuses stage and have yet to show one that survived past birth.

Remember how many tries it took to clone a sheep? I imagine humans or monkeys would take just as many... which is a lot...

Quote:Wow... That's a pretty long conspiracy rant...

No, conspiracy rants are about things that aren't facts... that article is all true...