Quote:You just contradicted yourself by saying that my opinion is "wrong"!! THAT is why you're such a hypocrite, ABF!!
Oh well, all I'm trying to show is that you contradict yourself far more than I do... maybe I did contradict myself there, not sure. Of course given that I like to argue I'll argue about my opinions... I just try to not get too angry or to judge the person's tastes like you do... unless its something that is really weird and clearly not a good game or something, like Darunia with Quest... :)
Quote:I've said from the beginning that power management aside, the Freelancer combat is definitely deeper than most space sims, including the X-Wing games. And that is the truth. Perhaps if you had played the game for a longer amount of time you would have found that to be true.
Not with that control scheme. Not even remotely close... mouse and keyboard controls, with the controls Freelancer uses, mean simplicity! It is very easy to learn how to fight and to fight effectively, and the combat isn't exactly deep... and the depth it has is mostly not too hard to learn, except for some advanced techniques. Sure, joystick-control ones don't have so many more physical moves than Freelancer, but the ones they have just plain have a harder difficulty to performing them! That makes them more complex! Its just more challenging to play...
Oh, and it'd make it a quite different game, but in my opinion it'd be more fun. You clearly agree... and yes, it'd have been really hard to do it both ways given how you'd need to make two quite different game interfaces. Still... they could have tried...
Quote:Oh well, all I'm trying to show is that you contradict yourself far more than I do... maybe I did contradict myself there, not sure. Of course given that I like to argue I'll argue about my opinions... I just try to not get too angry or to judge the person's tastes like you do... unless its something that is really weird and clearly not a good game or something, like Darunia with Quest...
You're almost as bad.
Quote:Not with that control scheme. Not even remotely close... mouse and keyboard controls, with the controls Freelancer uses, mean simplicity! It is very easy to learn how to fight and to fight effectively, and the combat isn't exactly deep... and the depth it has is mostly not too hard to learn, except for some advanced techniques. Sure, joystick-control ones don't have so many more physical moves than Freelancer, but the ones they have just plain have a harder difficulty to performing them! That makes them more complex! Its just more challenging to play...
Oh, and it'd make it a quite different game, but in my opinion it'd be more fun. You clearly agree... and yes, it'd have been really hard to do it both ways given how you'd need to make two quite different game interfaces. Still... they could have tried...
Who says they didn't try? They're not new at this, you know. Digital Anvil has some very talented, experienced designers and they know what they're doing.
Just because it's harder to control something doesn't make it more complex. I've played Sonic Adventure with the Samba De amigo maracas before but it only made it crappy, not more complex. Bad controls does not equal complexity.
Quote:Who says they didn't try? They're not new at this, you know. Digital Anvil has some very talented, experienced designers and they know what they're doing.
Just because it's harder to control something doesn't make it more complex. I've played Sonic Adventure with the Samba De amigo maracas before but it only made it crappy, not more complex. Bad controls does not equal complexity.
They made the decision quite early in development, didn't they?
Oh, and complex does not mean bad! More challenging doesn't mean bad either! Bad is quite different from challenging, and the way you mix the two together is pretty annoying...
You're confusing complex controls with bad controls, ABF. Just because something is more difficult to control (like SA with maracas) doesn't mean that it's complex.
And they tried adding joystick support but it didn't work out.
They had a lot of things they had to cut from the game to finally ship it in any kind of schedule, so I understand why its not there... its just dissapointing, since the game would be more fun with it.
Oh, and X-Wing has complex controls, not bad ones. That's exactly my point. Complex, as in not super easy to use... but not poorly designed or with some kind of flaw that makes them bad (time between making an action and it happening on screen, etc...).
It has nothing to do with the development time of the game. The game was in development for well over four years and not including joystick support wasn't a last-minute decision.
Using a joystick is more difficult, yes, but not always the good kind of difficult.
Oh, I know it had a very long dev cycle... and to finally finish it a lot of things had to be cut at some point. Joystick control... I just doubt they had the time to try to fully work it out. You are right, it'd be hard to do given the game... but hardly impossible, I'm sure.
And as far as flight games go, it generally IS the good kind of difficult to use a joystick.
They'd have to completely change everything about the combat, so it would be very impractical.
Using a joystick should make flight games easier, not more difficult.
