30th July 2003, 5:15 PM
Quote:Hey, lets watch OB1 ignore the part of my post that doesn't support his opinion!
Sure reading isn't the same as playing but its something...
And its not like there weren't great racing games on the PC... though admittedly they were better on consoles, its not like PC racing games were so far behind. At least not by '94...
I'm playing your game. Instead of responding directly to something that I say, you change the subject to suit your argument. When I said that you didn't play games back then I of course meant consoles because that's the only place you could get good racing games.
Quote:First, you did say Mario Kart isn't a racing game, since Wing Commander is a space simulator and Gradius a scrolling action shooter. Those are not even remotely the same genre.
Unless you say Contra is in the same genre as Doom, because in both you run and shoot stuff? Its like that, except even less similar.
Oh wow. You actually did it. You said that Gradius and Wing Commander are in the same genre. As I thought, you retreat when your position becomes untenable... In that case... WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?????? THEY HAVE N_O_T_H_I_N_G IN COMMON!!!! THEY ARE NOT IN ANY DELUSIONAL WAY IN THE SAME GENRE!
Now if you'd said "like Mario Bros. to Pitfall" I might have been closer to agreeing... I wouldn't have, because as you say it didn't change the genre its in as much as SMB, but I'd at least understand your point.
But you didn't. You said Gradius and Wing Commander.
So lets look at those games.
Gradius. Top-down, sideways-scrolling ship shooter. Fly forward and kill everything, while avoiding the obstacles. Extremely simple side-scrolling shooter where you shoot stuff before it hits you.
Wing Commander. Simulation of starfighter combat, from a somewhat but not overly arcadish perspective. Fairly deep simulation of their interpretation of starfighter combat... that gets deeper and more complex with each game in the series.
How you put these in the same genre is a total mystery to me.
At least for Gran Turismo... yes that is also a sim but it has essential themes in common with Outrun or Mario Kart -- you are in a race. You try to win that race. You have to go around a track in a car/vehicle. Similarities that clearly put them in the racing genre, however vast the differences in gameplay are.
With Gradius and Wing Commander... you are in a ship. Nothing else is even remotely in common. ('you shoot badguys' you say? Yes, but in both the way you shoot baddies and the method to playing the game is so dramatically different that there is no way its even remotely similar...)
You might have been thinking of Star Fox, because THAT is a 3d version of a Gradius-ish game. Not Wing Commander. Star Fox and Gradius ARE different subgenres of the same genre... yes, like cart racers and racing sims.
Okay. Mario Kart revolutionized the kart racer. It improved weapons from previous games, putting a wide variety of them out there to use. It used new technology to look graphically unique. Those are changes to the racing genre, sure... and Mario Kart should be recognized for that.
But it didn't virtually create or totally change a genre like Super Mario Brothers or Wing Commander. It just introduced some new and improved ideas that succeeded and, like all great games, got cloned.
First of all, I never said that Mario Kart isn't a racing game.
Secondly, I stand corrected: you are a hundred times worse than nickdaddyg. Before when you used to argue at least you could reason that maybe you just had a really skewed vision on everything, but this is just plain idiocy.
Mario Kart revolutionized the "kart racing genre"??! It was the first game of its kind, you dolt!! Before Mario Kart all you had were straight-forward racing games like Rad Racer and Outrun! The only similarity Mario Kart had with previous racing games is the fact that you raced around a track, and if you think that that's all that makes a racing game then you truley are more ignorant than any one of us ever imagined.
The main difference between Gradius and Wing Commander is the perspective, and Mario Kart has many more major differences with other games in its genre.
Have I mentioned that you're the biggest hypocrite I've ever met in my entire life? Well there it is again just in case you missed it before. You dumb down Gran Turismo and Mario Kart by saying that you "just race around a track", but when you compare Gradius and Wing Commander you say that "well you're in a ship and you shoot stuff but the way you shoot is different". So you race in GT the same way you do in MK???
And there's nothing revolutionary about Wing Commander, but I wouldn't expect you to know any better. Elite came out long before Wing Commander and showed how the genre should be done.
Quote:Oh, Gamespot gave USA a 6.1, World a 5.9, and Exotica a 5.6. And yes they didn't get much above that from other places. All I can say is that I've always felt that Cruis'n review scores were too low.
Gamespot's Cruis'n scores were way too high, but most sites got it right.