30th July 2003, 3:51 PM
Quote:Yeah there goes that argu-- oh wait, that means absolutely nothing! You played the PC and Gameboy back then--not exactly great racing platforms. All of the best racing games at the time were out for the arcades and consoles.
Hey, lets watch OB1 ignore the part of my post that doesn't support his opinion!
Sure reading isn't the same as playing but its something...
And its not like there weren't great racing games on the PC... though admittedly they were better on consoles, its not like PC racing games were so far behind. At least not by '94...
Quote:I never said that Mario Kart isn't in the same genre as other racing games, dummy. I said that it revolutionized the genre like Mario Bros. did to platformers (well not quite that much, but still). Gradius and Wing Commander are both space shooters so they belong to the same genre. They are just in different sub-genres. Gran Turismo is a racing sim (like WC is a space sim), and Mario Kart is a cart racer (would you call it a racing sim? I sure hope not!), a completely different sub-genre. Your inability to see the major differences between Mario Kart and Gran Turismo is very sad. And then you try to downplay Mario Kart's significance because it's been copied by just about every single racing game that came after it? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!!
First, you did say Mario Kart isn't a racing game, since Wing Commander is a space simulator and Gradius a scrolling action shooter. Those are not even remotely the same genre.
Unless you say Contra is in the same genre as Doom, because in both you run and shoot stuff? Its like that, except even less similar.
Oh wow. You actually did it. You said that Gradius and Wing Commander are in the same genre. As I thought, you retreat when your position becomes untenable... In that case... WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?????? THEY HAVE N_O_T_H_I_N_G IN COMMON!!!! THEY ARE NOT IN ANY DELUSIONAL WAY IN THE SAME GENRE!
Now if you'd said "like Mario Bros. to Pitfall" I might have been closer to agreeing... I wouldn't have, because as you say it didn't change the genre its in as much as SMB, but I'd at least understand your point.
But you didn't. You said Gradius and Wing Commander.
So lets look at those games.
Gradius. Top-down, sideways-scrolling ship shooter. Fly forward and kill everything, while avoiding the obstacles. Extremely simple side-scrolling shooter where you shoot stuff before it hits you.
Wing Commander. Simulation of starfighter combat, from a somewhat but not overly arcadish perspective. Fairly deep simulation of their interpretation of starfighter combat... that gets deeper and more complex with each game in the series.
How you put these in the same genre is a total mystery to me.
At least for Gran Turismo... yes that is also a sim but it has essential themes in common with Outrun or Mario Kart -- you are in a race. You try to win that race. You have to go around a track in a car/vehicle. Similarities that clearly put them in the racing genre, however vast the differences in gameplay are.
With Gradius and Wing Commander... you are in a ship. Nothing else is even remotely in common. ('you shoot badguys' you say? Yes, but in both the way you shoot baddies and the method to playing the game is so dramatically different that there is no way its even remotely similar...)
You might have been thinking of Star Fox, because THAT is a 3d version of a Gradius-ish game. Not Wing Commander. Star Fox and Gradius ARE different subgenres of the same genre... yes, like cart racers and racing sims.
Okay. Mario Kart revolutionized the kart racer. It improved weapons from previous games, putting a wide variety of them out there to use. It used new technology to look graphically unique. Those are changes to the racing genre, sure... and Mario Kart should be recognized for that.
But it didn't virtually create or totally change a genre like Super Mario Brothers or Wing Commander. It just introduced some new and improved ideas that succeeded and, like all great games, got cloned.
Quote:Want proof? Here you go!
IGN gave Cruis'n USA a 4.0, CVG (Britain's best multiplatform mag) gave it a 1/5, Nintendojo gave it a 4/10, etc.
The average score of Cruis'n USA is 47.8%, Cruis'n World a 59.0% and Cruis'n Exotica a 56.7%. That's pretty crappy.
Oh, Gamespot gave USA a 6.1, World a 5.9, and Exotica a 5.6. And yes they didn't get much above that from other places. All I can say is that I've always felt that Cruis'n review scores were too low.