The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread

[A Black Falcon]

Er... go to a big island. Look at the minimap. You see three main colors -- blue water, light green areas you can go to, and the dark green (I think) areas that aren't actually game land, they are just parts of the island that for some reason you can't visit.

And those parts don't count in land area.

Darunia... the two games are layed out so differently its very hard to compare. WW has LOTS of small islands... dozens. When you add all of them and the larger ones together its a fair sized land... but still, I probably agree that it'd be smaller than OoT.

[OB1]

There are 42 islands in the game, some big and some small.

[A Black Falcon]

True. But most are small. As I said... it seems close. I'd need more info to really know which is bigger... but OoT well might be it.

[OB1]

Oot is definitely a lot smaller. I just went and checked the other day because of this debate.

[A Black Falcon]

I played some OoT too (finished Dodongo's Cavern and went to Zora's Domain) and yeah, it isn't especially large. But neither is WW when you subtract all the water and leave just the land you can actually visit in.

[OB1]

It's still a lot bigger than OoT's Hyrule. And I still don't know what you're talking about when you say "dark areas you can't visit". The dark areas on the map are just higher levels. You can get to just about every part of each island by using your deku leaf or grappling hook.

[A Black Falcon]

Sure, you can get to almost every point in the map that has been mapped... that is true.

But look at Dragon Roost Isle. Note how small the area you can actually go on is compared to the large size of the island. Outset Island has a large area you can't actually go in too. And the destroyed island, and some others...

And OoT is good sized. WW might be bigger, but I'm not sure... its so, so hard to judge. But OoT is big enough that it might be larger.

[OB1]

Uh, have you gotten the deku leaf yet? You can fly to different parts on Dragon Roost once you get the leaf. And I'll say this one more time: The total reachable land area in WW is definitely larger than the total reachable land area in OoT. There is no question about it.

[A Black Falcon]

Yes, I have the leaf and the grappling hook. I have beaten Tower of the Gods, after all... :)

And still haven't died. This feels almost on par (easier, but somewhat close) to how hard OoT is... ON MY THIRD TIME THROUGH!

Zelda games do get a LOT easier on repeat playing, but the FIRST time is supposed to be hard! This one just ... isn't.

[Dark Jaguar]

Weird how there are 3 Greater Gods, and then the lesser beings that seem to have been created by them to help guide Hyrule (like the wind gods and possibly the time God from MM) also called gods eh? Maybe it's all in the capitalization. Been a while since I played, but I'll play again and see if it's the capitalization of it that seperates the two.

[A Black Falcon]

What's wrong with different levels of gods all being called gods? Its not exactly rare or anything...

[Dark Jaguar]

Just a tad confusing. Even the greeks made the higher ones be called Titans, and in Silmarillion the lesser ones were called the valar.

[A Black Falcon]

You had a lot of gods. They did have different classifications, though... but I'd say this does too -- the three main ones are set apart from the ones like the wind god, I'd say...

[Dark Jaguar]

Yeah, and I think the capitalization thing is actually the case, THINK that is. Oh well, they are certainly set apart in how they are referenced. After all, Ganon is certainly more interested in the 3 top ones than the wind ones that are actually ON this world which he could go after at any time.

[A Black Falcon]

Well gods that created the world are juuust a bit more intresting than ones that blow around the wind, i'd say. :)

[Dark Jaguar]

Especially if the creators created the ones that are blowing the wind around :D.

[A Black Falcon]

Which is probably true. :)

[Dark Jaguar]

Kinda has to be, since wind and the sky didn't even exist until Nayru poored the spirit of law upon the land, and then suddenly sky and clouds and wind appeared, so a god of it couldn't even exist. Most likely they were created to help guide in steed of the 3.

For that matter, I think the 3 are actually a trinity, existing as one and 3 all at once, considering that the triforce is a symbol of them and it exists like that.

[A Black Falcon]

Three goddesses, but when they combine they become super-powerful!

Like Captain Planet... except not really, really stupid. :)

[Dark Jaguar]

Hmm, perhaps, but I think it's rather that they exist as three and as one all at once. Why? Because it's more fantastical!

[Darunia]

Well, back to the point of a few posts ago, OoT is larger than WW. Thank you, and good night.

---Darunia S. Goron (aka Barry).

[OB1]

Boy you sure showed us!

[A Black Falcon]

Yeah, that's definitely solid proof one way or the other...

[OB1]

Well I actually walked around the entire landscape of OoT and WW, timing how long it look to run around each area. WW is definitely bigger.

