Tendo City

Given you, I sadly don't know if you're joking...

Oh, and page 6! Yeah!

Quote:Originally posted by Sacred Jellybean
I have a question.

Okay... some here have claimed that god has given us free thought, and therefore we have the choice to be saved, yadda yadda yadda. Well, what about the divine plan? If everything's supposedly predetermined, then we aren't free- we're simply acting out our roles in the divine plan. That also makes god hypocritical for becoming envious of "other gods", if s/he/it's the one who determined our actions beforehand.

He does not predetermine someones fate or future , Otherwise why did he warn Ninevah that he would destroy the city if they dont stop the bloodshed if it was already predetermined?As I remeber after hearing Jonah warning the Ninevites repented and God spared the city for the time being.Thuss the Ninevites had
The ability to choice their Destiny.

God can see into the future or possible Future,But he does not write someones Destiny before hand.

he would destroy the city if they dont stop the bloodshed if it was already predetermined?

If he did that to Ninevah back in the day, why doesn't he do that to Hitler, Stalin, or Saddam. Wait a tick; destroys whole cities because people won't listen to him? God's worse than Saddam!

He didnt destroy Ninevah he simpily allowed its enemies to destroy it.You also forget he spared the city 100 years before its destruction, untill the next genration was less repentful, he simpily made sure that Ninevah would fall to its enemies the Caldeans.

Ninevah was a violent city were Human suffering was common.
God swore he would not destroy a city if their was one single rightous soul in it , As was Lot in soddome and Gommorah.These cities were also given multiple prior warnings.

God doesnt interfere anymore untill his appointed time ,Bible predicted these modren kings and their fall as well.

You must've forgotten the question:

If he did that to Ninevah back in the day, why doesn't he do that to Hitler, Stalin, or Saddam.

After Jesus death he did not interfere in Human affairs directly afterward. He simpily gave his followers a promised Future and his Knowledge to survive the times untill then.

I cannot answer all your questions as it will take extensive study such knowledge cannot be passed in only a few posts.

The United States is not his chosen nation nore is any other Nation all will or have recieved Judgement in the end of days.
If history serves right Hitler was defeated as was the soviet union as was fortold.

Here's how I see it (sort of):

God knows what we're going to do. God can influence our decisions, but he doesn't make them. We get to make our own choices, but regardless of what we do God has known that all along. As a result, everything has already happened and has yet to happen at the same time. Remember, if God is outside of time then he isn't constrained by it, so to him it probably appears that everything happens at once.

So we get to make choices, but God knows the outcomes already and everything ends up okay in the end! (<---- dumbed down)

Oh yeah, I forgot. Darunia, God does as he pleases; he doesn't have to answer to you, me, or anyone else. Therefore, we really can't say why he would destroy Ninevah and not more recent evils. But there's a reason. There's a reason for everything. Some reasons are really insignificant, but something is greater than nothing.

However, if I were to venture a guess, I would say that God isn't as much allowing evil to live as he is allowing evil to run its course, perhaps to make some sort of point.

Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
You must've forgotten the question:

If he did that to Ninevah back in the day, why doesn't he do that to Hitler, Stalin, or Saddam.

He is doing to Saddam exactly what ASM noted that He did to Hitler, Stalin, and Nineveh: He allowed their enemies to destroy them.

He said that the city Babbylon would be a Desolate waste were no one would desire to live. "Iraq"!

He is doing to Saddam exactly what ASM noted that He did to Hitler, Stalin, and Nineveh: He allowed their enemies to destroy them.

Well he sure isn't making it easy for us, is he. God needs to get with the fucking program.

Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
[B] He is doing to Saddam exactly what ASM noted that He did to Hitler, Stalin, and Nineveh: He allowed their enemies to destroy them.

Well he sure isn't making it easy for us, is he. God needs to get with the fucking program. [/B]

Which is why we're fighting AK47 riflemen and RPG launcher-toters in pickup trucks with Stealth fighters, stealth bombers, aircraft carriers, cruise missiles guided by GPS satellite, night vision, and bunker busters? It's why Saddam loses a thousand men for each one we lose?

I don't know what war you're watching, but I don't really think it can get any easier for us unless they just stop fighting.

Well, numerically, I think they actually may have more troops... but the tech edge does negate that mostly.

Quote:As a result, everything has already happened and has yet to happen at the same time.

I dunno... that means that everything is still predetermined. He knows the outcome, but... *shrugs* Just makes life seem more silly and meaningless to me, if we're all just supposedly puppet's in god's so-called creation.

