4th January 2018, 10:49 PM
Yeah, that's a definite thing about this movie, it takes TFA's setup... and drops many key points, replacing them with nothing. Beyond the basic concept of 'making a new trilogy that mimics the original' and some details about the key characters, there isn't much of a connection between these two movies, and I agree that you really can tell that different people made them.
Now, the question is, is it just 'make it up as they go' writing as you say, or is it Rian Johnson trying to 'free Star Wars from its past' by abandoning almost all of it outside of the core rebellion v. empire, Kylo v. Rey, setup? Because it seems kind of intentional, with how thoroughly he tried to subvert expectations on many fronts. If that is true, as much as I dislike some of the results, changing things up that much is kind of interesting. The movie doesn't always do exactly what you expect.
But that is only partially true. The movie is also superficial far too often, lacking the depth of previous Star Wars movies - see the very basic explanation of how the Force works, for example; absolutely full of crippling plot holes so large there barely is even a movie left if you consider them, as I said in the OP; etc. It's hard to praise a movie this lacking in depth.
So, even if the possible subversions are intentional and not accidental results of changing writers, how much does that matter? You still have a case of a movie written by a guy who decided to abandon almost every setup that the last movie created for this one, which is a pretty odd thing to do in a movie that is supposedly a sequel.
What I said is just one way in which this movie has issues, though it is a significant one. These new Star Wars movies don't explain anything very well. They seem to have been written as stories made to sell tickets, not as things actually set in the Star Wars universe. So:
- As I said, how do they actually think that the destruction of the New Republic actually is credible based on what we have seen in these two movies? Because it isn't, at all!
- Rey is absurdly, unrealistically overpowered. I know she is a strong Jedi, and that's fine, but she beats Kylo Ren the first time she's ever held a lightsaber, in TFA, and then does even better this time, and still with barely any training? Kylo can fight off Luke, but untrained Rey? Forget it! On the one hand it's good to see a strong female character in Star Wars, but this goes way overboard into the impossible.
- The hyperspace ram thing Admiral Holdo does in TLJ is impossible and does not follow the rules of how hyperspace jumps work in Star Wars. It makes for a good scene but would not work, in Star Wars' reality. The new regime (Disney) obviously does not care much about such things anymore; Lucas would have.
Etc.
Well, it's either that or it's all intentional subversion. Take your pick as to which you believe.
Now, the question is, is it just 'make it up as they go' writing as you say, or is it Rian Johnson trying to 'free Star Wars from its past' by abandoning almost all of it outside of the core rebellion v. empire, Kylo v. Rey, setup? Because it seems kind of intentional, with how thoroughly he tried to subvert expectations on many fronts. If that is true, as much as I dislike some of the results, changing things up that much is kind of interesting. The movie doesn't always do exactly what you expect.
But that is only partially true. The movie is also superficial far too often, lacking the depth of previous Star Wars movies - see the very basic explanation of how the Force works, for example; absolutely full of crippling plot holes so large there barely is even a movie left if you consider them, as I said in the OP; etc. It's hard to praise a movie this lacking in depth.
So, even if the possible subversions are intentional and not accidental results of changing writers, how much does that matter? You still have a case of a movie written by a guy who decided to abandon almost every setup that the last movie created for this one, which is a pretty odd thing to do in a movie that is supposedly a sequel.
Dark Jaguar Wrote:I get it now though.I presume you're basing this statement on more than just what I said, but how about I add some more to that anyway...
What I said is just one way in which this movie has issues, though it is a significant one. These new Star Wars movies don't explain anything very well. They seem to have been written as stories made to sell tickets, not as things actually set in the Star Wars universe. So:
- As I said, how do they actually think that the destruction of the New Republic actually is credible based on what we have seen in these two movies? Because it isn't, at all!
- Rey is absurdly, unrealistically overpowered. I know she is a strong Jedi, and that's fine, but she beats Kylo Ren the first time she's ever held a lightsaber, in TFA, and then does even better this time, and still with barely any training? Kylo can fight off Luke, but untrained Rey? Forget it! On the one hand it's good to see a strong female character in Star Wars, but this goes way overboard into the impossible.
- The hyperspace ram thing Admiral Holdo does in TLJ is impossible and does not follow the rules of how hyperspace jumps work in Star Wars. It makes for a good scene but would not work, in Star Wars' reality. The new regime (Disney) obviously does not care much about such things anymore; Lucas would have.
Etc.
Quote:I did notice one thing that really bugged me. No less than 5 times they did a plotline bait-&-switch in this movie. I'm talking about it standing on it's own mind you. They let us think Kylo might turn good, then he acts on that lead up, then nope, back to square one he's evil again. They let us think Luke's student betrayed him, thent hey flash back showing Luke betrayed his student, then they flash back again saying " nope it was the first thing after all". They let us think that woman dressed like a hunger games character is noble, then an evil general, then she's noble again. They waste our time with a sub plot involving disarming a warp space tracker only to reveal it was all pointless and never actually the plan.
Those little sub plots only existed for tension, none of them paying off in any real way.
Well, it's either that or it's all intentional subversion. Take your pick as to which you believe.