Various stuffs about FF

[Bo Jackson]

who wants to buy my copy of ffiv advance from me? i bought it, played it for a bit, then remembered how much i hated random battles.

[Dark Jaguar]

I already own the game, and also the PS1 version, and also I'm terrified I actually WILL be buying the DS version when it comes out.

Did you buy the game JUST to make that joke?

[Bo Jackson]

No, it was on sale late last year and I bought it.

[Dark Jaguar]

Ah the sale. The key thing to remember is that you save even MORE money when you don't buy it at all. :D It's that secret THEY don't want you to know.

[Bo Jackson]

'tis true!

[Dark Jaguar]

Actually on retrospect this is really not about FFVI, I think I'll go ahead and move this into TC.

[EdenMaster]

who wants to buy my copy of ffiv advance from me? i bought it, played it for a bit, then remembered how much i hated random battles.

I won't dignify this with response. Oops, I already did. Well, as long as I've gone this far...

Sheesh whats the big deal? I'm sure this will spark the umpteenth time we've had this <i>very same</i> argument, but come on now. Yes, yes I've played all sorts of RPGs where the enemies freely roam instead of randomly spawn, but I honestly didn't like the system so much that I am simply unable to return to a classic like FFIV simply due to the random battles. You're cheating yourself out of replaying one of the all-time greats for some minor detail.

[Great Rumbler]

Bo-B1: Man, I hate random battles so much. *buys FFIV Advance* Wait a minute...WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH ME?!

Me: ...

[Dark Jaguar]

Personally I think that game development does need to eventually ditch random encounters in favor of pre-placed enemies you can avoid (or at least randomly spawning enemies on the map you can still avoid, ala Zelda 2 or Ultima Exodus).

THAT SAID, I don't have much issue dealing with them when I play the classics. They can get annoying sometimes but the majority of the time it's fine and I just enjoy the experience.

Basically if you want to sell your game, that's fine. It's not really for everyone. Also a remake is coming out eventually and who knows if it'll even still have random encounters. However, if you can't sell it, I would suggest giving it another chance. Instead of running along terrified you'll get into a battle, explore knowing the area is dangerous and you may need to fight. Attitude, persistance, dedication, the drive, the power, the skills, the power again, the list of attributes.

[Great Rumbler]

The technology exists so that random battles or no longer necessary, as they once were, but that doesn't mean that I want every RPG out there to ditch the concept entirely.

[Dark Jaguar]

I do :D, but that just ties into taking out randomness in games all around.

[Great Rumbler]

It's not random. Whether a battle occurs is based on a preset calculation of probability that increases with each movement made by the on-screen characters. You won't suddenly be attacked after taking a single step upon leaving a battle nor will you remain free from battles for an entire dungeon. So, if it's really supposed to be random, it's not very good at it.

[DMiller]

I might have considered buying it but with the DS version coming out I'll probably wait for that. I'm sure you can find something decent for it on eBay.

[Dark Jaguar]

Like most computer programs it's just pseudo random but it's not really based on any algorythm I can manipulate or predict without prying into the code, so it's effectively random.

Yeesh I'm just telling you I'd rather random battles go the way of the dinosaur. They really don't add anything to a game. As I said, I can deal with them just fine in games where it's used, but visible enemies are always superior.

[DMiller]

Weren't random battles simply used to save processing power anyway? Having the enemies on-screen would have been pretty taxing on early computers.

[Dark Jaguar]

Yep, that's why they existed. Actually there is a second reason. It is more time consuming to place individual enemy encounters all over various maps than to merely weight the selection of when they appear in the random battles.

[Great Rumbler]

I like Etrian Odyssey's method of having the harder, miniboss and boss type, monsters on screen while leaving the other encounters to be more random. Also, it gives you an indicator that changes color based on when a random battle is about to take place.

It's all pretty cool actually.

[A Black Falcon]

who wants to buy my copy of ffiv advance from me? i bought it, played it for a bit, then remembered how much i hated random battles.

That's about what I'd say with the game, I think. :)

Yes, there are good RPGs with random battles. That doesn't mean that any of them wouldn't be better with visible ones; they all would.

I like Etrian Odyssey's method of having the harder, miniboss and boss type, monsters on screen while leaving the other encounters to be more random. Also, it gives you an indicator that changes color based on when a random battle is about to take place.

It's all pretty cool actually.

Agreed, and there's also the colored light thing in the corner of one of the screens (that changes color from blue to red, and once it's red you're about to have a random battle) so though you can't SEE the normal enemies, you can fairly precisely predict when you're about to fight them...

And it's also first person, with a main view draw distance of about three squares. Visible normal enemies wouldn't mean that much... (it would be cool if the FOEs were something more intimidating than a floating cloud thing, though... :))

Weren't random battles simply used to save processing power anyway? Having the enemies on-screen would have been pretty taxing on early computers.

