REVOLUTION CONTROLLER HAS BEEN REVEALED!!!!!

[A Black Falcon]

using that logic makes every controller on the market a rip off of the arcade stick and the roller ball.

I said this repeatedly, and Ryan didn't exactly listen... it's absolutely true, though. Either you say 'the arcade stick is the one real thing and all other digital controls are just improvements, not innovations' or you say that things like the Nintendo D-Pad (and yes, possibly the Intellivision disc too) are innovative. But you can't say what Ryan is saying, where somehow the Intellivision is extra-special...

Okay, so as a toy it was a success, but if you compare it to any video game system in history it was a complete failure. Except maybe if you compared it to the Virtual Boy. I'm sorry Ryan but that logic is absurd, it is a video game system and it is a part of the video game market and in that market it is a failure. I agree that it was still made for years, shit you can buy those plug and play systems now for 20 bucks that have Atari, Intellivision, etc. People would buy them for nostalgia or what have you, but in this industry the Intellivision was not a success as a home video game console.

It sold something like 6 million units, a failure compared to the 2600 or NES, but about as good as Colecovision I think... not exactly a great success but hardly worthy of Virtual Boy comparison I think.

You yourself said that the d-pad was an necessary evolution. If Nintendo made the NES with a disk instead, and Sega made the d-pad - We would be having a Sega Vs. Intellivision debate. That OMG CROSS design, is what makes a d-pad a d-pad, and it what makes it so innovative over the disk design. It was an evolution, and Nintendo founded it. In evolutionary terms, the disk on the intellivision is the is a mutant gene, the d-pad is the refined gene found in all DNA

Yes. :)

I agree for the most part and I happen to like the c-buttons alot more than a second stick (PD ) but games like Pikmin and Luigi's Mansion could not have been done without two sticks. I think Sony wanted to make their controller seem better saying "we have two instead of one!" while most developers use the second stick for changing camera and little else, most of the time the same functions could have been applied to 4 c-buttons (which is basically a d-pad) anyway.

Yes, they could have. There is no game that is impossible to play with digital controls instead of analog... you'd just have less precision on the second stick. See: PC FPSes. One control digital, the other analog.

Hey lazy, does the analog stick part have a motion sensor though? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't matter where you held the analog stick part, as the machine would not be able to detect it.

... what are you referring to here (from Lazy's post)? No quotes + reply to long post = confusing.

As for this argument, all you two are showing each other is you have two different definitions for what constitutes innovation. Weltall sees it from a more technical standpoint, and lazy sees it more from the view of what effect it has in the industry. By the latter, it's hard to call any invention that fails an innovation because it failed. By the former, every invention that is original enough in it's functionality is an innovation, even if it never even makes it off the drawing board.

Neither one is wrong. I tend to go with the former myself simply because I'm a technically minded person, but the latter is just as valid and appropriate a definition.

Yes, you're probably right.

However...

I agree with your assessment of the argument but Ryan is seriously just trying to piss off Nintendo fans on a Nintendo forum with rediculous claims because he's bored. It pains him to say nice things about Nintendo and he's purposefully looking for things he can use to lower his own opinion of Nintendo further. It's the same reason parents beat up their kids, it makes him feel like a big man.

Being a little harsh there, but there's truth here too. :)