Quote:Oh yes, I'm sure.
Are you doubting that lots of people love space sims? Are you insane?
Quote:That has got to be one of the dumbest things I've heard from you in a long time. Most of the people who bought this game are those who were fans of Elite and Privateer, and they got it because of the open-endedness and not for the simple story mode. There's a main story of Morrowind but I barely even touched it because it wasn't neccessary. Saying that the portion of the game that offers the most amount of playtime is just "optional" is absolutely insane.
But it IS optional! I never said that it was the majority of the gameplay or something... actually, I said it wasn't. I just said that its optional... whcih IS technically correct...
Quote:So you've played three other space sims aside from X-Wing? WOW!
I've played more than that. And none of them are as good as TIE Fighter.
Quote:I'm not talking about Privateer's combat. I'm very well of the fact that Privateer's combat is just as dull as Wing Commander's, but that wasn't the main draw of the game and it has nothing to do with this debate.
Ah, but you said that since it was from the Privateer team the combat wasn't Wing Commander-eque... now you prove yourself wrong by admitting that that team's previous games had Wing Commander style combat...
Quote:It's an archaic formula that is not fun anymore.
Its a classic formula that works just as well now as it did ten years ago.
Quote:That's complete bullshit, but I expect as much from you. The combat isn't extremely complex, of course, but it is many times more complex than the Wing Commanders of this world. There's no power management to make things "complex" but the raw dogfighting is unparalleled. It's extremely fast and gets very tough a little while into the game, and certainly puts down the very slow, boring combat of games like Wing Commander and TIE Fighter to shame.
I just don't understand you. I've read plenty of reviews of this game, and played it for several hours... all of that agrees -- the combat can be fun, and might be challenging sometimes, but in no way is it either complex or very deep. No power management, no radar, you can shoot at anyone on the screen, etc... its so simple! Sure, I'm sure it gets hard... but that isn't the point here. Harder simple combat is still simple combat.
Oh, and without joystick control, radar, or power management, the combat is lacking so much... there's only so much they can do to make up for it, and while they do what they can pretty well its just not enough to even remotely convince me that it was a good idea to do the game that way.
I just have vastly more fun using a joystick to rotate my ship, aim at enemies, track them, and shoot them down than I do using WASD and the mouse to move (up/down/left/right/sidestepping (something that starfighters should NEVER be able to do! Stupid FPS-inspired controls...)! By far!
IGN's review mentions Diablo (in that the combat is simple but other things make the game worth playing), and I certainly see their point.
Once again, you are taking personal prejudices and applying them to others like they should be the same for everyone.
Just because YOU dislike the combat in real space flight sims doesn't mean that it is BAD. Or that OTHERS should also dislike it. It just means YOU dislike it. Nothing more...
Quote:Oh please, like you know anything about combat in games. You like the ridiculously simple and tedious combat of Oni, you actually bought Mace for the N64, you enjoyed that crappy, mindless shooter Serious Sam, and you've never played a game with a complex combat system for more than a couple of hours in your entire life. The X-Wing series does not have complex combat. They have somewhat complex power and weapons management during combat, which while being done during combat is almost seperate from it. Your idea of complex combat is something very simple (look, shoot, turn) but with something complex added to it (like power management). If F-Zero had complex power management then it would simply have more complex power management, but certainly wouldn't be a deeper racer than Gran Turismo since GT's racing requires more skill in terms of braking, sliding, and handling.
Gran Turismo just isn't fun... I've played it a few times... maybe it just requires more time and patience, I don't know. I have played some other sim-like racers, though, and find them hard to get used to... not bad games, just hard to learn to play well.
Oh, and so you have played lots of true flight sims, then? I didn't know you enjoyed that genre... because if you haven't, that whole thing there is pretty hypocritical...
Also... I have played a lot of games. Have I played lots of time in those games? No, mostly it was just demos... but I have played a lot of demos, over the four-plus years I got PC Gamer and other mags with demodiscs... including some more sim-like racers. I quickly get frusterated at spinning into the dirt on every turn and give up... as for flight sims, I've liked some of the more arcadish ones, but the hardcore ones are just too high on the learning curve scale to be worth learning...
Just because I haven't played as many hours in some of these games doesn't mean that I have no clue what they are about. Oh, and I could turn this around -- have you played most of the games that I have in these genres? I doubt that... :)
As for combat complexity. I know X-Wing doesn't have the deepest combat. If it was a hardcore sim it'd be far harder to play... none of the space sims are hardcore sims. The closest things there are are I-War and Battlecruiser... so comparing them directly to other genres which DO have lots of harder-core sims is just wrong. X-Wing may be simple in comparison to Falcon 4.0, but not especially when compared to I-War... which unlike Falcon is in the same subgenre.
Oh, and I have played I-War, but not Battlecruiser.
Quote:Boy, you sure stick to your views alright! Just a few posts up you stated "Even Wing Commander has more complex combat than Freelancer... it has VERY simple combat", which is the exact opposite of what you are saying right now. It's obvious that you're unsure of your opinion and really don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Well... that depends. Freelancer is deeper than a Wing Commander I, but Wing Commander Prophecy or StarLancer? I'm not so sure...
Quote:Power management aside, yes.
Only in your mind where you see nonexistant complexity...
Quote:And this is from your what... two hours of demo playtime? Listen buddy, maybe it would be good for you to actually know what you're talking about before you get into an argument. Having to argue with someone who has such little knowledge about the thing he is arguijg about is extremely tiresome. You almost never know anything about the topics you are arguing about.
Huh? That thing you quoted there was a description of TIE Fighter's combat... I've spent dozens of hours in that game! And I was replying to a quote specifically about X-Wing! So your 'you haven't played that' thing it totally wrong here, OB1.
Quote:Right, because you can't fire missiles in Freelancer! No sirree!
Really, how much longer can you go on? This is far worse than any debate I've had with nickdaddyg. At least he admitted that he knew nothing about the subject at hand once in a while.
Never said that, I was just saying that's where I am in the game, that's all...