The price of gas in America

[Great Rumbler]

However, the government has no business playing big brother and stepping in to restrict the freedom of its constituents

Everything the goverment does in some way violates your freedoms. Just pointing that out.

By the way, I'm for keeping all those drugs illegal. Ciggarettes and alcohol should probably be illegal too, but it'd never work so goverment should just leave things the way they are now.

[Sacred Jellybean]

By the way, I'm for keeping all those drugs illegal. Ciggarettes and alcohol should probably be illegal too, but it'd never work so goverment should just leave things the way they are now.

If prohibition doesn't work for cigarettes and alcohol, what makes you think it'll work for any recreational drug? I'm not saying I'm for the legalization for harder drugs, I'm just playing devil's advocate.

Everything the goverment does in some way violates your freedoms. Just pointing that out.

I think the government should draw the line at telling us what we can and can't do with our bodies. Our bodies and minds belong to ourselves, and not anyone else.

[Weltall]

There is, of course, a reason why pot can be illegal while tobacco and alcohol cannot be, and that is the phenomenons of smoking cigs and drinking hooch were very well established before the United States existed. Since pot smoking didn't catch on until well after, the government was able to illegalize it early on, never allowing it the mainstream appeal smokes and drinks enjoy. That's why prohibition on those items will never happen, but can and do with pot. It's always been clandestine, and therefore, most people don't care that its illegal since pot smokers are a small minority.

[Sacred Jellybean]

There is, of course, a reason why pot can be illegal while tobacco and alcohol cannot be, and that is the phenomenons of smoking cigs and drinking hooch were very well established before the United States existed. Since pot smoking didn't catch on until well after, the government was able to illegalize it early on, never allowing it the mainstream appeal smokes and drinks enjoy. That's why prohibition on those items will never happen, but can and do with pot. It's always been clandestine, and therefore, most people don't care that its illegal since pot smokers are a small minority.

You hit the hammer right on the head. The government illegalized pot during the Temperance Era, shortly after alcohol was relegalized, if I'm not mistaken. Even more interesting, the government made the plant illegal under false and racist terms. Harry Anslinger, the newly elected first drug czar of America, claimed that marijuana was used by dangerous minorities- mexicans and black men and jazz musicians who worship the devil and use it to seduce white women. He claimed it made people go psychotic, gain super strength, feel an insatiable, aggressive, uncontrollable sex drive, and countless other completely unfounded allegations.

If anyone wants to learn more about the history of pot, I recommend the documentary "Grass". It's a great film, very entertaining and informative, although admittedly, it's obvious that the film isn't 100% objective. Instead, its tone is slanted towards pro-marijuana legislation. It's facts are straight, though, and even better, it's narrated by Woody Harrelson. :)

[Darunia]

...and why not, what's wrong with marijuana. Nothing. Just more needless legislation in our Daddy-Knows-Best government.

[Great Rumbler]

It serves no useful purpose in society. *is high on life*

[Dark Jaguar]

Is it a bit of hypocrasy that one can be illegal while the other isn't? Of course! I'm all for making them ALL illegal, but it just can't happen... I mean, if we tried it again, I really don't think organized crime would threaten us like it did back then (at the time, the underground could manage to get ahold of really powerful weapons that they just can't any more), but it still wouldn't work.

And yes, even with the fact that it's a bit hypocritical, due to the reasons it has to be that way, I still fully support making it illegal. Listen Darunia, the last thing we need is some idiot getting in their car while high. I know the jokes, they only drive slower, but those are jokes, not reality. Any narcotic that shows up can and should be made illegal before it becomes mainstream, to prevent the travesty of tobacco and alcohol... and firearms...

Ya know Darunia, you only answered that question because you didn't want us answering it for you. What's wrong with pot? Well, for one thing it DOES screw with your brain. There's a reason people addicted to it have trouble remembering things. Also, it's still smoke in your lungs, so there's that.

One thing people don't do much about is people driving while under the influence of sleep deprivation. Ya know, being deprived of sleep at the wheel is, at least statistically, more dangerous than driving mildly drunk (not DEAD drunk mind you, that manages to be more dangerous). People need to learn to SLEEP, or if they find themselves tired at the wheel, learn to get off the road and sleep.

