20th May 2005, 11:23 AM
A special note directed to the arrogance of OB1:
Is it possible that I am simply more artistic than you and I see things in a better sense? I think that Titanic was one of the best films ever made simply because it was so well made... just as I think that Episodes IV-VI are some of the best storytelling and filmmaking ever achieved. Episodes I-III fall far, far, far, far away short of that. In that I mean that you are a moron and are less enthralled by good cinema than by flashy, colorful computer graphics. A pile of dogshit with the Fox fanfare preceding it and George Lucas' name stamped into it would make you jizz your pants. It is you who are the pitiful simpleton.
...and now back to the debate!
Well, from the scenes they showed, they were the only wookies. If they were the only Wookies left. I do understand your point, and I do recognize that Lucas did it to appease hardcore fans (I admit I smiled when I knew it was Chewbacca). But in all honesty, it doesn't come off as cheasy at all to me; it seems perfectly plausible. Particularly when you take into account that the events in Episode 3 give Chewbacca perfect motives for participating in the later episodes.
Well at least you see my point without being an egotistical fuckbag like OB1.
My point was that there was conflict within Anakin since Episode 2. The way he resigns into Dark side seems almost as though he feels he has to. He has given into the temptation that had been dangled in front of him for some time.
I understand that the conflict was building for years, and that his angry-dark side are shown throughout Episode II (most notably when he slaughters the Tuskens), but it's the final fall that was too brief. All of that anger, building for years, should have had a huge zenith... it did not. Maybe it's just as well, because I don't think that Christenesen had the skill to perform it anyway.
Yoda failed to defeat him the first time, what logic is there in fighting him a second time when he would be more well prepared?? There is far greater logic in leaving, and waiting until the time is right to take him on again. Which is what he did. Had he gone on to try and fight him again, and died, then Episodes 4,5,6 wouldn't have had a happy ending.
Yoda never tried again--and in fact, it was with enormous, VAST reluctance that he agreed to train Luke. The fact that he simply leaves the hapless galaxy to the whims of Palpatine after a 5-minute battle makes me lose much respect for the wisdom of Yoda.
He participated. And Anakin didn't pilot it. He even says that being able to pilot the ship is irrelevent, because the best he can hope to do is not crash it in the worst possible way. He guided it to a relatively safe landing. And he is also cocky, arrogant and brash. There was no time for self-doubt. He was in a situation and had to address it properly. By doing his best to land safely.
I'll accept that as a reasonably thorough defense and abdicate that point.
Instead, he took it as an insult. He's done all this 'for her', yet she doesn't appreciate it. She's been influenced by someone he now hates and has turned against him. This merely serves to feed his hate and anger even further. I'd say the only reason he didn't kill her is because he loved her, so it did make some difference.
A good insight; I abdicate.
The only thing that I could think of that could be construed as slightly lame is the world with all the colorful giant flowers, but that was a stylistic choice, rather than terrible CG..
That one, above all, made me roll my eyes. I understand that this is a space fantasy, but they should maintain some level of realism... and that one was not at all convincingly well done. A matte painting might have served better, or maybe Lucas should have designed it to be less intricate... he has to live within his means, and computer technology, while very far, cannot create THAT convincing of a world. Not yet.
Well, that's an odd way to look at it. He only does a few acrobatic things, and his whining is nothing more than acting. The rest of the time is him showcasing his puppetteering prowess and his knowledge of the force. To me it seems like the same character as in Return of the Jedi, only it showcases him even better.
I see your point, but I still feel as though the Emperor from RotJ is almost a different character all together. Since this is only a difference of opinion, there is no point in arguing it.
True, Dooku could have done the same job, but he had already served his purpose as another plot device. If I was to complain about his character, it's that it didn't really show him kicking any ass. I'd have liked to have seen exactly how he obtained those Jedi sabres, to really build up the fight between he and OB1.
Maybe what I mean here is that Lucas created an exodus of irrelevent characters. In ANH, there's the principal trio: Luke, Leia, Han.. (and Chewbacca and the droids.) They meet lesser characters, and fight Vader. In TESB, it's them all again... plus Lando, and maybe Boba Fett if you consider him a major character. In ROTJ, it's them all again; plus the Emperor. In these last three, he throws in major, colorful, CG-animated characters way too much. JarJar Binks? Boss Nass... Grievous, those Geonosians... I suppose it's just me, but I'd rather be watching actors than cartoon characters. That's what Star Wars used to be to me. Not a 2.5 hour-long videogame. OB1 will never understand that because he loves that new style of ultra-colorful, ultra-fake filmmaking that I loathe.
