24th February 2003, 8:55 PM
Quote:You crack me up. You're the exact same. When's the last time you backed out of an argument? Hypocrite.
... and my point about arguments.
Quote: On this point, I completely agree... arguments are fun! Not too productive, and they don't get anywhere, but fun...
Not exactly related, but close... I will admit that I don't change my mind very often, but I think I do it more than you do...
Quote:You caught me off guard. You never joke.
I do joke... you just don't seem capable of recognising when what I say is a joke even when I make it very obvious... I was just saying that D&D itsself obviously isn't 90% of PC RPGs... but D&D ones? Yeah, probably. But unlike you I consider that a good thing...
Quote:I know of a few dozen developers that would disagree with you on that. And you've contradicted yourself again. DJ said that TPM wasn't innovative because it looked like an evolved form of previous special effects, even though you and I know that's not true. Doom 3 and WW are similar to TPM in that way.
I don't know the technical details of Doom 3... it probably is innovative in whatever very small amount a 3d engine that builds on a decade of 3d engines can be, which isn't much, really... its just building on whats been done to make a resulting product that is the best looking graphics engine ever designed. As for TPM, if I'd just based it on the movie alone I might have agreed with DJ, but after watching the second disks and commentary tracks of the DVD I know a lot about what went into making it, making that impossible... so I'm agreeing with you by basing my opinion on something that DJ specifically said he was not considering: The technical details... though just based on the movie I have to say I'd still choose Star Wars over Matrix... probably just the Star Wars fan in me. :)
Quote:*sigh* Failed to pay attention again, eh? Even after I repeating the words "visually innovative" over and over.
I know... I was just saying that graphical innovation is a lot less important than gameplay innovation is, and it doesn't innovate gameplay...
Quote:As I said before (boy, you sure make me say that a lot), that's the best KH I could find in such short time. And I used that Wind Waker image (which is not an in-game screen, but does show you the actual models used in the game) because all of the WW screen shots look blurry. Very few gamecube screen shots look good. It has something to do with the screen shot capturing ability of the Gamecube (or lack therof). Ign commented on that a few times in the past, but I forgot the details.
Then can someone find some better screenshots to compare? I'm sure there are some out there...
On the topic of whether its harder to render cel-shading with or without the black lines... I really don't know myself, so I'll have to believe what I read here... which isn't much. I don't know which way is easier. I'd just assume that with the lines would be easier because up till now all celshaded games used it...
Quote:I don't see how it's wrong. While not all cel-shaded games have the aim to look like a cartoon (JSRF, TFLO), games have been made with the distinct effort of making it as cartoon-esque as possible. Zelda may be the first to pull it off effectively, but again, that's just an extension and improvement over what's been done before.
Doing it better is not innovation.
Yup. Though it isn't exactly that simple, in general that is true...
Quote:But all that is basically what other movies have been doing for years, it's just an improved version of it. There have been realistic looking CGI characters (dinosaurs, terminators, aliens), photo realistic CGI backgrounds and settings have been done before.
Digital stunt doubles, perhaps. But that's basically just CGI characters in an action pose.
It's basically what other movies have been doing for years, just better, and more of it.
Got to disagree here... TPM did so much more than previous movies that it was a truly innovative use of CG and adding CG to movies. Sure it'd been used before, but not nearly as much or as well as it was used in TPM... the improvement was dramatic enough to be innovative.
Not so for WW or Doom 3, though... they aren't as huge steps. Doom 3's a bigger one than WW, but that one is at best just barely innnovative and probably better classified as doing what it can to exploit the newest hardware... if that counts as innovation it might be a little bit, but it shouldn't count for much.
WW, I think I've said my opinion on that one enough now.