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+--- Thread: Various stuffs about FF (/showthread.php?tid=4411)
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Various stuffs about FF - Bo Jackson - 8th June 2007
who wants to buy my copy of ffiv advance from me? i bought it, played it for a bit, then remembered how much i hated random battles.
Various stuffs about FF - Dark Jaguar - 8th June 2007
I already own the game, and also the PS1 version, and also I'm terrified I actually WILL be buying the DS version when it comes out.
Did you buy the game JUST to make that joke?
Various stuffs about FF - Bo Jackson - 8th June 2007
No, it was on sale late last year and I bought it.
Various stuffs about FF - Dark Jaguar - 8th June 2007
Ah the sale. The key thing to remember is that you save even MORE money when you don't buy it at all. :D It's that secret THEY don't want you to know.
Various stuffs about FF - Bo Jackson - 8th June 2007
'tis true!
Various stuffs about FF - Dark Jaguar - 9th June 2007
Actually on retrospect this is really not about FFVI, I think I'll go ahead and move this into TC.
Various stuffs about FF - EdenMaster - 9th June 2007
Bo Jackson Wrote:who wants to buy my copy of ffiv advance from me? i bought it, played it for a bit, then remembered how much i hated random battles.
I won't dignify this with response. Oops, I already did. Well, as long as I've gone this far...
Sheesh whats the big deal? I'm sure this will spark the umpteenth time we've had this <i>very same</i> argument, but come on now. Yes, yes I've played all sorts of RPGs where the enemies freely roam instead of randomly spawn, but I honestly didn't like the system so much that I am simply unable to return to a classic like FFIV simply due to the random battles. You're cheating yourself out of replaying one of the all-time greats for some minor detail.
Various stuffs about FF - Great Rumbler - 9th June 2007
Bo-B1: Man, I hate random battles so much. *buys FFIV Advance* Wait a minute...WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH ME?!
Me: ...
Various stuffs about FF - Dark Jaguar - 9th June 2007
Personally I think that game development does need to eventually ditch random encounters in favor of pre-placed enemies you can avoid (or at least randomly spawning enemies on the map you can still avoid, ala Zelda 2 or Ultima Exodus).
THAT SAID, I don't have much issue dealing with them when I play the classics. They can get annoying sometimes but the majority of the time it's fine and I just enjoy the experience.
Basically if you want to sell your game, that's fine. It's not really for everyone. Also a remake is coming out eventually and who knows if it'll even still have random encounters. However, if you can't sell it, I would suggest giving it another chance. Instead of running along terrified you'll get into a battle, explore knowing the area is dangerous and you may need to fight. Attitude, persistance, dedication, the drive, the power, the skills, the power again, the list of attributes.
Various stuffs about FF - Great Rumbler - 9th June 2007
The technology exists so that random battles or no longer necessary, as they once were, but that doesn't mean that I want every RPG out there to ditch the concept entirely.
Various stuffs about FF - Dark Jaguar - 9th June 2007
I do :D, but that just ties into taking out randomness in games all around.
Various stuffs about FF - Great Rumbler - 9th June 2007
It's not random. Whether a battle occurs is based on a preset calculation of probability that increases with each movement made by the on-screen characters. You won't suddenly be attacked after taking a single step upon leaving a battle nor will you remain free from battles for an entire dungeon. So, if it's really supposed to be random, it's not very good at it.
Various stuffs about FF - DMiller - 9th June 2007
I might have considered buying it but with the DS version coming out I'll probably wait for that. I'm sure you can find something decent for it on eBay.
Various stuffs about FF - Dark Jaguar - 9th June 2007
Like most computer programs it's just pseudo random but it's not really based on any algorythm I can manipulate or predict without prying into the code, so it's effectively random.
Yeesh I'm just telling you I'd rather random battles go the way of the dinosaur. They really don't add anything to a game. As I said, I can deal with them just fine in games where it's used, but visible enemies are always superior.
Various stuffs about FF - DMiller - 9th June 2007
Weren't random battles simply used to save processing power anyway? Having the enemies on-screen would have been pretty taxing on early computers.
Various stuffs about FF - Dark Jaguar - 9th June 2007
Yep, that's why they existed. Actually there is a second reason. It is more time consuming to place individual enemy encounters all over various maps than to merely weight the selection of when they appear in the random battles.
Various stuffs about FF - Great Rumbler - 9th June 2007
I like Etrian Odyssey's method of having the harder, miniboss and boss type, monsters on screen while leaving the other encounters to be more random. Also, it gives you an indicator that changes color based on when a random battle is about to take place.
