22nd February 2005, 3:22 PM
Quote:You see, that right there is what creates an endless circle of hate. You think that I can't admit when I'm wrong, so whenever you know that I'm actually right, YOU refuse to admit that YOU'RE wrong. I must agree with you that I don't admit defeat very often.
Yeah.
Quote:But that has nothing to do with pride, believe it or not, it's simply because I still believe that what I'm saying is true.
I know that, and that's what makes talking with you almost impossible: even with incontrivertable proof you resist admitting you're wrong.
Saying "You're wrong a lot but won't admit it while I'm right all the time and the fact that I won't admit it is fine because I'm actually always right" is quite arrogant and self-centered, and definitely not true. NO ONE is always right.
"You should admit it when you're wrong and I'll admit it when I'm wrong (and meaning it) is a much better thing to say... if you could admit to yourself that you're wrong about anything.
Quote:You see the thing is that I rarely ever get into a debate on a subject that I don't know much about, which seems to be the opposite with you.
You have sometimes... how about PC RPGs (on PC)? I surely have a whole lot more experience with that genre than you do. You have some, but not with a whole lot of the games I mention... so it DOES go both ways.
Quote:It's never a matter of me not wanting to listen to your point of view, it's a matter of me fully understanding your point of view but disagreeing with it. If I feel a certain way about something and all you have as a counterpoint is "you are wrong", then that is not going to change my mind.
That's just not true so, so often... it's often me with the long, complex posts and you with the paragraph or two that are half insults! Oh, sure, not always, but a LOT of the time that's the way it goes. Of course, does that mean my posts are all full of correct facts? Quite probably not. But insults and "YOU ARE STUPID YOU IDIOT HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY BELIEVE SUCH DUMB THINGS???111" is not, and never will be, an effective way to refute a point...
Especially when I feel like I've disproven your case several times and you won't listen, like also seems to happen, from my perspective, with frequency.
Quote:Take that old Banjo Pilot "debate" as an example. Say what you will about me but lazy has even worse debating skills than I do and will simply attack someone for not understanding his point of view rather than trying to explain it better. In that thread I did not think that making a racing game where you controlled Banjo-Kazooie in the same way that you do in their platforming games would make a whole lot of sense, and lazy's points did not change my mind at first. He basically said that it's all cartoon crap so believability goes out the window, while I believe that there has to be a certain level of believability within the context of a cartoon. So we went back and forth with insults and he finally came up with another idea which would actually make sense (instead of the Kazooie-goes-on-top way they fly in the platformers, Kazooie would act as a plane and Banjo would sit on top of her, using her tail like a propeller), and I admitted that that method sounded good and made perfect sense. If only lazy had made that particular suggestion from the very beginning. Our arguing actually forced him to come up with a way that would make perfect sense, so in the end we both were effectively "right". However, after I admitted that this method would work you guys refused to end the debate and continued to throw out insults about how wrong I was for not agreeing with lazy in the beginning. So naturally I left the stupid debate for good. That is a perfect example of me being convinced of another opinion and accepting "defeat" (it's not really defeat but you guys can call it what you like).
Sounds like what I've described before as the one way you change your mind: By changing your position slowly until it encompasses what is correct instead of what you originally said, without ever admitting anything of the sort. You do that often near the ends of debates... after lots of yelling...
Really, can't you see that there's a better way? You don't have to respond to someone saying something you disagree with with yelling, insults, and a refusal to consider their position! Oh, sure, it's fine to defend your own position (as I do), but in a reasoned way...
Quote:Brian, you simply don't have convincing arguments and your points rarely ever have good reasoning, IMO. And since you don't want to fix this endless cycle because of your pride nothing will ever change. That is all I will say about this. I am not going to participate in another argument.
You enter with the preconception that I won't make any sense so even when I do you discount and ignore it. So of course I don't have any convincing arguements... you look at them really, really hard for every potential little niggle and then try to rip me apart over it. It's really, really hard to "debate" you because of how few facts you put in so many of your posts in arguements, which is why I end up repeating myself so much... either that or because both of us just restate our cases over and over in a circle until we give up. Both ways happen.