Well, sometimes in movies some things are better left unexplained. Particularly in fantasy. Here's another plausible explaination that I came up with: It wasn't the lightning that scarred him, but his use of the power. Perhaps it took a lot out of him, so much so that it sped of the aging process 100fold.
Well maybe, but why didn't that occur again when he used so much more force lightning against Yoda a few scenes later; or on RotJ?
Eh.. They might merely be too scared to question it. Or just far too under his influences. I don't know, it didn't stop me from suspending my disbelief. It's fantasy involving all sorts of magical powers, afterall. And he was influencing everyones minds, consciously and subcounsciously. Everything he did in the movie (and obviously anything that he would have done in the universe that obviously would not be shown in the movie) was plotted and planned by him so as to tighten his strangehold on the senate.
I know how good of a crafty politician he was, but a senate comprised of able-minded delegations from every civilized world, just applaudes it? I can't digest it. I'm being pessimistic maybe, but it's just not convincing to me.
It's almost like arguing: Did no one in Germany disagree with what Hitler was doing?
Yes they did--because that was real-life. Lucas should have added that dissent in his movies to add some reality and make it more believable. Without this extra real dimension, it's just a children's movie. "Don't question it!"
It was hardly jumbled together. It was extremely exciting mixing the two final confrontations together.. And what you said implies that it confused you...
What I said implies that it may be confusing to some. I had no note of reflexion in that statement. Trust me, I had not trouble following the plot. I knew it months in advance.
But you made a stupid arguement. You really think anyone who is pregnant doesn't even bother to even contimplate a babies name until the moment it is born? It's something that doesn't need to be explained.
I just would have liked to know where the names came from, if anywhere.
That doesn't necessarily mean that any means of anesthesia is available. Particularly given the rushed/makeshift circumstances that they were in..
Maybe; but I dunno... anesthesia isn't that hard in any emergency situation even in our world. I can't imagine it's difficult to come across in the Star Wars galaxy. Even just a glass of juri juice...
Oh.. well you should have said that. Fair enough. I disagree. But it could be another way of Lucas trying to subconsciously convey Anakin turning into a monster. One who is confused and misunderstood at that.
All right.
Is it possible that I am simply more artistic than you and I see things in a better sense? I think that Titanic was one of the best films ever made simply because it was so well made... just as I think that Episodes IV-VI are some of the best storytelling and filmmaking ever achieved. Episodes I-III fall far, far, far, far away short of that. In that I mean that you are a moron and are less enthralled by good cinema than by flashy, colorful computer graphics. A pile of dogshit with the Fox fanfare preceding it and George Lucas' name stamped into it would make you jizz your pants. It is you who are the pitiful simpleton.
...and now back to the debate!
Well, from the scenes they showed, they were the only wookies. If they were the only Wookies left. I do understand your point, and I do recognize that Lucas did it to appease hardcore fans (I admit I smiled when I knew it was Chewbacca). But in all honesty, it doesn't come off as cheasy at all to me; it seems perfectly plausible. Particularly when you take into account that the events in Episode 3 give Chewbacca perfect motives for participating in the later episodes.
Well at least you see my point without being an egotistical fuckbag like OB1.
My point was that there was conflict within Anakin since Episode 2. The way he resigns into Dark side seems almost as though he feels he has to. He has given into the temptation that had been dangled in front of him for some time.
I understand that the conflict was building for years, and that his angry-dark side are shown throughout Episode II (most notably when he slaughters the Tuskens), but it's the final fall that was too brief. All of that anger, building for years, should have had a huge zenith... it did not. Maybe it's just as well, because I don't think that Christenesen had the skill to perform it anyway.
Yoda failed to defeat him the first time, what logic is there in fighting him a second time when he would be more well prepared?? There is far greater logic in leaving, and waiting until the time is right to take him on again. Which is what he did. Had he gone on to try and fight him again, and died, then Episodes 4,5,6 wouldn't have had a happy ending.
Yoda never tried again--and in fact, it was with enormous, VAST reluctance that he agreed to train Luke. The fact that he simply leaves the hapless galaxy to the whims of Palpatine after a 5-minute battle makes me lose much respect for the wisdom of Yoda.
He participated. And Anakin didn't pilot it. He even says that being able to pilot the ship is irrelevent, because the best he can hope to do is not crash it in the worst possible way. He guided it to a relatively safe landing. And he is also cocky, arrogant and brash. There was no time for self-doubt. He was in a situation and had to address it properly. By doing his best to land safely.