It's all pretty cool actually.
Various stuffs about FF - A Black Falcon - 9th June 2007
Quote:who wants to buy my copy of ffiv advance from me? i bought it, played it for a bit, then remembered how much i hated random battles.
That's about what I'd say with the game, I think. :)
Yes, there are good RPGs with random battles. That doesn't mean that any of them wouldn't be better with visible ones; they all would.
Quote:I like Etrian Odyssey's method of having the harder, miniboss and boss type, monsters on screen while leaving the other encounters to be more random. Also, it gives you an indicator that changes color based on when a random battle is about to take place.
It's all pretty cool actually.
Agreed, and there's also the colored light thing in the corner of one of the screens (that changes color from blue to red, and once it's red you're about to have a random battle) so though you can't SEE the normal enemies, you can fairly precisely predict when you're about to fight them...
And it's also first person, with a main view draw distance of about three squares. Visible normal enemies wouldn't mean that much... (it would be cool if the FOEs were something more intimidating than a floating cloud thing, though... :))
Quote:Weren't random battles simply used to save processing power anyway? Having the enemies on-screen would have been pretty taxing on early computers.
No, it's because originally (the first RPGs, Western PC ones) dungeons were done in first person, and as I've said, in first person with a very short draw distance, there isn't much difference between visible enemies and non. The issue is that when Japanese RPGs took the model but went to top down, they didn't change the system... (look at the original Ultima in comparison -- the overworld is top-down and zoomed out (the world map), and your sprite and the enemies are visible. Once you enter a dungeon it's first person with a very short draw distance and random monsters.)
Various stuffs about FF - Bo Jackson - 11th June 2007
EdenMaster Wrote:
I won't dignify this with response. Oops, I already did. Well, as long as I've gone this far...
Sheesh whats the big deal? I'm sure this will spark the umpteenth time we've had this very same argument, but come on now. Yes, yes I've played all sorts of RPGs where the enemies freely roam instead of randomly spawn, but I honestly didn't like the system so much that I am simply unable to return to a classic like FFIV simply due to the random battles. You're cheating yourself out of replaying one of the all-time greats for some minor detail.
How is what constitues 90% of the gameplay a minor detail?
![[Image: confused.gif]](http://tcforums.com/ubb/confused.gif)
But I should be more specific: I don't just hate random battles, but I also hate these simplistic turn-based battles of traditional j-rpgs.
Quote:Bo-B1: Man, I hate random battles so much. *buys FFIV Advance* Wait a minute...WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH ME?!
Me: ...
Yeah... the thing is that I hadn't played a traditional japanese rpg in a long time, and I thought that I might give the whole genre a go again, and it was was sale, so I thought why not.
bad decision.
I dunno, I just can't stand that gameplay any longer. If you're going to go the turn-based route then give me more complexity. Otherwise I'd much rather the battle system be real-time.
Various stuffs about FF - Great Rumbler - 11th June 2007
You so crazy, Bo-B1.
Various stuffs about FF - EdenMaster - 11th June 2007
Bo Jackson Wrote:How is what constitues 90% of the gameplay a minor detail?Because you have to fight anyway. Its the meat of the game yes, but either you see the enemies coming or you don't. Different means, same end. Either way you have to fight if you want to increase your levels. And, if you don't want to fight, just flee.
But I should be more specific: I don't just hate random battles, but I also hate these simplistic turn-based battles of traditional j-rpgs.
And IV is real-time. What sort of complexity do you feel the battles are lacking? Limit breaks? Stat-enhancing equipment?
Various stuffs about FF - Dark Jaguar - 11th June 2007
It's not real time EM. Zelda is real time. FFIV is still turn based but it uses Square's "active time battle" system where instead of speed directly determining order every turn, it determines how quickly an "action bar" fills up and when it's full, you attack. It's still turn based, it's just that when your turn comes up is derived differently.
Various stuffs about FF - Bo Jackson - 11th June 2007
Right.
As for complexity, I mean something like one of those PC turn-based rpgs. Much more fun.
Various stuffs about FF - Weltall - 12th June 2007
...FFIV is on DS now?
Various stuffs about FF - Great Rumbler - 12th June 2007
![[Image: shonenffivscan.jpg]](http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/05/shonenffivscan.jpg)
Various stuffs about FF - Weltall - 12th June 2007
Huh.