[OB1]

IAWTP.

[Great Rumbler]

Me or DJ?

[OB1]

DJ. But yeah your's too.

IAWTP = I agree with this post. Or is it person? Same thing.

[Great Rumbler]

Yeah, I know. I was just wondering because your's and DJ's posts were close together, so I didn't know if you'd seen it before you posted.

[OB1]

Yeah.

[Sacred Jellybean]

It serves no useful purpose in society. *is high on life*

Video games serve no useful purpose in society, when you get right down to it. Admittedly, it's a lot harder to become addicted to video games than mind-altering substances, but still, this argument is bunk.

If you want let the big brother government tell you what you can and can't do for your body, where do you draw the line? Piercings can be harmful, if they're infected. HIV can be transmitted via tattoos, can't it? I think homosexual and oral sex and any intercourse position other than the missionary are all disgusting, so let's throw them out the window, too. How about fast food? IMO, McDonalds is greasy and delicious, addictive in it's own fashion. It isn't, of course, as intense as currently legal and illegal substances, but better safe than sorry, eh? Hey, we should also make laws against people being lazy. We should install alarm clocks controlled by the government that wake everyone up at 7am on Monday through Friday, because after all, if they aren't worthy members that contribute to society, their activities should be frowned upon. While we're on a roll, I say we also get rid of coffee. Did you know that caffiene is more physically addictive than pot? Sounds scary - bye bye, Folgers!

I know I'm taking all this to an extreme, but I'm trying to prove a point. There comes a time when we need to draw the line and disallow the government interfere with our own private lives (private lives - that includes not driving behind the wheel while burninated or smashered). IMO, they interfere enough as it is. Come on, let's get a libertarian into office!

[Great Rumbler]

Video games do serve a useful purpose. *is master of hand-eye coordination*

[Sacred Jellybean]

Professor Membrane: "Son, video games develop hand-eye coordination, and make kids into better human beings!"

[Great Rumbler]

That's right they do! You think I'd be second in my class and heading to college with all my expenses paid if I didn't play videogames all the time?! I think not!!

[Sacred Jellybean]

We meet again, ultra-PIGULON!!

[Sacred Jellybean]

"The gă mē is mine..."

[OB1]

wtf

[Sacred Jellybean]

"The... gă mē... is mine..."

[OB1]

ah...

[Great Rumbler]

That episode was pretty cool.

[Sacred Jellybean]

It it's easily one of the best in the entire series.

[Geno]

Well, one reason prohibition of alcohol didn't work so well is because a person can just brew beer in their own basement if they wanted to.

[Sacred Jellybean]

Just like a person can grow a few pot plants in a closet. With the right lighting equipment, fertilizer, plant containers, etc it probably isn't that hard at all. It just takes dedication and patience. The same deal is true for tobacco plants, although I read that tobacco is harder to grow. Plus, a cigarette smoker will go through much more tobacco in any given period of time than a weed smoker.

[Weltall]

Well, one reason prohibition of alcohol didn't work so well is because a person can just brew beer in their own basement if they wanted to.

That's not the real reason, though. If alcohol were always an illegal substance, there would have been much less desire to homebrew hooch. The fatal flaw of Prohibition was that alcohol use is something that has been a part of human culture since someone drank old juice seven trillion years ago and found out that it makes you feel nice and floaty. Wine has been around since practically the beginning of civilization, and alcohol use obviously as well, so that by 1918, there was no chance of temperance being successful. Instead, the many problems of alcoholism were, if anything, far worse during those years, and of course, Prohibition more than anything else gave rise to organized crime in general, and the Mafia in particular.

If the pleasant side-effects of mary jane had been discovered thousands of years ago, and the trend caught on, you'd be able to buy doobies in packs of twenty at 7-11 today right next to the Camel Lights, and there's no way you could make it illegal. As it so happens, the drug really didn't catch on in a big way until the counterculture of the 60's popularized it, so it was illegalized and quashed long before it could become a part of the human psyche.

