6th June 2003, 10:44 AM
"to suggest that there is no point where pressure becomes too much is ludicrous."
How so? If it's humanly impossible I understand, but how is that you become exempt when someone expects you to max out the human potential?
"I've seen friends of mine become total vegetables because their parents pushed them to be the smartest kid in the grade. I've seen people become mean-spirited because their parents wanted them to be cool."
Yes, that's bad parenting. I'm talking about pushing them to get work done, do it right and take responsibility for it.
"It's a balance."
There is no balance, nor the perception of it in human social structures.
"Sure, I might not have had tons of jobs, but I sure as hell understand the principles that are important for successful life and I believe that I am on a path that leads to successful ends."
Since you know everything, I would suggest you quickly become the President of the United States and then Leader of Earth. I mean think about it, you just contradicted everything that's already been proven and studied through human social development and then you say you know better? Come on.
"I guess we could do it the way our parents' generation did it. By being greedy, backstabbing, power hungry, work obsessive, selfish people. But why would anyone want to follow in their footsteps after how much they managed to screw everything up?"
That is the most offensive fucking thing I have ever heard in my life. You live in a country that allows you to say that because of the people who were brought up on morals and understandings of not only responsibility but of the grander scheme of adult life that you can barely comprehend and you put them down for having balls and being able to fight and stand up to enemies either on a global or personal scale so that they can survive everything from gun fire to professional argumentative conflicts in business that would make MOST people piss their pants with fright all because you think we're screwed NOW because of it? We're screwed up NOW because of NOW because those people are GONE and no one knows how to get it back. I hope to God I’m able to even be considered in the same class of people who raised this country during the 20th Century and did it all in the hopes of a better life for you and I that you just took a dump on.
"this American idea of kicking the kids out at 18 is crap. How does that help them? Oh, by showing that in the real world everyone is selfish and hates you and will do everything they can to tear you down so they can build themselves up. So you better become just like them. Gee, and we are surprised when these corporations lie and steal to make a bigger profit. We are shocked and appauled at politicians who will do anything to get elected just to fuel their ego and gain more power and money. Just look at all these disguting reality shows- the whole object is to see how greedy, hurtful, and perverse you can be to win money! Is that all anyone cares about? In truth, we should change the phrase on our coins to "In Money, our God, we trust".
If you think for one second that money has nothing to do with human beings and life itself in the survival of our species you couldn't be more wrong. Some kid with the IQ of mayonnaise will jump off a building to win $100 bucks but I’ll shovel cow shit for $7 an hour or work as a producer for a film production house and make six figures a week, now you tell me what the difference is. The cold hard fact is that kids need to be kicked out when they're 13; we instinctively want to jeopardize our relationships with our family and become ass-backwards rebellious dill-rods who want to fend for themselves because our brains are desperately trying to get it through your conscious minds that we aren't going to survive by depending on other people. And no you dont become just like them, you learn from it and become better than they are. I'm so sick of hearing the "I'm too afraid to be an asshole" response when what it really comes down to is being afraid of conflict and responsibility for our own actions. You dont overcome perversity in your social structure and immeadiate surroundings by ignoring it and trying to live blindly, you FIGHT it instead of mocking it. Those people do those things because they know they want to conquer their own life but most of it has to do with the fact that these are people raised on the idea of making your parents your best friends and then living in complete fear that you're not the best thing since sliced bread and you have to take all the pressures and stress of the world and put it on your shoulders and pretend you're helping human beings when you're just trying to give yourself the attention and love you need because you cant function in the most advanced civilization since God made ants all because mom and dad didn't know what the fuck they were doing.
You can go to school and learn a trade but can you learn how to justify conflict and deal with co-workers or be able to fire someone you've known for the past 20 years of your ADULT life? You'd be too afraid to deal with yourself if you did that, I'm so fucking sick and tired of the lack of leaders and leadership in this world. No one wants to lead, they're raised in to the idea of following and that if you dont follow you'll fail. And now I’ve got you two telling me that we need more love and care when it's that very same ideal that creates fucking serial killers! Selfish amoral kaleidoscopes of misery birthed and bred on the backs of frightened sheep that cant even deal with the smallest conflicts in their lives without consulting a head shrinker for a pat on the back.
"I'm not saying to hide inside and never come out because the world is a scary place. That's very irresponsible. And parents who spoil their kids harm them because their kids not only become obsessed with money and things; they have no way of providing for themselves. But it's ridiculous to say that if you don't work full time from age 15 and move out before you graduate high school you can't become a functional human being. The only thing you learn is that nobody, not even the people who you trusted and loved, care enough about you to sacrifice their own time and money to help you succeed. You learn that it really is only about me, myself, and I, and maybe that's the world some people want. But I think it sucks."
That mentality is why we're so fucking important in the first place, it's what helped us get this far! And no it doesn't make you think that it's "just you", it does the opposite and helps you realize that ANYTHING you do no matter how great, can be out done and out classed by atleast a few thousand other people in the tri-state area who aren't going to give a flying fajita that you can program a game or write a story and that NO ONE is inherently special but that we only can find that apex by actually accomplishing something ON OUR OWN. Why should ***ANYONE*** try to help a person reach success but YOURSELF. Fuck it, this debate is done, I’m not going to change anyone's mind or offer a new perspective but God dammit this fecking shite pisses me off to the Nth degree to the point of making my piss-filled bladder boil.
