Tendo City

I don't like playing twitch games like those old 2D shooters. I want something like Mario Sunshine where the controls themselves aren't the challenge but rather the insane obstacles.

I love 2d shooters... hard, but a lot of fun... 2d fighting games are good too...

But while hard they are also usually fairly short, so you can beat them... unlike super long games like most 3d platformers and the like. I know I'll never get all the Shines... just like in Mario 64...

Most complaints about SMS's difficulty arise from claiming it's mostly trial and error difficulty..

Take that as you will, but it seems to play in with Darunia's account.

Well anything that you suck at and have to play over and over can be called trial and error.

You guys should read this excellent feature at N-Sider about difficulty. I think it applied to Mario Sunshine.

Why are you so ardently defending it? If watching a short, fat Italian plumber spraying water cracks you a boner and makes you sweat...if that THRILLS you, that I think you need help. It's a fucking mario game, it shouldn't be THAT hard....a mario game should never be for seasoned veterans, or people with infinite patience for the mundane, exclusively.

I gather you never played Super Mario Bros: The Lost Levels (the one in All-Stars... the version in SMBDeluxe is watered down a bit...), Darunia... :)

the only parts of mario sunshine that i thought were too hard were the damn pachinko machine and going to the top of that harbor level. the pachinko machine because it's so random and the slightest error=death. and sometimes errors were unavoidable. getting to the top of the harbor was a pain because there was a series of jumps on narrow ledges where the camera would ALWAYS change on me in mid jump, and usually made me fall. other than that i found the difficulty refreshing.

Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
Why are you so ardently defending it? If watching a short, fat Italian plumber spraying water cracks you a boner and makes you sweat...if that THRILLS you, that I think you need help. It's a fucking mario game, it shouldn't be THAT hard....a mario game should never be for seasoned veterans, or people with infinite patience for the mundane, exclusively.

Um... didn't you just say that you threw your controller down because you sucked at Mario Sunshine so badly?

I always got sweaty palms during those sub-levels, mainly because it was so easy to fall into oblivion. You see, I always get nervous from extreme heights in video games, worrying that all of my hard work will end up with me falling to my death.

Um, OB1, isn't Darunia saying that Mario games shouldn't be that hard? That's how I interpreted it anyway...

Ha, I read it as "A Mario game should be for seasoned veterans".

But yes, it should be for seasoned veterans.

It sure seemed quite clear to me that he is saying that Mario games shouldn't be for veterans... which is why I said that he probably hasn't played (or didn't like) SMB:LL/FSP (you know... how in SMBDX the (slightly easier and 4 or 5 worlds shorter (no A-D or E)) version of the gameis called "SMB For Super Players")

big guy said that he didn't think sunshine was difficult so I kind of mixed the two together.

Ah...

Big Guy and even OB1 agree with me how big of a pain of the ass getting to the top of Niko Bay was. That was the point I was making all along, but OB1 fought me until Big Guy joined me. Now OB1 agrees. It's points like that which are too hard, and unjustly.

Getting the red coins and blue coins in some places is a pain in the ass, and some of the mini-coin levels are fucking murder...the sand bird for example.

The Sandbird wasn't that bad. The strategy for accumulating all 8 coins is fairly obvious after a few tries, then it's just a matter of perfecting that strategy.

The blue coins, now THEY'RE a fucking commitment. [from what lazy implied to me] You have to keey track of how many blue coins you've already collected in each individual level, along with figuring out how many coins are in each level in the first place and thereby deducting how many left there are to find, all on top of finding all the damned things. It wouldn't be so tedious if the game at least kept track of how many blue coins in each level you've already collected and how many are left. Just a few damned counters...

Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
Getting the red coins and blue coins in some places is a pain in the ass, and some of the mini-coin levels are fucking murder...the sand bird for example.

What?! That sandbird was EASY!! I beat it in like three tries.

Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
Big Guy and even OB1 agree with me how big of a pain of the ass getting to the top of Niko Bay was. That was the point I was making all along, but OB1 fought me until Big Guy joined me. Now OB1 agrees. It's points like that which are too hard, and unjustly.

Getting the red coins and blue coins in some places is a pain in the ass, and some of the mini-coin levels are fucking murder...the sand bird for example.

When did I ever say that was tough? I didn't think that part was tough at all.

OB1: Knock it off with the fucking invincibility-I-am-god routine. It's more annoying that fucking lazy fat ass ever was.

