23rd February 2003, 11:40 PM
One of my favorite games? Oh come on... Gauntlet Legends is a good game, but hardly one of my favorites...
As for D&D, I love the setting... and like the games. Baldur's Gate (1 or 2) and Torment are some of the best games ever... great, great games. Dark Alliance on GC is good too, for a Diablo clone... I love fantasy stuff so I like D&D... its a great classic fantasy setting. Overused? No... used a lot? Yes. But the games are mostly very good... especially the deep PC RPG's like Baldur's Gate.
The Nameless One. Main character of Planescape: Torment... IMO the game with the best story of any game ever.
I didn't contradict myself... you just don't seem to understand what I'm saying... and it matters because you are arguing about it and don't seem capable of understanding what I'm saying! I mean... I say something, then you go on and on about how I'm wrong when I'm agreeing with you on that point... I just don't get it...
What do I think? Exactly as I said.. .I really don't want to have to say it again... I've already said it 3 times!
Is innovation innovation whether its recognized or not? Well... as long as it actually does innovate, yeah... but if its not popularly accepted as a good thing, then it doesn't matter since no one will see it as innovative... or they will see it as innovation that they don't like. Both of those happen frequently... lots of truly great, innovative games aren't recognized as good by the public and are ignored and not bought... it happens all the time as I'm sure you know given how we've discussed it so many times... or do I have to mention Looking Glass again?
However... it does require SOMEONE to recognize it as innovative at some time for it to matter that the product was innovative... if no one ever sees it as such, it is technically innovation, but not relevant innovation.
I still say that the changes in Zelda TWW aren't innovative but are just more normal improvements that go in sequels... sequels can change stuff and improve games without innovating. That's what happened in WW... its a big change, but not innovative because it HAS been done before... or at least things like it have, if not exactly this.
I doubt it... but I'm not going to go looking for games that would fit now... I just know that while the game is clearly a great example of how a cartoonish game would look and play, I don't think this is the first time its ever been done...
Oh... one last thing, back on the D&D topic. If you hate it so much, do you like Fallout, Fallout 2, and Arcanum? Or the upcoming Lionheart? All of those are very good PC RPG games that are far from being in a standard fantasy setting...
As for D&D, I love the setting... and like the games. Baldur's Gate (1 or 2) and Torment are some of the best games ever... great, great games. Dark Alliance on GC is good too, for a Diablo clone... I love fantasy stuff so I like D&D... its a great classic fantasy setting. Overused? No... used a lot? Yes. But the games are mostly very good... especially the deep PC RPG's like Baldur's Gate.
![[Image: Torment_line1.jpg]](http://pcmedia.ign.com/media/previews/image/Torment_line1.jpg)
The Nameless One. Main character of Planescape: Torment... IMO the game with the best story of any game ever.
Quote:Perhaps you should learn how not to contradict yourself all of the time.
Quote:So... what's your point then? Why does that matter?
I didn't contradict myself... you just don't seem to understand what I'm saying... and it matters because you are arguing about it and don't seem capable of understanding what I'm saying! I mean... I say something, then you go on and on about how I'm wrong when I'm agreeing with you on that point... I just don't get it...
What do I think? Exactly as I said.. .I really don't want to have to say it again... I've already said it 3 times!
Is innovation innovation whether its recognized or not? Well... as long as it actually does innovate, yeah... but if its not popularly accepted as a good thing, then it doesn't matter since no one will see it as innovative... or they will see it as innovation that they don't like. Both of those happen frequently... lots of truly great, innovative games aren't recognized as good by the public and are ignored and not bought... it happens all the time as I'm sure you know given how we've discussed it so many times... or do I have to mention Looking Glass again?
However... it does require SOMEONE to recognize it as innovative at some time for it to matter that the product was innovative... if no one ever sees it as such, it is technically innovation, but not relevant innovation.
I still say that the changes in Zelda TWW aren't innovative but are just more normal improvements that go in sequels... sequels can change stuff and improve games without innovating. That's what happened in WW... its a big change, but not innovative because it HAS been done before... or at least things like it have, if not exactly this.
Quote:Cel-shading has been done before, but no one has ever used it as ingeniously as Nintendo has. They've truley created a fully interactive cartoon. It's all about the animation.
I doubt it... but I'm not going to go looking for games that would fit now... I just know that while the game is clearly a great example of how a cartoonish game would look and play, I don't think this is the first time its ever been done...
Oh... one last thing, back on the D&D topic. If you hate it so much, do you like Fallout, Fallout 2, and Arcanum? Or the upcoming Lionheart? All of those are very good PC RPG games that are far from being in a standard fantasy setting...