How so? If it's humanly impossible I understand, but how is that you become exempt when someone expects you to max out the human potential?
"I've seen friends of mine become total vegetables because their parents pushed them to be the smartest kid in the grade. I've seen people become mean-spirited because their parents wanted them to be cool."
Yes, that's bad parenting. I'm talking about pushing them to get work done, do it right and take responsibility for it.
"It's a balance."
There is no balance, nor the perception of it in human social structures.
"Sure, I might not have had tons of jobs, but I sure as hell understand the principles that are important for successful life and I believe that I am on a path that leads to successful ends."
Since you know everything, I would suggest you quickly become the President of the United States and then Leader of Earth. I mean think about it, you just contradicted everything that's already been proven and studied through human social development and then you say you know better? Come on.
"I guess we could do it the way our parents' generation did it. By being greedy, backstabbing, power hungry, work obsessive, selfish people. But why would anyone want to follow in their footsteps after how much they managed to screw everything up?"
That is the most offensive fucking thing I have ever heard in my life. You live in a country that allows you to say that because of the people who were brought up on morals and understandings of not only responsibility but of the grander scheme of adult life that you can barely comprehend and you put them down for having balls and being able to fight and stand up to enemies either on a global or personal scale so that they can survive everything from gun fire to professional argumentative conflicts in business that would make MOST people piss their pants with fright all because you think we're screwed NOW because of it? We're screwed up NOW because of NOW because those people are GONE and no one knows how to get it back. I hope to God I’m able to even be considered in the same class of people who raised this country during the 20th Century and did it all in the hopes of a better life for you and I that you just took a dump on.
"this American idea of kicking the kids out at 18 is crap. How does that help them? Oh, by showing that in the real world everyone is selfish and hates you and will do everything they can to tear you down so they can build themselves up. So you better become just like them. Gee, and we are surprised when these corporations lie and steal to make a bigger profit. We are shocked and appauled at politicians who will do anything to get elected just to fuel their ego and gain more power and money. Just look at all these disguting reality shows- the whole object is to see how greedy, hurtful, and perverse you can be to win money! Is that all anyone cares about? In truth, we should change the phrase on our coins to "In Money, our God, we trust".
If you think for one second that money has nothing to do with human beings and life itself in the survival of our species you couldn't be more wrong. Some kid with the IQ of mayonnaise will jump off a building to win $100 bucks but I’ll shovel cow shit for $7 an hour or work as a producer for a film production house and make six figures a week, now you tell me what the difference is. The cold hard fact is that kids need to be kicked out when they're 13; we instinctively want to jeopardize our relationships with our family and become ass-backwards rebellious dill-rods who want to fend for themselves because our brains are desperately trying to get it through your conscious minds that we aren't going to survive by depending on other people. And no you dont become just like them, you learn from it and become better than they are. I'm so sick of hearing the "I'm too afraid to be an asshole" response when what it really comes down to is being afraid of conflict and responsibility for our own actions. You dont overcome perversity in your social structure and immeadiate surroundings by ignoring it and trying to live blindly, you FIGHT it instead of mocking it. Those people do those things because they know they want to conquer their own life but most of it has to do with the fact that these are people raised on the idea of making your parents your best friends and then living in complete fear that you're not the best thing since sliced bread and you have to take all the pressures and stress of the world and put it on your shoulders and pretend you're helping human beings when you're just trying to give yourself the attention and love you need because you cant function in the most advanced civilization since God made ants all because mom and dad didn't know what the fuck they were doing.
You can go to school and learn a trade but can you learn how to justify conflict and deal with co-workers or be able to fire someone you've known for the past 20 years of your ADULT life? You'd be too afraid to deal with yourself if you did that, I'm so fucking sick and tired of the lack of leaders and leadership in this world. No one wants to lead, they're raised in to the idea of following and that if you dont follow you'll fail. And now I’ve got you two telling me that we need more love and care when it's that very same ideal that creates fucking serial killers! Selfish amoral kaleidoscopes of misery birthed and bred on the backs of frightened sheep that cant even deal with the smallest conflicts in their lives without consulting a head shrinker for a pat on the back.
"I'm not saying to hide inside and never come out because the world is a scary place. That's very irresponsible. And parents who spoil their kids harm them because their kids not only become obsessed with money and things; they have no way of providing for themselves. But it's ridiculous to say that if you don't work full time from age 15 and move out before you graduate high school you can't become a functional human being. The only thing you learn is that nobody, not even the people who you trusted and loved, care enough about you to sacrifice their own time and money to help you succeed. You learn that it really is only about me, myself, and I, and maybe that's the world some people want. But I think it sucks."
That mentality is why we're so fucking important in the first place, it's what helped us get this far! And no it doesn't make you think that it's "just you", it does the opposite and helps you realize that ANYTHING you do no matter how great, can be out done and out classed by atleast a few thousand other people in the tri-state area who aren't going to give a flying fajita that you can program a game or write a story and that NO ONE is inherently special but that we only can find that apex by actually accomplishing something ON OUR OWN. Why should ***ANYONE*** try to help a person reach success but YOURSELF. Fuck it, this debate is done, I’m not going to change anyone's mind or offer a new perspective but God dammit this fecking shite pisses me off to the Nth degree to the point of making my piss-filled bladder boil.