18th November 2008, 8:05 PM
And can you also come up with excuses for someplace where they say where the Ice Rod is and when you'll need it, or where the Ether Medallion is, or where the Quake Medallion is? Really?
In that case perhaps you're right, I forget (as I said, I picked up the game from the Ice Temple after not playing it in some time...). I'd gotten the Flute a long time earlier. If the people in town had said something at some point I wouldn't have remembered, and I wouldn't go back and talk to them again, or think of showing the Ocarina in front of them... they don't, generally, exactly have anything new to say, and why would I think of using that item there? I wouldn't. Maybe this one would have been less of an issue if I'd played it all at once... though I really don't think that applies for any of the others.
On a related note, my cousin also has this game for GBA... he got stuck and quit either at one of the 'you need a Medallion' parts or the 'how do you get into the Swamp of Sorrows' part. I for get one of them, but it was one of those... and I agreed that that part was annoying, because I'd gotten stuck there for a long time too (on GBA, my first time playing most of the game), and had only gotten past it with a guide, I believe. It was probably the Ether Medallion part, but I'm not certain... but that one was pretty cruel. "Yeah, you need this random item from a place near a dungeon you were in a long time ago. Hope you searched around there and found it, because otherwise we aren't telling you much of anything useful!"
My main point was that starting with LA they dramatically improved how all this stuff works in a Zelda game. LttP is an improvement over the original game, sure, because that one often had no clues at all, but it's still far, far behind anything after it.
Puzzles are good, I like puzzles. But ridiculously vague 'clues' and "just go and wander around and find stuff" isn't exactly what I want from a Zelda game... sure, the newer ones go too far towards making everything blatantly obvious, but still. This isn't good either.
And anyway, as I have said many times before, the overworld is terribly designed. It's so easy to get where you need to go next that what point is there in exploring? Not much of one, usually... and then the game punishes you for not doing something that the overworld design encourages you to not do. Um... nice. The difference here between LttP and LA, OoA, OoS, and any 3d Zelda game is vast... they learned things about what not to do with overworld design with LttP's, I think. Don't make the overworld a set of squares, make them more interesting, varied, and often connected shapes... don't let the player travel to the whole overworld right from the beginning, make the player work to explore the overworld... put barriers in the way, to add actual challenges and purpose to the exploration... carefully design the areas so everything has a purpose... and put in much more meaningful, interesting NPCs. LttP started on some of these things compared to the first game, but there was still a long way to go.
Quote:You'd know from talking to people in town that the flute boy has some connection to the old man in the bar. Once I found the flute I brought it to the bar and played it for the old man since he was asleep. He wakes up and specifically says "Play it before the windmill in town." I don't know how you could ask for a more obvious clue than that.
In that case perhaps you're right, I forget (as I said, I picked up the game from the Ice Temple after not playing it in some time...). I'd gotten the Flute a long time earlier. If the people in town had said something at some point I wouldn't have remembered, and I wouldn't go back and talk to them again, or think of showing the Ocarina in front of them... they don't, generally, exactly have anything new to say, and why would I think of using that item there? I wouldn't. Maybe this one would have been less of an issue if I'd played it all at once... though I really don't think that applies for any of the others.
On a related note, my cousin also has this game for GBA... he got stuck and quit either at one of the 'you need a Medallion' parts or the 'how do you get into the Swamp of Sorrows' part. I for get one of them, but it was one of those... and I agreed that that part was annoying, because I'd gotten stuck there for a long time too (on GBA, my first time playing most of the game), and had only gotten past it with a guide, I believe. It was probably the Ether Medallion part, but I'm not certain... but that one was pretty cruel. "Yeah, you need this random item from a place near a dungeon you were in a long time ago. Hope you searched around there and found it, because otherwise we aren't telling you much of anything useful!"
Quote:Most items in the game are hinted at somewhere, and maybe you forgot some of the clues since it was so long between your play sessions. Even unnecessary items such as the cane that creates a magical barrier can be found through exploration. In that case I found the cave with the cane but it was covered in spikes that I couldn't get past without dying. Once I found the invincibility cape I knew how to get through. It's almost like a Metroid game where you see an inaccessibile area that you can get through later after you find an item.
My main point was that starting with LA they dramatically improved how all this stuff works in a Zelda game. LttP is an improvement over the original game, sure, because that one often had no clues at all, but it's still far, far behind anything after it.
Puzzles are good, I like puzzles. But ridiculously vague 'clues' and "just go and wander around and find stuff" isn't exactly what I want from a Zelda game... sure, the newer ones go too far towards making everything blatantly obvious, but still. This isn't good either.
And anyway, as I have said many times before, the overworld is terribly designed. It's so easy to get where you need to go next that what point is there in exploring? Not much of one, usually... and then the game punishes you for not doing something that the overworld design encourages you to not do. Um... nice. The difference here between LttP and LA, OoA, OoS, and any 3d Zelda game is vast... they learned things about what not to do with overworld design with LttP's, I think. Don't make the overworld a set of squares, make them more interesting, varied, and often connected shapes... don't let the player travel to the whole overworld right from the beginning, make the player work to explore the overworld... put barriers in the way, to add actual challenges and purpose to the exploration... carefully design the areas so everything has a purpose... and put in much more meaningful, interesting NPCs. LttP started on some of these things compared to the first game, but there was still a long way to go.