Various stuffs about FF - Dark Jaguar - 12th June 2007
....What's with the bandaged pirate?
Various stuffs about FF - Great Rumbler - 12th June 2007
He's the Famitsu pirate.
Yeah, I don't get it either.
Various stuffs about FF - Dark Jaguar - 12th June 2007
Japan is weird... Every last individual in the nation... weird... It's the only way a game like Katamari could get made.
Various stuffs about FF - lazyfatbum - 12th June 2007
http://www.myconfinedspace.com/watermark.php?src=wp-content/uploads/2006/10/1159927368965.jpg
Various stuffs about FF - Dark Jaguar - 12th June 2007
Monstrous phallic slugs with SPIKES?! A CHILD? What on EARTH? Lovingly formed from RESIN? A SMILE, a HALO? CALL THE POLICE! Ack! Imma getting the jibblies all over the place here... *shudders for 3 months*
I HATE YOU SO MUCH! I WISH I COULD HATE YOU TO DEATH!
Various stuffs about FF - Great Rumbler - 12th June 2007
That's virtually everything that Japan likes, all rolled into one.
Various stuffs about FF - Dark Jaguar - 12th June 2007
What does THAT have to do with Japan? Aside from the anime looking kid.
Various stuffs about FF - Great Rumbler - 12th June 2007
If I have to spell it out, then the joke stops being funny. But, if you insist:
-Rape involving tentacles
-Underage girl
-Halo/Angel [For some reason, Japanese people really like that stuff. I don't know why.]
-Gigantic male genitals
-Anime artstyle
-Resin statue
-Any combination of those things
Various stuffs about FF - Dark Jaguar - 12th June 2007
Um, I doubt an entire nation is dedicated to the vast majority of that, especially the second one, or that NBC show about catching predators would be based in Japan and not California. And, tentacles? From what I saw it was weird slug things. Either way, eww, and what on earth sort of interest can that be? How does something ELSE raping someone helping THEM spread their DNA to the next generation (well, fortuntatly it wouldn't anyway so those genes end with chemical castration). Either way, this isn't a healthy thing. At least there's no way short of genetic engineering any creature would have some bizarre need to attack another species entirely in this fasion. Halos are liked by the church and a lot of artists, I'm pretty sure that's not Japan exclusive.
I'll tell you this. It sure puts a different spin on Davy Jones... I guess there ARE worse things he could have done with that beard.
Various stuffs about FF - Great Rumbler - 12th June 2007
Quote:Um, I doubt an entire nation is dedicated to the vast majority of that, especially the second one, or that NBC show about catching predators would be based in Japan and not California.
That statue comes from the same country that made that witch toucher game! And that sells used schoolgirl underwear in vending machines. I mean, seriously.
Quote:And, tentacles? From what I saw it was weird slug things.
Either way, it falls under the tentacle subcategory of hentai.
Quote:Halos are liked by the church and a lot of artists, I'm pretty sure that's not Japan exclusive.
Christian imagery, for whatever reason, is really popular in Japan, particularly in Japanese animation. Also, I don't think the church would approve of that statue.
Various stuffs about FF - Bo Jackson - 12th June 2007
wtf, i was at work when i saw that
Various stuffs about FF - Dark Jaguar - 12th June 2007
Well if you want to get particular the current image of angels actually dates back to egyption mythology.
What witch toucher game? On second thought, never mind. The name alone suggests some sort of pepper spray deserving bus station pervert.
Various stuffs about FF - Great Rumbler - 12th June 2007
Quote:What witch toucher game? On second thought, never mind. The name alone suggests some sort of pepper spray deserving bus station pervert.
It's being developed by SNK. And the actual name is Doki Doki Majo Shinpan.
Various stuffs about FF - Dark Jaguar - 12th June 2007
Doki Doki? ...Panic?
Various stuffs about FF - Sacred Jellybean - 12th June 2007
![[Image: 3434479988.jpg]](http://eur.i1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/xp/canjueg/20050427/17/2/3434479988.jpg)
i mean srsly
Various stuffs about FF - Sacred Jellybean - 12th June 2007
Quote:Tentacled creatures appeared in Japanese erotica long before animated pornography; among the most famous of the early instances (and perhaps the first) is a Hokusai woodcut called The Dream of the Fisherman’s Wife, depicting a woman sexually entwined with a pair of squids.
![[Image: Dream_of_the_fishermans_wife_hokusai.jpg]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Dream_of_the_fishermans_wife_hokusai.jpg)
There you have it. GR is correct.
