5th May 2004, 11:04 AM
Actually, the quote system is hard to use, a whole lot of copying and pasting that I just don't want to do. :D
You know what I'm talking about most of the time though so I really don't need to quote do I?
Anyway, regarding NWN, it's NOT just one player. You are INTENDED to party up with other people online to play the game, so you can have a standard size party, but everyone is a human rather than just one human controlling everyone. The last expansion's campaign, sadly, doesn't allow this outside of a hack, which means you are right about that one. Thing is, you really need to make sure you can trust whoever you drag in, because something like this really requires some decent communication and friendship to work.
Here's something I actually DO have to quote (I'll never quote each and every time, I figure the other person has a good enough memory to know what they have said before and all I have to do is make sure they know what I'm responding to, and that above paragraph, it should be obvious what I'm responding to).
No, I wouldn't say that. I AGREED with you and we WERE talking about the same thing. Yes, I DO agree that the enemies should use better strategies. I agree that their move sets should either be altered so that all the moves are equally good, or the AI should be improved so the enemy knows exactly what move to use in a given situation. Some Japanese RPGs do do this, but not enough really. I agree with you here.
About stats, you are telling me my HP is RANDOMLY GENERATED?! Arg! *destroys a galaxy* You see? This is what I hate right here. They KNOW I'm just going to reload over and over if I know that until I get the best bonus I can, so why, OH WHY, would they even BOTHER with such an assinine system? It's just ANNOYING, not fun. It's like the stats in FF4 actually, and there's a reason they didn't do that at all after that game. Rather, they came up with a different system which actually depends on the player's skills to determine that instead of "DICE ROLL!". In FF6 and FF8, they have various items that give "stat bonuses" to the character if they are equipped when that character levels up. That way, a character can be in control of stat bonuses to a degree, all depending on how many of these special things they found. In FF6, it's esper bonuses. If you want a fast character, equip the Esper Odin around level up, and if you want more HP, equip Bahamut. It's all fixed so you never have to deal with the annoyance of the random element on level up. FF8 used the Guardian Forces which could learn special stat upgrade abilities that you could equip near level up.
Look, in the end, I care more about having fun than the game trying to be realistic. I know I know, if me and the enemy are evenly matched in stats, there really is a chance it could go either way. However, I don't like that chance being taken out of MY hands and placed in that of dice. I prefer me, totally me, to be responsible for how I do. When I am forced to sorta sit back and watch while the random throws determine the outcome of battle, I get annoyed.
Now then, you comment on how you still don't understand what I mean by defeating the system later on in the game. Lemme put it this way. In early levels, when your attack and defense is like 9 or 10 max, a variable of 20 makes all the difference in the world. Whatever you do, it could be anything from totally awesome attack to the enemy, or complete failure. However, once you reach level "awesome", your stats are near the hundreds for everything, a variable of 20 has very little effect. It's still THERE, but it's been delegated to a much smaller roll. As a result, stats really DO determine the winner and in an even match, unless your strategies are better, both you and the opponent will die at about the same time. In any d20 based game, I always look forward to my stats finally being able to make the roll of 20 take a back seat to pure strategy, stats, and moves.
Again, it's obvious you enjoy it. Don't take this as a "it's obvious you enjoy... TEH SUCK!1!" statement. I'm not saying you have bad tastes, just that mine are different. A VERY similar thing to this complaint of mine is yours against random battles. I don't really mind them at all, but you have a huge problem with them. I don't take it that you have better tastes than me, just different. I myself just don't enjoy, as I see it, having the control of the outcomes of battle taken away from me near the start. For you, it's all about playing with probabilities, playing the luck game at that point in the game for all it's worth. I've just never enjoyed that at all. With that, I think we've explained our opinions on this enough to get a good idea of each of our tastes. I believe we can put this to rest now.
You know what I'm talking about most of the time though so I really don't need to quote do I?
