5th October 2004, 2:01 PM
Quote:I don't know why I bother when I know you will come back with idiotic "responses" like that one... sure my post was a bit confusing (that always happens when you go back and add in paragraphs without rewriting the whole thing), but still... I really hate it when I spend a long time to make a post like that one and you clearly ignore it and don't pay any attention to what I have to say. I mean, to all that all you can say is "you are wrong and stupid and my opinions are right and your are dumb"? Do you HONESTLY expect me to take your opinions seriously when you so clearly do not act like a person who should be listened to? I guess I just expect too much when I hope you will act intelligently...
I spent something like 45 plus minuites on that post. It looks like it took you five mintuites to throw out that reply. Sure you don't need to be as detailed as I was but you could at least TRY to actually make it a debate... or discussion, or whatever... it only becomes an arguement because you want it to with how you act, I think.
I've probably spent a total of ten years repeating myself over and over to you (amazing considering that TC has only existed since 1999), so excuse me if I don't feel like wasting any more of my time on your inane retorts.
Quote:You make no sense. This and Doom? Huh? Their art styles have nothing in common! It's about trying to be high fantasy as western high fantasy has always been drawn. And I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's a great art style.Yes, what I meant was that the styles are exactly the same. Well done, Brian. Well done.
They both share immature dark art styles commonly seen drawn by that one brooding kid from 8th grade english class.
Quote:Also, you need to grow up and realize, like many adults do, that their view of the world is not absolute... people who don't realize that don't act as grown up. The way you constantly insist that your way is the only way that could ever be right is not acting like an adult. This discussion is a case in point.I love it how you criticize me for acting like my opinion is fact when the post in question was a response to a comment you made about BG's art being objectively better than KOTOR's! If only this hypocrisy were something new from you I could get a kick out of it.
Quote:I don't understand why you hate D&D artwork so much... so it is influenced greatly by past fantasy. So? All fantasy is! It's not the most unique graphical style ever but very few games are truly unique... but what I really don't get is what you want from the graphics. I'd say that making them very well done fantasy artwork should be the goal and they succeed at that. And it's not like D&D has nothing unique... lots of the monsters are unique to D&D! Sure stuff like Orcs, Trolls, and Goblins are all over but D&D (and, to be specific, the Forgotten Realms) have all kinds of unique monsters... Illithids, Beholders, Gelatious Cubes, etc, etc... and anyway I think that basing your artwork on high fantasy as we know it is the right choice. D&D IS high fantasy, so any other choice would be kind of silly I think...
It also depends on what you mean by 'art'. Do you mean character art or backgrounds? I think the monsters are fine and the backgrounds are fantastic for the most part, but I'd admit that the character (and NPC) art could be better in the BG engine... in that respect KotOR probably wins. But once I look beyond the characters and look at the world as a whole I cannot give it the victory. BG's backgrounds are just so much better looking than the mostly mediocre 3d environments in KotOR... as well as larger (or larger seeming at least) and more varied.
But as I said in the previous post the biggest problem here isn't that, it's how you ignore everything I say. I talked about so many issues and you pull out this one that has been beaten to death before... why? Don't want to bother to actually 'think' about what I was saying? And it doesn't really work in other ways too... after all, that segement was primarially about KotOR, not BG (yes I was comparing the two, but it was as much about KotOR as BG...), which you would have known had you actually read it.
If I ignore anything it's because either a) I don't think it needs to be responded to or b) it's something I've responded to far too many times already and I refuse to repeat myself.
BG's art is very unappealing to me, it's the type of art I kind of liked a bit when I was younger and in my dark art phase, and since then I've discovered that there are more colors than just grey and black and that even then this sort of stuff wasn't doing it well. There's no soul in that art, it's as bland and generic as can be.
Quote:I'd love to hear why you think you are oh so much more knowledgable than everyone else about this... but I understand storytelling just fine. And BG has a decently done story... but as I said, it has problems with slow pacing (that is, how the story is quite drawn out and you get it little bits at a time interspaced with lots of gameplay). I don't mind that much because there are all kinds of people to talk to and new places to go, but when I compare it to BGII I understand what Bioware meant when they said that BGI's story was a problem (and the result of a freshman effort)... BGII's is much deeper and more complex and keeps moving at a much better pace.
As for the optional reading books, I guess you are comparing that to Metroid Prime and your opinions on story there, but it doesn't work, I think. Prime's optional reading directly explained the game's backstory. The vast majority of the BG optional reading (books and scrolls) does not do that. They tell self-contained tales that have no bearing on the game and are just there to read for fun if you wish. That isn't bad storytelling because it doesn't really have an effect on the overall game's story!
ABF, I'm sorry but you haven't the slightest clueas to what good storytelling is. I don't fault you for that, but continuing to think that you are knowledgeable about this when in reality you're completely clueless of the facts only make you look stupid. You think that as long as the ingredients are in there somewhere, it doesn't matter how it all comes together. Bad storytelling and good storytelling is like making a pie. Even if all of the same individual ingredients are there, it all comes down to the construction of the pie and how it is presented. You can't just mix all of the ingredients in one giant bowl and stick it in the oven. That's now how it works. There's a certain order of things, you have to layer everything carefully, know what to mix together and when to add it in.