As far as tobacco, as I understand, cultivating tobacco leaves is a far more complex and involved process than marijuana, and tobacco really isn't something you can grow with flourescents in the basement.

As far as my own beliefs, I do believe in the decriminalization of pot, because, while I personally have no desire to smoke, I do drink occasionally, and I can enjoy it without allowing myself to let it become a threat to others. I do not think it is far to make pot illegal while allowing alcohol, and I do think both have inherent dangers, but I also think that a majority of people safely control their alcohol consumption and they could also safely control marijuana consumption.

[Geno]

Personally, I don't see the point of having some drugs be legal and others not. As you said, alcohol can be just as good or just as bad as marijuana. Also, there's the fact that Mary Jane and cocaine (that rhymes, that definitely, definitely rhymes) open the way to organized crime, much the same way alcohol did during prohibition. I even had a friend get arrested for possessing marijuana... or cocaine, I forgot which one. But yeah, her daddy came and bailed her out, so... yeah. I just think the law enforcement could be focusing on more urgent matters than if somebody has marijuana or cocaine stashed in their car/house somewhere.

[Darunia]

Expensive gas here is peaking at $2.03; cheap gas is $1.89.

[geoboy]

Darunia! How dare you derail this topic! :D :D :D

"Let's get this train wreck a-rollin'!"

[Great Rumbler]

Gas here is still holding at a steady $1.99 despite a $1.23 drop in the price of light crude.

...

Also the Nasdaq lost about 18 points, while the blue chips gained around 50.

[Weltall]

Personally, I don't see the point of having some drugs be legal and others not. As you said, alcohol can be just as good or just as bad as marijuana. Also, there's the fact that Mary Jane and cocaine (that rhymes, that definitely, definitely rhymes) open the way to organized crime, much the same way alcohol did during prohibition. I even had a friend get arrested for possessing marijuana... or cocaine, I forgot which one. But yeah, her daddy came and bailed her out, so... yeah. I just think the law enforcement could be focusing on more urgent matters than if somebody has marijuana or cocaine stashed in their car/house somewhere.

I draw the line at weed, and maybe acid.

Cocaine, and other drugs of that caliber, are considerably more potent and dangerous, they have the potential to instantly kill, and I don't think they ought to be legal at all.

[A Black Falcon]

Mind-altering drugs are a public health hazard, so of course the police should be looking for them...

I'd only support legalization of marijuana if it required a prescription (with strict requirements for what kinds of illnesses would justify such a drug!) and was available from drugstores or something like that. Nothing else.

[Great Rumbler]

Gas just went up to $2.19. :S

[OB1]

Two-fucking-twenty-four over here.

[Weltall]

Between $2.08 and $2.14. Yuck.

[OB1]

Man that's cheap.

[Dark Jaguar]

Well hey, all they are doing is pretty much promising that the SECOND one of the few alternative fuels for cars are through with development, EVERYONE will switch to them within 6 months :D. Oh sure, the price of methanol will rise if it's hydrogen fuel cell tech everyone goes to, but not by much. The diff will be that you don't have to dig in God's hellhole on Earth in order to get it, because you can frickin' make it in your backyard.

[Great Rumbler]

Those hybrid and alternative fuel cars are looking pretty good right about now...

[Great Rumbler]

Gas is now somewhere between $2.39 and $2.49. Gah! I can't afford that!!

[A Black Falcon]

Gas is over $6 in some parts of Norway.

[Great Rumbler]

Well this isn't Norway!

[Darunia]

Gas seems to have gone up ten cents a gallon over the past three days.... the cheapest I could find it in my hometown was at $2.55!

They definitely should find some way to legalize marijuana. It's a law that serves no point: if people want to smoke, they'll find a way. If people don't, they won't. The government wastes so much money and effort trying to enforce laws it will never be able to enforce. The same with underage drinking.

[A Black Falcon]

It has a point because it keeps some people from doing something that is bad for them... so no, they should not.

[Great Rumbler]

The same with underage drinking.

No.