Various stuffs about FF - Trogdor - 12th June 2007
I love Japan
Various stuffs about FF - lazyfatbum - 13th June 2007
It took me a minute to find the 2nd octopus. I guess it's an oralpus because octooral actually sounds like something raccoons or sugar gliders do. You never see them in porn. Not ever. It simply never happens. It does not exist.
Various stuffs about FF - lazyfatbum - 13th June 2007
SJ/ I counted 7 phallic references in that picture.
Canoe?
Various stuffs about FF - Sacred Jellybean - 13th June 2007
I only count 2 obvious ones (In the Doshin the Giant picture). The building on the left, and the nub on Doshin, which was reportedly used to urinate hearts on the villagers.
Various stuffs about FF - Dark Jaguar - 13th June 2007
You were talking about Doshin? Huh... that just looked like a weird claymation lookin' game... I never noticed. It urinated hearts? Did it lift a leg?
Various stuffs about FF - Sacred Jellybean - 13th June 2007
Never played the game myself, but IGN reported some tidbits on it it some years back.
Various stuffs about FF - A Black Falcon - 13th June 2007
OB1 Wrote:I dunno, I just can't stand that gameplay any longer. If you're going to go the turn-based route then give me more complexity. Otherwise I'd much rather the battle system be real-time.
That's really the key, I think. Complexity. If the game is complex and interesting I can bear the random battles... but so many console RPGs, particularly older ones, are so mind-numbingly simplistic that actually playing them is incredibly boring... it requires no actual thought or strategy, just time and repetition...
EdenMaster Wrote:Because you have to fight anyway. Its the meat of the game yes, but either you see the enemies coming or you don't. Different means, same end. Either way you have to fight if you want to increase your levels. And, if you don't want to fight, just flee.
There's a lot of truth to this, though I would say that being able to outrun enemies you can see is definitely better than having to escape from battles constantly. Really though, what matters more is that they have a game and battle system with actual depth and complexity. And that is something that console RPGs do very rarely.
Quote:It's not real time EM. Zelda is real time. FFIV is still turn based but it uses Square's "active time battle" system where instead of speed directly determining order every turn, it determines how quickly an "action bar" fills up and when it's full, you attack. It's still turn based, it's just that when your turn comes up is derived differently.
What's the attraction of ATB anyway? It's no faster paced than turnbased really, it cuts down on the tiny amount of strategy that IS present by adding a timing element, etc... meh, I don't think that it makes any difference at all. It's the actual game system that makes the difference, not whether it's pure turnbased or pausable realtime or phase-based or whatever.
Quote:That's virtually everything that Japan likes, all rolled into one.
Yeah, pretty much. About the only thing that it doesn't cover is the "prepubescent children in sexual situations" thing, which, unlike stuff like that image, I do find somewhat disturbing... it's not as common as images of people above the age of puberty are (like this one), though, but it's there...
Most of it I've gotten used to, but a few things, like pre-pubescent children... that's just going too far (not that it should be illegal to make such images, it shouldn't since it's art and not reality, but why are there so MANY of them? You can't avoid seeing some of it if you spend any time at all reading imageboards...).
Quote:-Rape involving tentacles
-Underage girl
-Halo/Angel [For some reason, Japanese people really like that stuff. I don't know why.]
-Gigantic male genitals
-Anime artstyle
-Resin statue
-Any combination of those things
Those statues can be really expensive, too! I don't quite get why they are so popular...
Quote:That statue comes from the same country that made that witch toucher game! And that sells used schoolgirl underwear in vending machines. I mean, seriously.
The witch toucher game is rated C or something (not quite sure of the exact rating, but it's not 18+ or something), it's not explicit or anything... those PC hentai visual novels and stuff is where the worst of it is. Now THERE there is no limit to the content.
Oh, it has an english website... some funny stuff there. And some awesome SNK-glish (SNK have long been masters of bad english! :D) :)
http://www.dokimajo.com/english/
Various stuffs about FF - Dark Jaguar - 13th June 2007
I feel like I just walked in on some strange realm of entirely different information in a conversation between two mindflayers from the outer planes. I mean I've walked in on weird subcultures before, but not like this.
Let's change the subject! Anyone watch that Tim and Eric Awesome Show? I have, and great this isn't any better at all! Ugh, the things they do with food on that show, unnatural things... vomit worthy things... slow motion rewinded vomit....