So what's the point of prayer, if everything already has a certain outcome? Makes praying seem kinda futile... since it's already determined, why not just sit back and let things go? Why not just work on improving your own life yourself, rather than asking god to help you?

How can it get any easier..? What about their styiff resistance, and the huge anti-war international sentiment? How come every day one of our helicopters crashes, and how come they captured and tortured our POWs? How come we're bogged down 50 miles outside of Iraq? Why doesn't god take care of his own?

Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
How can it get any easier..? What about their styiff resistance, and the huge anti-war international sentiment? How come every day one of our helicopters crashes, and how come they captured and tortured our POWs? How come we're bogged down 50 miles outside of Iraq? Why doesn't god take care of his own?

When did anyone say God would make it a bloodless victory?

Good lord this topic is getting stupid.

Since when are Americans god's own? Since when is what we're doing god's will, and therefore god supports us? Seems not only self-interested, but scary. I can think of other people who thought their god's will justified their killing... which is why we're into this whole "War on Terrorism" in the first place.

remeber the story were Jesus went a 8 days without food or rest,
The devil tempted and Harrased him many times too Join him?The devil offerd to make him the most powerful man in the world head of all nations. Of course Jesus Refused and Bannished him away.

In truth all Human Kingdoms dont belong to god but to the Devil, God views human nations as savage beast devouring themselves apart. The overall reason he doesnt interfere is to prove man cannot rule himself.

I don't really see any reason God should make it easy for us. It's not like we have a nation full of people ferverently praying and worshipping him. There's not some sort of almighty obligation to make life really easy for America, or any group of people, for that matter.

And SJ, if it helps to confuse things further, chew on this: If you don't pray, then you were predetermined to not pray. Thusly, you aren't cancelling anything out; it was already going to happen that way. There's no way of knowing what WOULD happen if you act one way or the other, you just have to pick.

Let's say a couple years back Darunia had never IMed me randomly to recruit me for the little "console war." Would I still end up at TC? Who knows, that's not how it happened. Even if the future is concrete, we can't see it, so it doesn't matter.

The future is what we make it .

Though I've always supported the war in Iraq , The U.S isnt a Holy place free from Evil and bloodshed were everyone loves their neighbor. Truth is its anything but that , Though their are some really good people in the U.S , but the U.S isnt gods nation.

Gods nation is the people that are his disciples worldwide.

God permits suffering to motivate Humans to better themselves and take action.All of our suffering is caused by ourselves and our own inner evil.

God Flooded the earth and Tried to wipeout evil ,but eventually it only came back so he his plan now is to cure the desease and prevent it from returning.Once he proves good is better then evil once and for all it will never be left to reapear.

People learn under Trial, just as many people made a big reflection after 9/11 on their prior errors.(myself included).

God did promise a Future were these things would never exist ever again. People need to get off their ass and start trying to improve themselves if they wish to be in that new world.Not talking about just church and prayer , I am talking about attitude and a change in thinking.

Placing Blaime doesnt change anything.

*Sigh*

So, God created humanity, to allow it to fall to corruption, and sit back and chose a few of the billions to be graced to heaven. If god created all humanity, and hell is as bed as it's said to be, and he's allowing billions of people to go there, he's worse than Saddam or anyone for that matter.

Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
*Sigh*

So, God created humanity, to allow it to fall to corruption, and sit back and chose a few of the billions to be graced to heaven. If god created all humanity, and hell is as bed as it's said to be, and he's allowing billions of people to go there, he's worse than Saddam or anyone for that matter.

Well, in the beginning, all men were destined for heaven, until Adam and Eve ate that apple, disobeying direct orders. God then decided that man now knows evil as well as good, so they have to choose to be good people, and believe in Him to reach Heaven. Those who choose to lead lives that lead to Hell are at fault, not God. He didn't make them rotten.

Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
*Sigh*

So, God created humanity, to allow it to fall to corruption, and sit back and chose a few of the billions to be graced to heaven. If god created all humanity, and hell is as bed as it's said to be, and he's allowing billions of people to go there, he's worse than Saddam or anyone for that matter.

There is no hell only death, Hell fire is a false doctrine brought in by Pagans. As the Romans believed in a simular doctrine.

God is going to bring humans back alive on earth.Only the chosen 144,000 go to heaven to serve as priest, the rest get to live as humans forvever in Paradise.