Great Rumber: Getting the coins was easy, but after I get them, the bird tilts its wings and I fall off every time. What do you do then.

Haha, I'm flatterd you think that. However if you were to read my previous posts you would see that I did have a lot of trouble with Mario Sunshine and Metroid Prime. Most of the Mario Sunshine stuff that I found to be difficult were the sub-levels. I really didn't have a problem with getting up that high in Niko Bay. I love that part.

I finally made some progress in Metroid, for the first time in a few weeks anyway; I got past that doorin Phendrana...I realized you had to shoot a combo of missile-beam at the lock...I was looking for some super new missiles thing I never found. THEN, I took two tries to kill the giant rock monster, only to die rushing to the nearest save point.:bang:

I smoke hams.

Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
Getting the red coins and blue coins in some places is a pain in the ass, and some of the mini-coin levels are fucking murder...the sand bird for example.

I was with ya right up until the end there. You must suck even more then me! :p

Ugh, wtf... fucking sand bird can suck my balls. Keeps turing sideways and I fall off into oblivion.

Haha, I loved that mini-level. That was actually one of the few sub-levels that I only had to play two or three times to beat.

That sub-level where the tropical guys chuck you is pretty hard.

Hey... after you beat one of them, isn't there a way to return to them while still having your water pack on? Or am I dreaming that up for some weird reason...?

That's it, OB1, you've had this coming for weeks!

*Declares formal state of war on OB1*

On another note, rather than just brag about how easy it is, why doesn't someone tell me what I do at the end when I get all the coins but the bird tilts its wings and you fall?

You just have to see where it's turning and jump accordingly. There's no real strategy to it. Just good old-fashioned platforming fun!

Try going onto the Sandbird's neck and moving with that single block: it becomes a lot easier to stay on top while it's turning.

Just good old-fashioned platforming fun!

FUN isn't the word that comes to mind when I think of this level. SMS and Metroid have both assumed titles of unbelievably over-hyped games...both are too long. Metroid is repetitive, and the levels, while complex and detailed, are boring. The asshole pirates never die, as they return every time you reenter a room. The levels are too vast, etc...blah blah.

Yes, I do fully realize that in having said that I've pitted myself against everyone else here...and I stick by my opinion.

I thought the tropical chucking bonus level was more fun than hard. So long as you had yourself lined up with them correctly the throws were fine.

Oh and Darunia, the trick for the sandbird is actually VERY simple. When it turns, stand on the sand bird's SIDE. It's made out of sand BLOCKS, so that means that it's got 4 sides of perfect flatness. When the top becomes the left side during the turn, you go to the new top, what WAS the right side. The easiest place to do this is on the tail, where you can just slowly walk at the same rate the bird is turning (remember, running all the time is BAD).

Metroid too long? If anything it was too short. Enemies have always regenerated when you leave the room in every Metroid game. Why would that stop happening now? I'll leave you to your opinion though. Hope I helped ya with that bonus level.

Jellybean- SMS actually does keep track of per-level blue coins, but in a really inconvenient place. You have to go the map and place the pointer over a level. On the bottom of the screen, it shows many shines you've gotten in addition to how many blue coins you've gotten in that level. However, some levels have 20 blue coins while others have 30, so it's still annoying.

Holy crap... incentive to collect the blue coins! Thanks Nintendarse.

Oh, btw, do you know if the blue coins vary with the level mission? I mean, are there certain amounts of blue coins to each mission, or can they all be collected in one mission (excluding the sub-levels, because obviously, you'll have to change missions to collect those)?

Darunia is teh crazy.

I happen to know for a fact that some blue coins can only be gained in certain missions. Some only appear in later missions, while others are visible but can't be reached until a later mission. I must say a nice "numberCollected/maximumInLevel" would be better than just "numberCollected" when showing blue coins. For that matter, DK64 had one annoyance in that to this day I STILL don't know for certain if I have collected all the coins because I don't know the maximums to stack what I got up against. This goes for Banjo Kazooie and the mumbo tokens. It also goes for Jet Force Gemini and the ammo capacity upgrades. I would prefer it if games all told me if I had obtained it all.

Why would you care about getting all the mumbo tokens in Banjo-Kazooie? They resurrect every time you exit the level anyway... their only role is to bribe Mumbo into using his magic, and they become trivial after you've bribed him once each level, because then he just uses his magic for free.