I'll accept that as a reasonably thorough defense and abdicate that point.
Instead, he took it as an insult. He's done all this 'for her', yet she doesn't appreciate it. She's been influenced by someone he now hates and has turned against him. This merely serves to feed his hate and anger even further. I'd say the only reason he didn't kill her is because he loved her, so it did make some difference.
A good insight; I abdicate.
The only thing that I could think of that could be construed as slightly lame is the world with all the colorful giant flowers, but that was a stylistic choice, rather than terrible CG..
That one, above all, made me roll my eyes. I understand that this is a space fantasy, but they should maintain some level of realism... and that one was not at all convincingly well done. A matte painting might have served better, or maybe Lucas should have designed it to be less intricate... he has to live within his means, and computer technology, while very far, cannot create THAT convincing of a world. Not yet.
Well, that's an odd way to look at it. He only does a few acrobatic things, and his whining is nothing more than acting. The rest of the time is him showcasing his puppetteering prowess and his knowledge of the force. To me it seems like the same character as in Return of the Jedi, only it showcases him even better.
I see your point, but I still feel as though the Emperor from RotJ is almost a different character all together. Since this is only a difference of opinion, there is no point in arguing it.
True, Dooku could have done the same job, but he had already served his purpose as another plot device. If I was to complain about his character, it's that it didn't really show him kicking any ass. I'd have liked to have seen exactly how he obtained those Jedi sabres, to really build up the fight between he and OB1.
Maybe what I mean here is that Lucas created an exodus of irrelevent characters. In ANH, there's the principal trio: Luke, Leia, Han.. (and Chewbacca and the droids.) They meet lesser characters, and fight Vader. In TESB, it's them all again... plus Lando, and maybe Boba Fett if you consider him a major character. In ROTJ, it's them all again; plus the Emperor. In these last three, he throws in major, colorful, CG-animated characters way too much. JarJar Binks? Boss Nass... Grievous, those Geonosians... I suppose it's just me, but I'd rather be watching actors than cartoon characters. That's what Star Wars used to be to me. Not a 2.5 hour-long videogame. OB1 will never understand that because he loves that new style of ultra-colorful, ultra-fake filmmaking that I loathe.
Well, sometimes in movies some things are better left unexplained. Particularly in fantasy. Here's another plausible explaination that I came up with: It wasn't the lightning that scarred him, but his use of the power. Perhaps it took a lot out of him, so much so that it sped of the aging process 100fold.
Well maybe, but why didn't that occur again when he used so much more force lightning against Yoda a few scenes later; or on RotJ?
Eh.. They might merely be too scared to question it. Or just far too under his influences. I don't know, it didn't stop me from suspending my disbelief. It's fantasy involving all sorts of magical powers, afterall. And he was influencing everyones minds, consciously and subcounsciously. Everything he did in the movie (and obviously anything that he would have done in the universe that obviously would not be shown in the movie) was plotted and planned by him so as to tighten his strangehold on the senate.
I know how good of a crafty politician he was, but a senate comprised of able-minded delegations from every civilized world, just applaudes it? I can't digest it. I'm being pessimistic maybe, but it's just not convincing to me.
It's almost like arguing: Did no one in Germany disagree with what Hitler was doing?
Yes they did--because that was real-life. Lucas should have added that dissent in his movies to add some reality and make it more believable. Without this extra real dimension, it's just a children's movie. "Don't question it!"
It was hardly jumbled together. It was extremely exciting mixing the two final confrontations together.. And what you said implies that it confused you...
What I said implies that it may be confusing to some. I had no note of reflexion in that statement. Trust me, I had not trouble following the plot. I knew it months in advance.
But you made a stupid arguement. You really think anyone who is pregnant doesn't even bother to even contimplate a babies name until the moment it is born? It's something that doesn't need to be explained.
I just would have liked to know where the names came from, if anywhere.
That doesn't necessarily mean that any means of anesthesia is available. Particularly given the rushed/makeshift circumstances that they were in..
Maybe; but I dunno... anesthesia isn't that hard in any emergency situation even in our world. I can't imagine it's difficult to come across in the Star Wars galaxy. Even just a glass of juri juice...
Oh.. well you should have said that. Fair enough. I disagree. But it could be another way of Lucas trying to subconsciously convey Anakin turning into a monster. One who is confused and misunderstood at that.
All right.
H.R.M. DARVNIVS MAXIMVS EX TENEBRIS EXIT REX DEVSQVE GORONORVMQVE TENDORVM ROMANORVM ET GRÆCORVM OMNIS SEMPER EST