God gave us free will otherswise or why would he have even given it to us if he would have to control us like puppets anyways.Thats why he prefers us to choose him willingly.

If only you knew how crazy you both sounded.

Adam and Eve...jesus tap dancing christ, come on! All because of a magical apple and a talking snake, humanity for all time to come is doomed to suffering and half of them eternal damnation? God doesn't play fair. He shows no sign of his being, and thusly some of us will doubt him. Do I deserve to go to hell for ever because of that?

Exactly what I was thinking... how it is so hard to believe that people can actually take stories like that so seriously... it is just bizarre...

'Seems a little cruel to create life, give that life the gift of free will, then making that life suffer for using that gift. That's like giving a child a hot dog, then smacking it across the face for eating it with mustard and not ketchup. But that's just me.

BTW- this refers to the whole "sending people to hell for not conforming to the will of a god whose intentions are ambiguous" jig, not an observation as to how people will suffer while alive based on the decisions they make.

Why does anyone here bother to pretend to know what God's thinking. ASM, I'm including you. Heck, I'm including me. Fact is, NOBODY COULD EVER KNOW WHAT A GOD IS THINKING. So really, it's all hypotheses anyways.

Now, I would say Hell = Absolute seperation from anything related to God.

And chew on this. God created everyone, gave them free will. He doesn't control things, but he knows how they all turn out. So what if he knew who would accept his lordship and who wouldn't?

To use SJ's example, that would be like making up your mind that, if the kid doesn't pick ketchup, she gets slapped. Then, when you know the kid won't use ketchup, you let her continue with her decision. So what would be the point of going back on your decision, your word? What's to gain?

And the whole Adam and Eve thing was a whole lot more than picking the wrong apple. There was a huge battle going on in heaven, and that's how things panned out on earth. Lucifer rebels, is thrown down, tempts Eve as retribution against God. But God knew about it the whole time, knew it was all supposed to pan out like this? Interesting. When I get to heaven, I wouldn't mind asking him what the whole reason is.

Oh, and ASM, I think you're treading some shaky ground when you say God attempted to wipe out Evil with the flood. If God IS God, then he's incapable of failure. I think it was more of a cleansing of the earth, if I remember right. Clean slate sort of thing.

Quote:Originally posted by WhiteFleck
Why does anyone here bother to pretend to know what God's thinking. ASM, I'm including you. Heck, I'm including me. Fact is, NOBODY COULD EVER KNOW WHAT A GOD IS THINKING. So really, it's all hypotheses anyways.

Now, I would say Hell = Absolute seperation from anything related to God.

And chew on this. God created everyone, gave them free will. He doesn't control things, but he knows how they all turn out. So what if he knew who would accept his lordship and who wouldn't?

To use SJ's example, that would be like making up your mind that, if the kid doesn't pick ketchup, she gets slapped. Then, when you know the kid won't use ketchup, you let her continue with her decision. So what would be the point of going back on your decision, your word? What's to gain?

And the whole Adam and Eve thing was a whole lot more than picking the wrong apple. There was a huge battle going on in heaven, and that's how things panned out on earth. Lucifer rebels, is thrown down, tempts Eve as retribution against God. But God knew about it the whole time, knew it was all supposed to pan out like this? Interesting. When I get to heaven, I wouldn't mind asking him what the whole reason is.

Oh, and ASM, I think you're treading some shaky ground when you say God attempted to wipe out Evil with the flood. If God IS God, then he's incapable of failure. I think it was more of a cleansing of the earth, if I remember right. Clean slate sort of thing.

The fruits was a test , Just as parents tell their kids dont eat any cookies in that jar without my conscent. The tree itself was ordinary and had no special powers, God Gave Adam and Eve his love and affection. God as a Parent expected them to return it,He knew the devil intentions and lustful ambition, He hoped that the two humans would be obedient. But instead they belived the devils lies instead of gods word,Both never repented and placed blaim on everyone but themselves.God even despite their ungratefulness let them live and gave the rest of their lives to change thier thinking but unfortunately they didnt. So it is up to their children who inherited their sinful nature to do that.

Quote:Originally posted by alien space marine
The fruits was a test , Just as parents tell their kids dont eat any cookies in that jar without my conscent. The tree itself was ordinary and had no special powers, God Gave Adam and Eve his love and affection. God as a Parent expected them to return it,He knew the devil intentions and lustful ambition, He hoped that the two humans would be obedient.

