3rd May 2004, 9:58 PM
That's a lot of text, and as such I forget what you were talking about at the start trying to remember the stuff at the end. I have low uh... uh...
Bender: Memory?
DJ?: Oh great, now I remember that but I forgot my name!
Odd way of armor working. In every game I played before a d20 based game, armor determined the defense stat (which was used to calculate how much damage you took), but armor is purely for determining hits and misses here.
As far as critical hits, it's the NORMAL :D way of doing critical hits. Multiply whatever damage the attack would have done by 2. Some weapons in a few games did it a little differently, like one weapon that did 4x damage on a critical.
Then again, I think that's one of the main differences between d20 and Japanese RPGs. d20 uses a bunch of whole numbers and nothing but. However, the average Japanese RPG uses percentages for just about everything. So, rather than something like "defense is 18, so you have to get a 19 or higher in order to hit", it's more like "evasion is 10%" (that's dodge rate, defense, as it SHOULD be :D, is how much damage you take, not the chance of damage), which means if you have 100% accuracy, you will hit 90% of the time. Again, this still puts some chance in there, but it doesn't make itself so very apparent.
Here's the thing. When, as you have put it, I miss as much as I hit, I feel very put off. A slight adjustment in chance and I've hit every time, or another slight adjustment of pure chance and I've missed every time. Sure, the AVERAGE means I'll do as my stats say I should more often than not, but a single battle won't hit that average perfectly, and if there's only a few, none of the battles may be near that average.
As you said, you haven't played a 3rd edition game yet, so I'll explain some things to you about that now from my own experience. Yes, you can upgrade your stats, your BASE stats, on level up, without using items or equipment. Not EVERY level gives you a stat increase, like in Japanese RPGs. Generally, you'll level up and depending on the level, you'll get whatever you are supposed to get for it. For example, you may get the chance to learn a new feat or two, or increase various special abilities like Persuasion. WITH that, is the occasional chance to boost your base stats themselves. On some levels, you get 1 or 2 points you can use to boost a base stat permanently. Now, I assume in D&D, it's a random roll to determine where these points go, but in Neverwinter Nights, just like in assigning the starting stats on a character, you are allowed to pick and choose yourself. I am SO glad for that because, again, I like to be in control. Yes, it IS a control issue :D.
Anyway, I never really had a problem with anything else that d20 does. Not sure why you would bring it up. Really, everything else about the system is pretty fun, like the ability to customize a character as it develops rather than juse at the start. Multiclassing is fun too.
KOTOR, so you know, uses MP, well it's FP actually (Force Points). All the spells you have are permanently learned. Force power regenerates over time.
Neverwinter, using 3.5 rules, has an interesting system. It's actually very much like FF1. You can learn every single spell in the game, but you have to "equip" them, and there are limited slots for that. Each and every single spell has it's own individual MP, and that MP cost is determined by it's spell "level". So, it's kinda like FF1 in that regard, only with a similar MP system to FF8. Like you said, you "rest" in order to recover HP and get some magic back. Thing is, as far as I can tell, the only punishment for "resting" is that you are vulnerable. No matter, that's probably enough, it's just boring to rest, hence why I like stocking up on potions and ether.
Anyway, as I said, the only issue I ever had is with the whole focus on random chance near the start. I know I know, it's sorta forced due to the way all the stats are calculated in this sort of game. It's just annoying. I'd prefer if it played less of a role is all.
Let me explain what I meant about "defeating a key part of the system". What I mean is that when you get to really high levels, the stat numbers are also really high. As such, a variable of 20 doesn't matter nearly as much as it did when you had a lower level and lower stats. At higher levels, you'll still do massive damage, and a change of 20 in that attack won't really matter at all. Essentially, I'd just like it if the lower levels depended as much on pure stats as the higher levels. Chance is still there of course, and at the higher levels I really don't even mind that much, but it's not the determining factor. Yes, if things ALWAYS hit exactly where the average SHOULD be, my stats would be the primary thing, but on those lower levels, VERY often I'll get my arse handed to me JUST as often as I hand arse over to the enemy, the SAME enemy in fact. It's THAT sort of thing that drives me nuts. Thing is, the only way to get around it is to get my level significantly higher than the enemy's at that point in the game, and that means FIGHTING them over and over, and in that case it also means reloading my old game over and over.
Now, to address those things you said about console games. How DARE you bring up VERY good points?! :D
Yeah, the enemies tend to be given some sucky moves and some super awesome moves, and then they use the sucky moves most of the time. In the case of really old Japanese RPGs, like FF1, it goes PURELY on a cycle, and it'll always go in order from move to move on the list. In the case of current day RPGs of that style, they tend to be random, but then you start noticing patterns that are JUST consistent enough to make you wonder if there's some simple AI deciding what moves to make... Anyway, a lot of them DO use randomness, and yes I do prefer when some AI is used to determine what move to perform at a time. Still, that'll leave a chunk of the moves they tend to give the baddies completely unused. That just means they'll put more work into the moves and the AI though doesn' it? :D
Anyway, it all comes down to taste. I do enjoy those kinds of RPGs, don't get me wrong, it's just that I hate how near the start victory is very often an issue of randomness when you come up to anything of moderate difficulty. Think of it like how you can't stand random encounters. I respect that opinion because I see your point there for example, it's just something I personally never had a problem with.