[A Black Falcon]

You think? But a lot of OoT areas at least feel bigger than their WW equilivants... but because of the other dozens of islands WW probably is larger -- those 30-something islands are probably bigger than Hyrule Field...

But still, I have doubts. None of WW's islands are all that big... and areas in WW don't feel larger than similar areas in OoT, for sure...

[OB1]

Well you know what, go ahead and believe whatever you want. I know the truth, but can't force you to believe anything you refuse to accept.

[Darunia]

Come on now...Hyrule Field, the space between the castle and the back of the town, Lake Hylia, the vast desert, the canyon...there is so much more of it. The desert, Lake Hylia and Hyrule Field alone probably consamate all of WW-dom.

[EdenMaster]

Originally posted by Darunia
probably

Probably means you're not sure. You're being awfully adamant about something you're not sure of.

[OB1]

I am sure though. Every location in OoT is very small! And Darunia mentions Lake Hylia, even though we were talking about land-only areas. Hey OoT has a little lake? Neat! But WW has a huge ocean! Even if you got rid of the enormous ocean in WW the overworld would still be bigger than OoT's.

And the ocean is so cool---I don't get why ABF and others hate it so much. It's Zelda with pirate-type stuff! It's just so fun and adventerous and really gives the game a size and scope that was completely missing in past games with their tiny overworlds. Plus there is fighting on the ocean, so it's not like it doesn't count or anything like that. But whatever, if you guys don't like it then too bad for you. Your loss.

[A Black Falcon]

OB1, land area means ALL THE LAND. Not just land in some areas -- ALL of it. So it includes the Lake Hylia area. Especially since you can walk on the bottom of the lake! I'd say that that counts as land you can visit... :)

It is also very dissapointing to see that WW has so much water and NO DIVING! NONE! What were they thinking?

Fighting on the ocean? Not much, and what there is is very easily avoided or ignored... it is pretty much irrelevant and trivial... sort of like Hyrule Field, but worse. :)

I don't hate the ocean... I just find that it gets dull when you sail back and forth, back and forth...

[OB1]

Even when you include Lake Hylia the world is a lot smaller than WW's. Lake Hylia is very small.

And you hit the nail on the head with that Hyrule Field comment. The ocean is a lot like Hyrule Field, just a few hundred times bigger. So of course there are far fewer enemy encounters per square meter. But I sure as hell prefer the open seas to tiny little Hyrule Field.

This argument is pretty pointless. A lot of you decided to hate WW from the beginning and weren't going to be happy with it no matter what, so I really don't care. I'll just be sitting back here enjoying some of the best games ever made while you guys bitch and moan about the most insignificant of "problems".

*hums*

[A Black Falcon]

OB1, some of the problems with the game for some people are a lot bigger than "insignificant". But you'd never admit that.

[OB1]

Admit what? That you guys have different opinions? I acknowledge that. If you guys like to ruin great games for yourselves, go ahead and do it. I really don't care. But we're talking about something objective, which is land size. You and Darunia are wrong about it, simple as that. I actually spent a lot of time comparing the two areas and found out the correct answer. Neither of you did that, yet you still refuse to change your stance on it. You are the stubborn one, ABF. You and Darunia. Stubborn and hypocritical.

[A Black Falcon]

That when you find a game bad, saying its bad isn't ruining it for yourself -- its stating that you find those flaws of much greater importance for you to have fun in the game than you (OB1) put on them.

And I'm still not sure bcause WW's areas aren't very large at all... but yeah, it probably is bigger in land area.

But not by much.

[OB1]

It's not bigger by a whole lot, but it is bigger.

And say what you want about Zelda, but you did decide to dislike it before you even played it. Hell, you even bashed it in this very thread when all you played was the little demo! So don't try to tell me that you started playing it with open arms. And Darunia... well... I don't think I have to comment on him. ;) Anyhow, this topic is useless and I don't want to argue any further on it.

[Darunia]

This argument is pretty pointless. A lot of you decided to hate WW from the beginning and weren't going to be happy with it no matter what, so I really don't care.

Au contraire, you decided from the beginning that you'd blindly defend WW, regardless of it's imperfections.

You and Darunia are wrong about it, simple as that.

Oh...well with such a convincing argument, I concede to your overwhelming logic.

I actually spent a lot of time comparing the two areas and found out the correct answer.

I'm sure you did.

You and Darunia. Stubborn and hypocritical.

Talk about the cat calling the kettle black.

[OB1]

Au contraire, you decided from the beginning that you'd blindly defend WW, regardless of it's imperfections.