If mumbo tokens were another necessity for progressing in the game, I think my head would explode from all the collecting. Just jiggies/notes is fine. The other items to collect resurrected when you exited the level, and were only needed for power ups/abilities, anyway.

Yup.

Um, actually they do NOT ressurect when you exit the level. I should know. Once you obtain one, it's gone.

Oh, and asking why I would care about collecting all of them when I've already accomplished what getting enough of them should do is a slap in the face to what gaming is all about! I don't do it because I'm going to accomplish something silly! I do it because it's something fun to do! Beating a game AT ALL nets you no real prize. You may get a special ending, but what does the ending get you? I never cared about getting a prize for getting all 120 stars, I just cared about getting all 120 stars.

OB1: Bite me.



Metroid too long? If anything it was too short. Enemies have always regenerated when you leave the room in every Metroid game. Why would that stop happening now?

Just because it's always been there doesn't make it right...or even fun. Metroids also never been a FPS, but they changed that. Endlessly repeating shitheads gets really tiring really fast...and I stand by it being too long.

That's it, folks. Darunia has officially gone insane.

Its long... but not too long. Way too many games these days are so short... seeing that some aren't is great. It may take me a long time to finish games like that (Uh, I might finish Metroid Prime this year...), but it's not bad at all.

Darunia has always been insane, OB1.

While I did have some initial trouble with the Sandbird, when I figured out the timing of its turns it became quite simple. Whats so difficult about climbing Noki Bay? It's all jumping. The toughest thing you have to do is fill up the pots to raise yourself up higher and do wall jumps. If you hug the wall you don't fall, and if you use your hover nozzle you can safely glide over the rolling balls of goop. You can even break a few and get the water bottles they leave behind.

Now what is TOUGH is the last level of Ricco Harbor (been a while, is that what it's called?), where you need to have Yoshi jump on fish to get across the water to the shine there. I still can't beat that damn level.

Whats so difficult about climbing Noki Bay? It's all jumping. The toughest thing you have to do is fill up the pots to raise yourself up higher and do wall jumps. If you hug the wall you don't fall, and if you use your hover nozzle you can safely glide over the rolling balls of goop. You can even break a few and get the water bottles they leave behind.

No one's saying it's impossible, it's just time consuming....to do over and over again. And I'm not talking about that part of Noki Bay, I mean the other shore where you have to bounce off the walls and you're timed.

Hmm...as I said, it's been a while since I played Sunshine so I don't recall that level. I do know that I did get every Shine from Noki Bay. The level I recall as being toughest was either cleaning Eely Mouths teeth, or getting all the red coins in the bottle.

noki bay was never too tough for me but that yoshi level with the fish was quite a bitch, but very satisfying to beat. and well designed so that if you fall, it was always your fault...it got frustrating, but it wasn't bad design. sunshine was a great game..i just would have liked more variety in the levels.

Darunia is such a baby.

No, Darunia is just greatly lacking in 'challenging game' and 'oldschool platformer' abilities... :)

I got six more sprites last night, which is the greatest augmentation since I first got the game. I virtually eliminated Noki Bay; got four from there. Eely's Mouth was simply, did it in first try and had no problem. Red coins was the same; straight-forwards, took minutes. Now that I've gotten out of the rut, I want to know:

--How do you beat the game...? In SM64, you didn't need all million stars; you got to the boss and defeated him almost at your leisure. Is it the same with SMS? How do you end it?



*Gorstoppo ambush OB1 at night in the street; break his legs, cut off his nose.*

I haven't beaten it either, but I'm guessing you get to the final area by getting all 8 shines (or is it 9...?) a level has to offer, not including blue coins and hidden shines, most of which are in Delfino Plaza anyhow.

However, as I said, I have yet to beat it, so don't take my word for it. I know lazy beat it though, with all 120 Shines no less.

Just figure out how to get up to that waterfall in the plaza, then wait until you get enough sprites for that gate to open.

*Sigh*

How very dull and upsetting. This game is a leg iron; I'm not enjoying it, I just want to get it the fuck over with. Same with Metroid.

Darunia, you've got some serious issues. You're determined to ruin just about every great video game for yourself. If you're frustrated by the difficulty of Mario Sunshine and Metroid Prime then how on earth did you survive the NES and SNES generations? You didn't start playing games with the N64, now did you?