[A Black Falcon]

Yes, great idea, let's make it even easier for teenagers to kill themselves while young and stupid... way to go!

My opinion is about as different as it gets... I think tobacco should be made illegal.

[Great Rumbler]

It probably should be, along with alcohol, but that's never going to happen.

[Dark Jaguar]

It's a hard call... On the one hand, I enjoy liberty and the idea of life ownership. On the other hand, people hurting each other is certainly to be discouraged...

Here's my idea. More education involving the parents. To that end, let's instate a "child bearing liscense". People who want to reproduce have to take a test of basic competency in order to be allowed to :D. If they fail the test, they don't get the liscense. Also, they have to leave a few things with the department...

Basically, parents can't go around teaching their kids garbage like "well ya never know" or "well ya gotta do the things and with the aliens and "logic" is just an opinion", or, and this is the worst, "you really don't have to worry about education, I never bothered studying and I did alright, now you get your brother and get back in the trailer!". Endless cycles of hate sure are a problem, but the real issue is this endless cycle of ignorance...

Oh, there's something you should know about a few of the alternative energy sources... Currently, all of them require more energy to process than they actually yield. Crude oil uses less energy to process than it yields. As a result, if we go with methanol, for example, the energy needed has to come from somewhere, so we end up pulling a lot of energy from power plants for the purpose of powering portable things like cars. That poses a problem...

[A Black Falcon]

Alchohol... yeah, it's definitely bad. But is there as clear a direct link between "consume any amount ever and you immediately start reducing your life expectancy" as tobacco has?

[Weltall]

Alchohol... yeah, it's definitely bad. But is there as clear a direct link between "consume any amount ever and you immediately start reducing your life expectancy" as tobacco has?

Of course. And not only can you immediately reduce your life expectancy to zero immediately, alcohol allows the added benefit of enabling you to reduce the life expectancy of other people to zero immediately too, so we can easily determine from accidents caused by drunk drivers.

There's no question that alcohol is a far bigger threat to health than tobacco. Cigarettes kill you over a span of many years. Alcohol can kill you the very first time you have too much. It can also kill you the second or third or tenth. You can drink yourself into a coma the very first time you get ahold of enough. Of course, there's plenty of long-term damage to be served up as well, liver damage, kidney failure, stomach damage, heart damage, you name it.

And, even if it doesn't kill you directly, it can ruin you, ruin your family, ruin your career, if you lose the ability to control it. Alcohol is the fuel behind all sorts of terrible things, and it's not good for you to boot.

Cigarettes? Well, they stink, and make people cough. They can kill people who go overboard smoking them for many, many years. But they're nowhere near as dangerous as firewater, not immediately, not long-term.

[A Black Falcon]

Of course. And not only can you immediately reduce your life expectancy to zero immediately, alcohol allows the added benefit of enabling you to reduce the life expectancy of other people to zero immediately too, so we can easily determine from accidents caused by drunk drivers.

Well yes, once you factor in stupidity (that is, driving drunk) it certainly does...

There's no question that alcohol is a far bigger threat to health than tobacco. Cigarettes kill you over a span of many years. Alcohol can kill you the very first time you have too much. It can also kill you the second or third or tenth. You can drink yourself into a coma the very first time you get ahold of enough. Of course, there's plenty of long-term damage to be served up as well, liver damage, kidney failure, stomach damage, heart damage, you name it.

Alchohol is the biggest drug killer in the US... but the fact that the direct health implications of drinking it aren't as bad as for other drugs, other than impaired judgement for a while, makes it harder to ban... of course, the ease of making it also doesn't help much there. At least with tobacco you need one specific plant...

As for the other part, of course overindulgence is bad. But overindulgence of ANYTHING is bad, and we can't ban everything... the question is the amount that is required to cause permanant health damage. That's the point where the government should step in...

Cigarettes? Well, they stink, and make people cough. They can kill people who go overboard smoking them for many, many years. But they're nowhere near as dangerous as firewater, not immediately, not long-term.

Actually, smoking immediately reduces your life expectancy... the sooner you quit the more you will recover, but it'd never be the same as if you'd never smoked.