I would never defend a game that I didn't like. I just didn't have any biases against the game before it came out, like so many of you people did. If I didn't like it then I would have said so. I was really looking forward to Pikmin but was dissapointed by its length and I made that clear. I was also looking forward to DK64 before it came out and expressed by dissapointment with it after I played it.

Oh...well with such a convincing argument, I concede to your overwhelming logic.

Ah yes, the only way you can argue with someone is to quote only part of his argument. Well played, Darunia. Well played.

I'm sure you did.

Yes, I did.

Talk about the cat calling the kettle black.

Prove me wrong, why don't you?

[Dark Jaguar]

Um, Darunia, what does the cat calling the kettle black mean? That's a very twisted form of the classic expression indeed. I mean, most cats aren't black (then again, most pots these days aren't black either, at least not totally, but anyway...). The proper expression is "pot calling the kettle black".

You are like the stereotypical anime character that always gets expressions wrong. New attribute aquired: Darunia wearned: Incorrect Expressionosity.

[OB1]

[A Black Falcon]

Sure, I did decide from the first time I saw that Spaceworld demo that I disliked the graphics. That is true. And while, I admit, they turned out better than I expected, I'd still have preferred it sticking closer to OoT...

But there are legitimate complaints for some people -- difficulty, graphics, all the sailing, etc...

[OB1]

Pfft, you didn't even like ALttP. Shame on you! :nono:

:shake:

[A Black Falcon]

That makes it sound like I disliked the game... and that is not true, not true at all. I liked it. I just think Zelda is best with a somewhat less cartoony graphic style. :)

[Darunia]

Perhaps it's a regional New England term. One way or another, it's real.

Is it my imagination or did DJ just jump to OB1's side, when OB1 himself didn't do much better than pass off a few insults?

[A Black Falcon]

I've always heard it as 'pot calling the kettle black' too.

[Dark Jaguar]

You may have just heard it wrong and just thought it was that your whole life.

Anyway, how am I on OB1's side? Personal attacks have nothing to do with the heart of any debate. I'm staying out of the debate.

[Darunia]

Still, you attacked me as opposed to OB1. Fascinating. What'd he give you---money? Cars? A blowjob? Anywhoo, OB1 has absolutely no way of proving his point. Nor do we. He can say he walked or sailed or did WHATEVER around the entire perimeters of both games (sure he did), but we'll never know, and I still firmly believe that OoT had much, much more walking space. And more dungeons. And more types of enemies. And slightly better music (though WW did have some good hits...Windfall Island and the eerie Wind Temple being two.)

[A Black Falcon]

More dungeons, yes. More walking? Obviously! OoT you walk everywhere, not sail... :)

More enemy types? Maybe, because of the additional dungeons... but there are fewer of them, by far. OoT's enemies are spread out... because of the capabilities of the N64. MM did more, because of the additional RAM, but OoT has fewer. In the overworld especially... after the overworlds in the 2d games where you spent a LOT of time adventuring and fighting people there, it was somewhat jarring to go to OoT where you did very little in the overworld, really... just running around. With few enemies. It wasn't bad, really... just different.

As for music, in WW I think that the sailing part badly needs more music... a lot of the time there is none, and when there is there's just this one song that loops over and over...

[Dark Jaguar]

Pardon? OB1 didn't get an expression wrong, you did. I wasn't even taking sides here. What I said is completely outside of this debate utterly. Had you said something like that outside this thread, I would have called it all the same, only there you would have no way to say I took sides. I mean really, I called someone (maybe OB1, I forget who) for saying the ridiculous phrase "made with currently existing technology" a while back. I know this is exactly what you want me to say, but I will anyway. You really do think only in military terms. In that case, just take me as the uncooperative non-combatant.

[OB1]

Darunia: Look, since you obviously aren't going to take my word for it, why don't you time yourself walking over every piece of land in Oot and WW and see which one takes longer. But you're not going to do it because you're lazy, right? Well then you lose this argument.

[Darunia]

In that case, just take me as the uncooperative non-combatant.

No, I'd prefer to think of you as a third wheel inserting his word where it's not wanted.

But you're not going to do it because you're lazy, right? Well then you lose this argument.

So, anyone who doesn't dust off their N64, and spend hours walking at a tiny pace around the entire perimeter of Ocarina of Time, and then again on all 40+ islands of WW is lazy...? Sounds to me that anyone who would do that is a loser who needs a life. Even if one were to do it, there'd be no way to prove it, and one's word is all that'd stand. Yours means nothing to me. Do I lose this argument? How so, because I won't walk all around the perimeters of two huge RPGs? You'll never know if I do or not, nor I of you. Will I lose this? No. If you would like to think I did, by all means, go away.