No, it's because originally (the first RPGs, Western PC ones) dungeons were done in first person, and as I've said, in first person with a very short draw distance, there isn't much difference between visible enemies and non. The issue is that when Japanese RPGs took the model but went to top down, they didn't change the system... (look at the original Ultima in comparison -- the overworld is top-down and zoomed out (the world map), and your sprite and the enemies are visible. Once you enter a dungeon it's first person with a very short draw distance and random monsters.)

[Bo Jackson]

I won't dignify this with response. Oops, I already did. Well, as long as I've gone this far...

Sheesh whats the big deal? I'm sure this will spark the umpteenth time we've had this very same argument, but come on now. Yes, yes I've played all sorts of RPGs where the enemies freely roam instead of randomly spawn, but I honestly didn't like the system so much that I am simply unable to return to a classic like FFIV simply due to the random battles. You're cheating yourself out of replaying one of the all-time greats for some minor detail.

How is what constitues 90% of the gameplay a minor detail?

But I should be more specific: I don't just hate random battles, but I also hate these simplistic turn-based battles of traditional j-rpgs.

Bo-B1: Man, I hate random battles so much. *buys FFIV Advance* Wait a minute...WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH ME?!

Me: ...

Yeah... the thing is that I hadn't played a traditional japanese rpg in a long time, and I thought that I might give the whole genre a go again, and it was was sale, so I thought why not.

bad decision.

I dunno, I just can't stand that gameplay any longer. If you're going to go the turn-based route then give me more complexity. Otherwise I'd much rather the battle system be real-time.

[Great Rumbler]

You so crazy, Bo-B1.

[EdenMaster]

How is what constitues 90% of the gameplay a minor detail?

But I should be more specific: I don't just hate random battles, but I also hate these simplistic turn-based battles of traditional j-rpgs.

Because you have to fight anyway. Its the meat of the game yes, but either you see the enemies coming or you don't. Different means, same end. Either way you have to fight if you want to increase your levels. And, if you don't want to fight, just flee.

And IV is real-time. What sort of complexity do you feel the battles are lacking? Limit breaks? Stat-enhancing equipment?

[Dark Jaguar]

It's not real time EM. Zelda is real time. FFIV is still turn based but it uses Square's "active time battle" system where instead of speed directly determining order every turn, it determines how quickly an "action bar" fills up and when it's full, you attack. It's still turn based, it's just that when your turn comes up is derived differently.

[Bo Jackson]

Right.

As for complexity, I mean something like one of those PC turn-based rpgs. Much more fun.

[Weltall]

...FFIV is on DS now?

[Great Rumbler]

[Weltall]

Huh.

[Dark Jaguar]

....What's with the bandaged pirate?

[Great Rumbler]

He's the Famitsu pirate.

Yeah, I don't get it either.

[Dark Jaguar]

Japan is weird... Every last individual in the nation... weird... It's the only way a game like Katamari could get made.

[lazyfatbum]

http://www.myconfinedspace.com/watermark...368965.jpg

[Dark Jaguar]

Monstrous phallic slugs with SPIKES?! A CHILD? What on EARTH? Lovingly formed from RESIN? A SMILE, a HALO? CALL THE POLICE! Ack! Imma getting the jibblies all over the place here... *shudders for 3 months*

I HATE YOU SO MUCH! I WISH I COULD HATE YOU TO DEATH!

[Great Rumbler]

That's virtually everything that Japan likes, all rolled into one.

[Dark Jaguar]

What does THAT have to do with Japan? Aside from the anime looking kid.

[Great Rumbler]

If I have to spell it out, then the joke stops being funny. But, if you insist:

-Rape involving tentacles
-Underage girl
-Halo/Angel [For some reason, Japanese people really like that stuff. I don't know why.]
-Gigantic male genitals
-Anime artstyle
-Resin statue
-Any combination of those things

[Dark Jaguar]

Um, I doubt an entire nation is dedicated to the vast majority of that, especially the second one, or that NBC show about catching predators would be based in Japan and not California. And, tentacles? From what I saw it was weird slug things. Either way, eww, and what on earth sort of interest can that be? How does something ELSE raping someone helping THEM spread their DNA to the next generation (well, fortuntatly it wouldn't anyway so those genes end with chemical castration). Either way, this isn't a healthy thing. At least there's no way short of genetic engineering any creature would have some bizarre need to attack another species entirely in this fasion. Halos are liked by the church and a lot of artists, I'm pretty sure that's not Japan exclusive.

I'll tell you this. It sure puts a different spin on Davy Jones... I guess there ARE worse things he could have done with that beard.

[Great Rumbler]

Um, I doubt an entire nation is dedicated to the vast majority of that, especially the second one, or that NBC show about catching predators would be based in Japan and not California.

That statue comes from the same country that made that witch toucher game! And that sells used schoolgirl underwear in vending machines. I mean, seriously.

And, tentacles? From what I saw it was weird slug things.

Either way, it falls under the tentacle subcategory of hentai.

Halos are liked by the church and a lot of artists, I'm pretty sure that's not Japan exclusive.