...that contradicts the whole "GOD KNOWS EVERYTHING EVEN THE FUTURE!!!" notion...

Quote:Originally posted by Sacred Jellybean
...that contradicts the whole "GOD KNOWS EVERYTHING EVEN THE FUTURE!!!" notion...

The Future isnt Written in stone,He may see two or more possible futures that may occure depending on the Individuals actions.Even if he did know that they would disobey it doesnt change anything they Decision was still Adam and Eve's.

For example if you roll a Dice with the number 5 on all corners except one,Can you still honnestly predict your roll before hand with certainty?

The fruits was a test , Just as parents tell their kids dont eat any cookies in that jar without my conscent.

If God knew the future AT ALL, and knew that they would eat the fruit, and he still out it there and allowed it to happen, he knew they were hell-sent...rather, he planned for it. In short, he's sadistic; knew it would happen and allowed it.

I can't wait for Christianity to be overcome so humanity can evolve. There is no magical eternity...it would be nice if it were true. Alas, I fear I shall long be in my goron crypt by then.

Quote:I can't wait for Christianity to be overcome so humanity can evolve. There is no magical eternity...it would be nice if it were true. Alas, I fear I shall long be in my goron crypt by then. [/B]

I believe the end of Spirituality is the end of mankind and all that makes us Human, Weither you believe in god or not it has its place and society without it you have no hope no future.

Uh, no. No one "needs" spirituality... all it does is make people feel better. And give people something to believe in other than this world... a nice idea, but absurd in reality at this point... we're not in the Middle Ages anymore...

Really, ABF...Christians are a minority on the planet, yet what they says goes...only in their eyes. You make think otherwise, but once we die, we're the exact same. We go to the same place.

I believe the end of Spirituality is the end of mankind and all that makes us Human, Weither you believe in god or not it has its place and society without it you have no hope no future.

That's going out on a limb. Humanity has been around for thousands of years, before Christianity. Seem to have done alright without it. For those who can't adapt and "aren't ready for the real world" (à la Matrix), then stay left behind.

Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
Really, ABF...Christians are a minority on the planet, yet what they says goes...only in their eyes. You make think otherwise, but once we die, we're the exact same. We go to the same place.

[B]I believe the end of Spirituality is the end of mankind and all that makes us Human, Weither you believe in god or not it has its place and society without it you have no hope no future.

That's going out on a limb. Humanity has been around for thousands of years, before Christianity. Seem to have done alright without it. For those who can't adapt and "aren't ready for the real world" (à la Matrix), then stay left behind. [/B]

Spirituality didn't begin with Christianity It began with Judaism, which is as old as civilized man.

Judaism? Um, I'd say spirituality goes back as far as organized religion does... which goes back well before Judaisim to the first civilized society in Sumer...

Oh, and you're right, we do go to the same place when we die... nowhere...

Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
Judaism? Um, I'd say spirituality goes back as far as organized religion does... which goes back well before Judaisim to the first civilized society in Sumer...

Oh, and you're right, we do go to the same place when we die... nowhere...

Pre-Judaistic religions were hardly organized. They were loose, paganistic cults that died out with their cities. And few of those cities, if any, deserve the name 'civilization', because their influence almost never reached beyond a single city.

Anyway, you might be going nowhere when you die. I won't.

Oh come on... civilization started with Sumer, in Mespotamia. That is a fact. It started small but grew large... and had, from what I remember, one religion eventually, with a set of gods like all ancient religions... were the cities united? No... and I'm sure there were differences in religion between them... but it was more united than you imply and not just small places that died out. Sumer lasted a long time... until the Akkadians conquered it, after which the Akkadians quickly became civilized, and in their religous services they spoke both Sumerian and Akkadian... and probably took most of their gods and practices from the Sumerians too...

I don't understand and backing for saying that they were that unorganized or "died with their cities"... its just not true...

You do realize that Judaism predates Sumer by several hundred years, and the rise of the Akkadians by almost two millenia... right?

Judaism existed before civilization did? I don't know about that...

And anyway, Judaism was always just about one racial group. It did not include anyone else and did not welcome people joining it... so it fits that same 'one city' thing as what you described, except it survived...

Anyway, you might be going nowhere when you die. I won't.