Bender: Memory?
DJ?: Oh great, now I remember that but I forgot my name!
Odd way of armor working. In every game I played before a d20 based game, armor determined the defense stat (which was used to calculate how much damage you took), but armor is purely for determining hits and misses here.
As far as critical hits, it's the NORMAL :D way of doing critical hits. Multiply whatever damage the attack would have done by 2. Some weapons in a few games did it a little differently, like one weapon that did 4x damage on a critical.
Then again, I think that's one of the main differences between d20 and Japanese RPGs. d20 uses a bunch of whole numbers and nothing but. However, the average Japanese RPG uses percentages for just about everything. So, rather than something like "defense is 18, so you have to get a 19 or higher in order to hit", it's more like "evasion is 10%" (that's dodge rate, defense, as it SHOULD be :D, is how much damage you take, not the chance of damage), which means if you have 100% accuracy, you will hit 90% of the time. Again, this still puts some chance in there, but it doesn't make itself so very apparent.
Here's the thing. When, as you have put it, I miss as much as I hit, I feel very put off. A slight adjustment in chance and I've hit every time, or another slight adjustment of pure chance and I've missed every time. Sure, the AVERAGE means I'll do as my stats say I should more often than not, but a single battle won't hit that average perfectly, and if there's only a few, none of the battles may be near that average.
As you said, you haven't played a 3rd edition game yet, so I'll explain some things to you about that now from my own experience. Yes, you can upgrade your stats, your BASE stats, on level up, without using items or equipment. Not EVERY level gives you a stat increase, like in Japanese RPGs. Generally, you'll level up and depending on the level, you'll get whatever you are supposed to get for it. For example, you may get the chance to learn a new feat or two, or increase various special abilities like Persuasion. WITH that, is the occasional chance to boost your base stats themselves. On some levels, you get 1 or 2 points you can use to boost a base stat permanently. Now, I assume in D&D, it's a random roll to determine where these points go, but in Neverwinter Nights, just like in assigning the starting stats on a character, you are allowed to pick and choose yourself. I am SO glad for that because, again, I like to be in control. Yes, it IS a control issue :D.
Anyway, I never really had a problem with anything else that d20 does. Not sure why you would bring it up. Really, everything else about the system is pretty fun, like the ability to customize a character as it develops rather than juse at the start. Multiclassing is fun too.
KOTOR, so you know, uses MP, well it's FP actually (Force Points). All the spells you have are permanently learned. Force power regenerates over time.
Neverwinter, using 3.5 rules, has an interesting system. It's actually very much like FF1. You can learn every single spell in the game, but you have to "equip" them, and there are limited slots for that. Each and every single spell has it's own individual MP, and that MP cost is determined by it's spell "level". So, it's kinda like FF1 in that regard, only with a similar MP system to FF8. Like you said, you "rest" in order to recover HP and get some magic back. Thing is, as far as I can tell, the only punishment for "resting" is that you are vulnerable. No matter, that's probably enough, it's just boring to rest, hence why I like stocking up on potions and ether.
Anyway, as I said, the only issue I ever had is with the whole focus on random chance near the start. I know I know, it's sorta forced due to the way all the stats are calculated in this sort of game. It's just annoying. I'd prefer if it played less of a role is all.
Let me explain what I meant about "defeating a key part of the system". What I mean is that when you get to really high levels, the stat numbers are also really high. As such, a variable of 20 doesn't matter nearly as much as it did when you had a lower level and lower stats. At higher levels, you'll still do massive damage, and a change of 20 in that attack won't really matter at all. Essentially, I'd just like it if the lower levels depended as much on pure stats as the higher levels. Chance is still there of course, and at the higher levels I really don't even mind that much, but it's not the determining factor. Yes, if things ALWAYS hit exactly where the average SHOULD be, my stats would be the primary thing, but on those lower levels, VERY often I'll get my arse handed to me JUST as often as I hand arse over to the enemy, the SAME enemy in fact. It's THAT sort of thing that drives me nuts. Thing is, the only way to get around it is to get my level significantly higher than the enemy's at that point in the game, and that means FIGHTING them over and over, and in that case it also means reloading my old game over and over.
Now, to address those things you said about console games. How DARE you bring up VERY good points?! :D
Yeah, the enemies tend to be given some sucky moves and some super awesome moves, and then they use the sucky moves most of the time. In the case of really old Japanese RPGs, like FF1, it goes PURELY on a cycle, and it'll always go in order from move to move on the list. In the case of current day RPGs of that style, they tend to be random, but then you start noticing patterns that are JUST consistent enough to make you wonder if there's some simple AI deciding what moves to make... Anyway, a lot of them DO use randomness, and yes I do prefer when some AI is used to determine what move to perform at a time. Still, that'll leave a chunk of the moves they tend to give the baddies completely unused. That just means they'll put more work into the moves and the AI though doesn' it? :D
Anyway, it all comes down to taste. I do enjoy those kinds of RPGs, don't get me wrong, it's just that I hate how near the start victory is very often an issue of randomness when you come up to anything of moderate difficulty. Think of it like how you can't stand random encounters. I respect that opinion because I see your point there for example, it's just something I personally never had a problem with.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)