Christian imagery, for whatever reason, is really popular in Japan, particularly in Japanese animation. Also, I don't think the church would approve of that statue.

[Bo Jackson]

wtf, i was at work when i saw that

[Dark Jaguar]

Well if you want to get particular the current image of angels actually dates back to egyption mythology.

What witch toucher game? On second thought, never mind. The name alone suggests some sort of pepper spray deserving bus station pervert.

[Great Rumbler]

What witch toucher game? On second thought, never mind. The name alone suggests some sort of pepper spray deserving bus station pervert.

It's being developed by SNK. And the actual name is Doki Doki Majo Shinpan.

[Dark Jaguar]

Doki Doki? ...Panic?

[Sacred Jellybean]

i mean srsly

[Sacred Jellybean]

Tentacled creatures appeared in Japanese erotica long before animated pornography; among the most famous of the early instances (and perhaps the first) is a Hokusai woodcut called The Dream of the Fisherman’s Wife, depicting a woman sexually entwined with a pair of squids.

There you have it. GR is correct.

[Trogdor]

I love Japan

[lazyfatbum]

It took me a minute to find the 2nd octopus. I guess it's an oralpus because octooral actually sounds like something raccoons or sugar gliders do. You never see them in porn. Not ever. It simply never happens. It does not exist.

[lazyfatbum]

SJ/ I counted 7 phallic references in that picture.

Canoe?

[Sacred Jellybean]

I only count 2 obvious ones (In the Doshin the Giant picture). The building on the left, and the nub on Doshin, which was reportedly used to urinate hearts on the villagers.

[Dark Jaguar]

You were talking about Doshin? Huh... that just looked like a weird claymation lookin' game... I never noticed. It urinated hearts? Did it lift a leg?

[Sacred Jellybean]

Never played the game myself, but IGN reported some tidbits on it it some years back.

[A Black Falcon]

I dunno, I just can't stand that gameplay any longer. If you're going to go the turn-based route then give me more complexity. Otherwise I'd much rather the battle system be real-time.

That's really the key, I think. Complexity. If the game is complex and interesting I can bear the random battles... but so many console RPGs, particularly older ones, are so mind-numbingly simplistic that actually playing them is incredibly boring... it requires no actual thought or strategy, just time and repetition...

Because you have to fight anyway. Its the meat of the game yes, but either you see the enemies coming or you don't. Different means, same end. Either way you have to fight if you want to increase your levels. And, if you don't want to fight, just flee.

There's a lot of truth to this, though I would say that being able to outrun enemies you can see is definitely better than having to escape from battles constantly. Really though, what matters more is that they have a game and battle system with actual depth and complexity. And that is something that console RPGs do very rarely.

It's not real time EM. Zelda is real time. FFIV is still turn based but it uses Square's "active time battle" system where instead of speed directly determining order every turn, it determines how quickly an "action bar" fills up and when it's full, you attack. It's still turn based, it's just that when your turn comes up is derived differently.

What's the attraction of ATB anyway? It's no faster paced than turnbased really, it cuts down on the tiny amount of strategy that IS present by adding a timing element, etc... meh, I don't think that it makes any difference at all. It's the actual game system that makes the difference, not whether it's pure turnbased or pausable realtime or phase-based or whatever.

That's virtually everything that Japan likes, all rolled into one.

Yeah, pretty much. About the only thing that it doesn't cover is the "prepubescent children in sexual situations" thing, which, unlike stuff like that image, I do find somewhat disturbing... it's not as common as images of people above the age of puberty are (like this one), though, but it's there...

Most of it I've gotten used to, but a few things, like pre-pubescent children... that's just going too far (not that it should be illegal to make such images, it shouldn't since it's art and not reality, but why are there so MANY of them? You can't avoid seeing some of it if you spend any time at all reading imageboards...).

-Rape involving tentacles
-Underage girl
-Halo/Angel [For some reason, Japanese people really like that stuff. I don't know why.]
-Gigantic male genitals
-Anime artstyle
-Resin statue
-Any combination of those things

Those statues can be really expensive, too! I don't quite get why they are so popular...

That statue comes from the same country that made that witch toucher game! And that sells used schoolgirl underwear in vending machines. I mean, seriously.

The witch toucher game is rated C or something (not quite sure of the exact rating, but it's not 18+ or something), it's not explicit or anything... those PC hentai visual novels and stuff is where the worst of it is. Now THERE there is no limit to the content.

Oh, it has an english website... some funny stuff there. And some awesome SNK-glish (SNK have long been masters of bad english! :D) :)


http://www.dokimajo.com/english/

[Dark Jaguar]

I feel like I just walked in on some strange realm of entirely different information in a conversation between two mindflayers from the outer planes. I mean I've walked in on weird subcultures before, but not like this.

Let's change the subject! Anyone watch that Tim and Eric Awesome Show? I have, and great this isn't any better at all! Ugh, the things they do with food on that show, unnatural things... vomit worthy things... slow motion rewinded vomit....