Jesus tap dancing christ...will you lynch me if I take a picture, claiming I stole your soul too? Regardless of the first religion, or how old it is, the POINT was that if religion is abolished one day, the universe will NOT explode! ASM said that. If that's true, then you'd better get ready, 'cuz as I've said time over time, Christians are a minority and god must be pissed off. Problem is, you christians can't agree over anything. Some say hell si real, some say it's not. Some say only Christians get into heaven, some say good people...so many misinterpretations and shit, how CAN you believe yourselves?

Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
Uh, no. No one "needs" spirituality... all it does is make people feel better. And give people something to believe in other than this world... a nice idea, but absurd in reality at this point... we're not in the Middle Ages anymore...

Your statement proves your non chalent Attitude, If you lived in Persecution or fear of violence and desease and Starvation or just plain out depression your opinion would be different, The reason you dont apreciate or care of spirituality is that you never truly tried to.

Why does Spirituality still exist? even with all our science and knowledge like never before, People Still thurst for it,Oddly enough only Humans have a special need for it. Even well renouned scientist still strongly openly practice their faith.

Black falcon you have no Foresight.

Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
Judaism existed before civilization did? I don't know about that...

And anyway, Judaism was always just about one racial group. It did not include anyone else and did not welcome people joining it... so it fits that same 'one city' thing as what you described, except it survived...

That is Blatantly false! Hewbrews welcomed outsiders to join them if they choose to do so , As many Egyptian joined the Hewbrews in the exodus even Moses wife was not a Hewbrew.

The nation of Isreal didnt exist at that time but the Nomadic hewbrew tribes did.Egyptian records prove that this nomadic group existed recorded in early records. True worship was passed down from Noah to Abraham and so fourth, Noah Grandson Nimrod was the first one to begin making Settlements that eventually became cities.As the rest of the group didnt make a permenant settlements.
Archealogical evidence in Ninevah ruins record the exitence of Nimrod like Founder described as the mighty Hunter which is the same description in the old testiment.

People used to believe that Ninevah was a Biblical fable untill they actually dug it up and felt like idiots afterwards.

I know that plenty of Bible stories have truth to them, like most old stories... such as the Illiad. Until Troy was dug up everyone thought it was just a story... so yeah some stuff in the Bible I'm sure has a basis in truth... like as I said before, the Great Flood and how it looks like it came from when the Bosphorus broke open and what is now the Black Sea suddenly grew immensely very fast...

As for the Hebrews, while a few people joined them, mostly they did not try to get anyone else to join their religion. Its in the Bible... they never made any attempts to try to convert anyone, at least not by the time they were in Israel...

Quote:Your statement proves your non chalent Attitude, If you lived in Persecution or fear of violence and desease and Starvation or just plain out depression your opinion would be different, The reason you dont apreciate or care of spirituality is that you never truly tried to.

Why does Spirituality still exist? even with all our science and knowledge like never before, People Still thurst for it,Oddly enough only Humans have a special need for it. Even well renouned scientist still strongly openly practice their faith.

Black falcon you have no Foresight.

You make no sense...

Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
You make no sense...

Well, we agree on that.

I would venture to say that "Christianity" as a religion is so diverse because it's a billion people trying to discern what God says through his prophets, the Bible, and humanity today.

Question: If religion were abolished, what all would that include? Don't just say religion, think about every aspect of it and tell me what it is you want to get rid of. In my mind, science is practically a religion that deals with everything but theology. It tells you how to live your life, what the best medicines are, and even what happens when you die. There's strict guidelines, rules, and theories that are held up as fact. Fact itself is regarded as almost a Godhead, the end of everything. If it's not Fact, then it's nothing.

If you disagree, please do. But how does the faith of a few people bother you both so much?

Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
[B]Anyway, you might be going nowhere when you die. I won't.

Jesus tap dancing christ...will you lynch me if I take a picture, claiming I stole your soul too? Regardless of the first religion, or how old it is, the POINT was that if religion is abolished one day, the universe will NOT explode! ASM said that. If that's true, then you'd better get ready, 'cuz as I've said time over time, Christians are a minority and god must be pissed off. Problem is, you christians can't agree over anything. Some say hell si real, some say it's not. Some say only Christians get into heaven, some say good people...so many misinterpretations and shit, how CAN you believe yourselves? [/B]

Two points:

1. Who would lynch who? In this thread you have people of faith defending our belief against atheists who are trying to convert us, telling our beliefs are bullshit and that we should just accept what they believe, which is nothing. You guys are on the offensive here. None of us are telling you that you have to believe in God and Christ. We're just explaining why we do. You guys are the ones lynching us because of our beliefs.

