Another thread ruined by OB1 and ABF! (a.k.a. 2004 Goron Game Awards!)

[OB1]

Those are totally different games. And F-Zero is not anywhere near as simplistic as Cruis'n! Cruis'n is simplistic to the extreme. That is simply not true for F-Zero. Also, Cruis'n has intentionally easy courses -- the turns aren't too hard or too steep and that is by design. The main challenge is the oncoming traffic... but that is how it is SUPPOSED to be! The designer said so. Disagree with his design choices fine but don't mistake it for what it was never meant to be. You clearly are doing that...

Design choices?? Haha, what a lame excuse. I love racing games where you have to avoid oncoming traffic, but none of the Cruisin' games offer any sort of fun. They're crap, plain and simple!

Just trying to remember the various arguements you've said in numerous threads that could relate to this. And I think I did a decent job of it... but it's tough when you say so many sometimes conflicting things about this stuff. I don't remember you making one succinct statement of your problems with those games... you've said various things in various threads every once in a while, really...

It don't have to make succinct comments. It's a complicated genre with many reasons for not liking it.

Like, when we talked about story you said that BG and Fallout had poorly done stories. Based on what you said was a few, but not too many, hours of play. If that is correct it doesn't seem like a particularly well supported (or astute) analysis... (oh, and this is, as far as I can remember, the only place you talked about Fallout)

I played much more BG than Fallout, and I complained about BG's poor storytelling methods.

Then in the other recent arguement you said that you greatly prefer direct controls. My response for games like BG is that you should think of them as strategic RPGs... as in greatly influenced by strategy games, which is understandable when you look at the history of the RPG (D&D decended from wargames, for instance, as did modern strategy games).

And I responded by saying that if I want to play a strategy game then I'll play Total War or Fire Emblem. I play RPGs for very different reasons.

Then in various discussions you say you dislike how complex the control scheme and interface is in lots of PC games (and BG in particular)... I guess it is moderately so but don't think of that as a bad thing at all. Different opinions...

I never once said that.

Hmm, were there any other major categories (that would affect this)? I'm sure I'm forgetting something but don't know what it is...

The immersion factor, you forgot about that. That ties into controls and perspective.