Anyway, regarding NWN, it's NOT just one player. You are INTENDED to party up with other people online to play the game, so you can have a standard size party, but everyone is a human rather than just one human controlling everyone. The last expansion's campaign, sadly, doesn't allow this outside of a hack, which means you are right about that one. Thing is, you really need to make sure you can trust whoever you drag in, because something like this really requires some decent communication and friendship to work.
Here's something I actually DO have to quote (I'll never quote each and every time, I figure the other person has a good enough memory to know what they have said before and all I have to do is make sure they know what I'm responding to, and that above paragraph, it should be obvious what I'm responding to).
Quote:You miss my point, kinda. What would be most realistic is if they used what they have available. Now you say 'but if they did I'd NEVER win'! But that's my point exactly. It's really stupid to design it so you only win battles because the enemies are incompetent! D&D doesn't work that way. Okay, so enemies might not always use the best possible spells, but they do use a lot of them, and enough variety that you know that they're using up what they have... at least, I never felt like I was just winning battles because the enemy held back their best moves. Against really strong enemies who you probably should not be fighting yet they don't hold back... defeating one of those Demons took quite a few tries...
No, I wouldn't say that. I AGREED with you and we WERE talking about the same thing. Yes, I DO agree that the enemies should use better strategies. I agree that their move sets should either be altered so that all the moves are equally good, or the AI should be improved so the enemy knows exactly what move to use in a given situation. Some Japanese RPGs do do this, but not enough really. I agree with you here.
About stats, you are telling me my HP is RANDOMLY GENERATED?! Arg! *destroys a galaxy* You see? This is what I hate right here. They KNOW I'm just going to reload over and over if I know that until I get the best bonus I can, so why, OH WHY, would they even BOTHER with such an assinine system? It's just ANNOYING, not fun. It's like the stats in FF4 actually, and there's a reason they didn't do that at all after that game. Rather, they came up with a different system which actually depends on the player's skills to determine that instead of "DICE ROLL!". In FF6 and FF8, they have various items that give "stat bonuses" to the character if they are equipped when that character levels up. That way, a character can be in control of stat bonuses to a degree, all depending on how many of these special things they found. In FF6, it's esper bonuses. If you want a fast character, equip the Esper Odin around level up, and if you want more HP, equip Bahamut. It's all fixed so you never have to deal with the annoyance of the random element on level up. FF8 used the Guardian Forces which could learn special stat upgrade abilities that you could equip near level up.
Look, in the end, I care more about having fun than the game trying to be realistic. I know I know, if me and the enemy are evenly matched in stats, there really is a chance it could go either way. However, I don't like that chance being taken out of MY hands and placed in that of dice. I prefer me, totally me, to be responsible for how I do. When I am forced to sorta sit back and watch while the random throws determine the outcome of battle, I get annoyed.
Now then, you comment on how you still don't understand what I mean by defeating the system later on in the game. Lemme put it this way. In early levels, when your attack and defense is like 9 or 10 max, a variable of 20 makes all the difference in the world. Whatever you do, it could be anything from totally awesome attack to the enemy, or complete failure. However, once you reach level "awesome", your stats are near the hundreds for everything, a variable of 20 has very little effect. It's still THERE, but it's been delegated to a much smaller roll. As a result, stats really DO determine the winner and in an even match, unless your strategies are better, both you and the opponent will die at about the same time. In any d20 based game, I always look forward to my stats finally being able to make the roll of 20 take a back seat to pure strategy, stats, and moves.
Again, it's obvious you enjoy it. Don't take this as a "it's obvious you enjoy... TEH SUCK!1!" statement. I'm not saying you have bad tastes, just that mine are different. A VERY similar thing to this complaint of mine is yours against random battles. I don't really mind them at all, but you have a huge problem with them. I don't take it that you have better tastes than me, just different. I myself just don't enjoy, as I see it, having the control of the outcomes of battle taken away from me near the start. For you, it's all about playing with probabilities, playing the luck game at that point in the game for all it's worth. I've just never enjoyed that at all. With that, I think we've explained our opinions on this enough to get a good idea of each of our tastes. I believe we can put this to rest now.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)