2. Why invoke Jesus' name if you don't believe in him?

Quote:2. Why invoke Jesus' name if you don't believe in him?

I don't get it either... why use religious swearwords if you don't believe in them...

Quote:None of us are telling you that you have to believe in God and Christ.

If you think that, I don't think we are reading the same thread...

Quote:Question: If religion were abolished, what all would that include? Don't just say religion, think about every aspect of it and tell me what it is you want to get rid of. In my mind, science is practically a religion that deals with everything but theology. It tells you how to live your life, what the best medicines are, and even what happens when you die. There's strict guidelines, rules, and theories that are held up as fact. Fact itself is regarded as almost a Godhead, the end of everything. If it's not Fact, then it's nothing.

I'd written a longer response, but lost it, so in short: unquestioning belief. Science doesn't support that idea in any way, but its at the core of most normal religions and it doesn't do anyone any good... though people which believe in it would never agree with that statement because of their unquestioning belief.

Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
If you think that, I don't think we are reading the same thread..

Well, perhaps I may have overlooked someone's post, but I can speak for myself at least. I never told you what to believe.

The thread I read is about atheists trying to force their godless religion in schools, yet whining because trace amounts of Judeo-Christian ideals exist in schools.

I think Evolution should be a Specific class were only the willing may attend just like Sex ed.Evolution is a theory not a fact as their is no actual experiment which shows how it works or if it works, A pair of socks wont morph into a mouse.

Quote:I know that plenty of Bible stories have truth to them, like most old stories... such as the Illiad. Until Troy was dug up everyone thought it was just a story... so yeah some stuff in the Bible I'm sure has a basis in truth... like as I said before, the Great Flood and how it looks like it came from when the Bosphorus broke open and what is now the Black Sea suddenly grew immensely very fast...

1. Unlike the bible the Illiad doesnt explain the origin of the universe, It also lacks sense. As the bible doesnt say the world is flat and is hung up by a naked man named Atlas , the bible also says the earth is circular and rounded (sphere).God is not Poverted or Crueil like the greek pantheon.

Nobody worships greek gods as their worship ended in a mere few centuries. As Yahweh/Jehovah is still being worshiped for thousands of years and shows no sign of dieing out.

2.As for the great flood it could be the black sea , But thier is no way of knowing if its really Iraq or somthing.

Quote: I think Evolution should be a Specific class were only the willing may attend just like Sex ed.Evolution is a theory not a fact as their is no actual experiment which shows how it works or if it works, A pair of socks wont morph into a mouse.

If absolute, definite proof beyond any shadow of a doubt doesn't convince people, those people will never be convinced. This is a case exactly like that. And that example is idiotic and has nothing to do with evolution... socks aren't alive... and anyway creatures don't turn into other creatures that already exist...

Quote:1. Unlike the bible the Illiad doesnt explain the origin of the universe, It also lacks sense. As the bible doesnt say the world is flat and is hung up by a naked man named Atlas , the bible also says the earth is circular and rounded (sphere).God is not Poverted or Crueil like the greek pantheon.

Nobody worships greek gods as their worship ended in a mere few centuries. As Yahweh/Jehovah is still being worshiped for thousands of years and shows no sign of dieing out.

2.As for the great flood it could be the black sea , But thier is no way of knowing if its really Iraq or somthing.

You are just being idiotic here. I mean... others stories of how the world was created are stupid but yours (which is just as absurd) is true just because? Oh come on...

As for the Greek gods, they were worshipped for millenia... since they were the Roman gods too... look at the Illiad. Its about a story from a long time before the book was written... if you honestly think that belief in those gods didn't last long you know nothing about ancient european history.

Quote:2.As for the great flood it could be the black sea , But thier is no way of knowing if its really Iraq or somthing.

Well of course not... but that's the best theory I've seen so far.

Quote:Well, perhaps I may have overlooked someone's post, but I can speak for myself at least. I never told you what to believe.

The thread I read is about atheists trying to force their godless religion in schools, yet whining because trace amounts of Judeo-Christian ideals exist in schools.

Look. Read the posts. See all the ones that say all that about christianity and try to say that they aren't strongly implying 'if you don't believe this you are stupid/going to hell/whatever'...

I dunno Weltall, I would probably say I am on the offensive. Only because I don't particularly feel like sitting back and watching people attack something I believe in.

However, ABF, how can you defend science as being both fact and something which encourages questioning? Seems to be contradictory, at least by everything you've said so far.