Why should it make it easier? Its there to make it a bit more realistic...
Oh, and it IS easier. Just try playing a standard sim with a mouse! Some let you try... but its not pretty.
Wait wait wait... you just said that it makes it more difficult and then turn around and say that it makes it easier. Make up your mind!
Uhh... yeah, I know. :D
Hmm. In standard space sims that allow mouse control (such as the DOS versions of X-Wing and TIE Fighter), that mouse control stinks really badly and makes controlling the game far harder. However, in Freelancer, the mouse control is, I'd say, easier than joystick control would have been because of how it gives you FPS-style move/strafe and lets you shoot anyone on screen and not just in front of you...
X-Wing works best with a joystick because it was made with a joystick in mind, and Freelancer works best with a kb&mouse because it was made with a kb&mouse in mind.
Yes, that is correct... doesn't change anything, though. :)
Oh for Ch--
You are an idiot!
Its just a fact that the change to a usable keyboard/mouse interface simplified the combat system and how easy it is to do things!
It didn't simplify the combat, it actually opened up new possibilities for flight!! Why can't you get that through your insanely thick skull??
New possibilities? Not new as in new to gaming, just new as in taking some ideas from other genres... sidestepping isn't new, and I still think that it was a bad idea to put it in a space sim.. as for sliding, not sure what it is. But the combat just is easier to do than joystick combat... and its a lot less engaging and fun. I just don't get anywhere near the same amount of fun from clicking on enemies as I do actually flying my ship...
You're insane, boy. You couldn't do
half the stuff in Freelancer with a joystick space sim, and that is a
fact.
And by the way, you
are clicking on enemies when you use a joystick.
With a joystick trigger, genious, which is quite different from a mouse... as you know. :)
Oh, and most of what Freelancer adds to the genre I wouldn't WANT to do in other space sims... they're better without side-stepping, for sure!
With a joystick trigger, genious, which is quite different from a mouse... as you know. :)
Oh, and most of what Freelancer adds to the genre I wouldn't WANT to do in other space sims... they're better without side-stepping or mouse-driven gun aiming, for sure!
Okay, maybe have a auto-tracking gun (like in X-Wing Alliance how in the freighters the top and bottom guns will auto-track and fire at enemies...), but a aimable gun? Maybe... but not mouse-driven, no way. I don't know... put it on the hat-switch? That could work, if you make it some limited option and the normal one is the normal 'point at it first' thing... and of course the whole aimable gun thing would be a very different experience with a joystick controlling movement!
Guess what? They don't use joysticks in X-Wings and TIE Fighters!!
Really? I remember the TIEs have some wheel thing, but don't remember what X-Wings have... but still, joysticks are the best control scheme. They are, after all, what real fighter planes use for control...
They don't use joysticks!
Also my brother is into flying and he can attest that the cheap litle plastic joysticks that people use for flight games is nothing like the real thing. :p
Well, yeah... but they DO make some much nicer, more realistic ones... like the Saitek X36 or something. Those look a lot more like real combat plane sticks... they've also got the rudder as a seperate hand control thing too...
That's still nothing like the real thing.... ;)
But its a lot closer... and you know it. :)
But it's still so far away from the real thing that it doesn't even matter.
No, it definitely matters. Playing a flight sim with a MS Sidewinder is a very different experience than playing it with a X36...
That's because a sidewinder has very few buttons.
No, eight to ten buttons plus four axes (X, Y, Z, R) and a hat-switch is very normal for midrange sticks... that's hardly 'very few'. Its just that the more realistic ones have dozens of buttons, toggles, multiple hat switches, etc...
That is very few compared to a keyboard, dork.
A Sidewinder? Yes. But a flight stick/rudder combo? No, I wouldn't say that those have few total control options (hatswitch directions, buttons, etc) compared to keyboards... some have what, 45 or 50 controls total? More?
I'm referring to the Sidewinder and you know that.
Yeah. :)
But many Sidewinders have that M button that doubles the number you can use... :D
Oh, and for the games those sticks are for its perfect, given that generally you have one hand on the stick and the other on the keyboard...
The M button isn't the most practical thing since you have to toggle it on or off during play.
Yeah, its generally only useful on gamepads or joysticks that let you use it as button 9. :)