22nd February 2005, 12:59 PM
Quote:It's said here that OB1 argues with everyone, and can be such an itch under the skin that one can't help but try to scratch it. Personally, I disagree. I've gotten into some heated debates over Star Wars with him, and a few other things of little importance, but I never get into long, novelistic flamewars with him. Why? Partially because I know him, and I know belaboring the point can be a fruitless task with him. I know that his endurance is beyond legendary, even if his patience is anything but. However, even when he and I disagree, we never get into thermonuclear wars. Why? Because I do know when to stop. Yes, OB1 does seem to always have the last word, but so do those of you who toe it out with him (read: ABF). The two of you go on for ages, and I have always said it's because you both love the thrill of the fight, or whatever you call it. However, some of you are as guilty of not knowing when to stop as he is. ABF, I'm looking at you now. (Funny enough, if there's anyone that I find irresistable to argue with, it's ABF... but even then, it does sometimes get to a point where there's no point in going on).
I hate arguing with him because he won't debate. Other people here debate... you, DJ, Smoke, N_A, GR... but OB1? He does not debate. He believes that insults and yelling are effective debating tools and that a great tactic is mischaracterizing what the other person means and then convincing yourself that despite their denials they actually meant what you convinced yourself of, not what they're saying (if you listen to what they're saying at all)...
It is my firm belief that anyone who believes that about OB1 doesn't argue with him. EM said that he used to believe similar things... until this debate started and he saw how OB1 gets when he's mad. DJ's long post in the main thread also had a more realistic assessment of OB1 when he's angry. Not saying (and/or defending) things he disagrees with is the best way to stay on his good side, for sure... "I know when to stop" to me is code for "I back down when he gets insistent that I am stupid and wrong". I don't do that, and keep trying to say that I meant what I meant and actually dare to keep questioning his points, so he aims a lot of anger my way.
If you didn't see OB1 in the way he gets, it's either because you left the arguement before it got to that point, someone changed the subject, or if you have forgotten how he had came across since the arguement occurred.
http://tcforums.com/forums/showthread.ph...=star+wars
http://tcforums.com/forums/showthread.ph...=star+wars
Just read this and try to equate it with the OB1 you described above.
Quote:Tendo City can be a great place to be sometimes, but for the most part it's a real drag. ABF has the amazing ability to turn everything into a heated debate, and I'm not one to back down to easily. If you've ever looked at the end of our big argument threads you'll see that 95% of the time it's me who leaves the debate. It's very time consuming and believe it or not I hate getting into arguments. The only reason I do is because I hate letting people get away with making inane comments and ridiculous claims. But I almost always have to abandon an argument with that guy. Worst yet is that he fails to do the very thing that he claims that I cannot do: admit defeat. It's an endless cycle that I do not care to participate in any longer.
I really do think that we need to de-admin a lot of people here. I'm the only one aside from you, Ryan, who has used my admin powers to help the forum. You showed me how to fix TC when it goes down and I've done it countless times over the years. I've been deleting the largest images through the control panel as per your request, and I'm the only one who splits threads that ABF and I ruin. ABF has yet to do that even once.
I really shouldn't have to once again restate myself and show yet again how OB1 is so quick to anger and so slow to let it go, gets extremely angry over random and virtually irrelevant things, and clings to mistaken and repeatedly disproven misconceptions of people and statements that he's convinced himself of (here, his ridiculous characterizations of me), should I? OB1 has once again done my work for me. Just this time in a place more people will see.
Oh, one more thing... something frequently said here that annoys me every time it's said.
Quote:The two of you go on for ages, and I have always said it's because you both love the thrill of the fight, or whatever you call it. However, some of you are as guilty of not knowing when to stop as he is. ABF, I'm looking at you now.
I like debating, and I like long conversations and discussions of things. I don't mind spending an hour on a reply if it's worth it, and expect someone who replies to have something equally worth reading (in quality if not in length) in reply. OB1 is one of the only people here who doesn't flee from long posts with that stupid statement of "it's too long, I can't handle it" that so many people seem to have... (I hate that, running from real discussions... and then some of those people say that TC doesn't have enough content? What the heck? You don't CONTRIBUTE! (and no, a one line post a couple times a week doesn't count.))
Anyway, I like that, yes. I do not like arguing with OB1, however. The distinction is clear -- 'argue' vs. 'debate'. Debate implies a flow of discussion back and forth, debate over the points made and their relative merits, and hopefully eventually a mutually satisfactory resolution.
'Arguement' implies raised voices, insults and/or swearing, using few facts, etc.
So, something comes up. OB1 and I disagree. It starts as debate and quickly becomes arguement. Then neither of us will back down so it just continues... not because we love to repeat ourselves but because I, like him, don't want to be the one to say "I am wrong in something I believe to be right"... of course the problem is that by that point what is right, and what would be the right way to get to the truth in the matter, is often lost and both of us are just repeating probably-somewhat-accurate-but-also-somewhat-wrong statements, but... for various reasons, that's what happens most of the time when OB1 and I argue.
Sure, I think I'm the more reasonable one by far. But of course sometimes I'm wrong. The problem is that with the way OB1 discusses/debates/argues, it's really hard to reach any kind of conclusion... if he won't admit wrongness on any of the things I see him being wrong about is there a lot of reason for me to admit being wrong on the things he might be right about? And then of course sometimes I get annoyed at him too and it's hopeless.