3rd May 2004, 4:18 PM
Before 3rd edition they didn't have MP? That's odd... Oh, so are you saying you have to relearn spells or something? Why would they forget how to cast a spell after using it? MP isn't that unrealistic, it's like a well of magic within yourself that you can only tap so much before you run out of that spiritual energy. Oh and, as you may have guessed, yes 3rd edition DOES have MP. Also, the stats CAN be upgraded on certain levels and you choose where to assign the extra points you get occasionally.
Anyway, the math aside, it's still all based on probability. It's not having to solve equtations that's a problem. KOTOR for example did all the equations for you and you never had to do any of the math yourself (I love science, but I really do not enjoy math, well not the actual DOING of the math, though I enjoy complicated math principles and rules). It would basically just tell you, as you put it above, how much damage the weapon could potentially do. Rolling 2 four sided really IS better odds than a single 8 sided. I'd always pick that anyway, and it generally was evenly distributed between 2 and 8, never really gathering up on either side of it.
Sorry ABF, but playing with probabilities is utterly boring to me and in the end when chance is the supreme factor, I don't decide things. Yes, as you said, and I pointed out above, when you get significantly stronger, you WILL win more often because the 20 variable just isn't as significant a change, but to be forced to play a long way into a game just to defeat one of the key parts of the system just isn't enjoyable to me. Chance is not fun for me at all, and I've always despised elements that are random rather than controlled by me. When I win early on, I never feel like I earned it, just that I was lucky.
Now, I understand this was apparently originally a board game, and as such die were involved, but honestly I don't care. The fact is, I just don't enjoy it. Games of chance are fine I suppose when I'm in the mood for just random chance to take part, but I'm always fully aware that if I win, it's not because of anything I did. When playing an RPG, I don't want that sort of feeling. I want the satisfaction of knowing I and I alone was responsible for the victory, or my defeat should that be the case, so I know that I can actually do something different to win, or that my strategies were in fact good. A little probability adds some spice indeed, but probability shouldn't be set in stone, and it shouldn't have as major an effect on the battle. For example, having a weapon that is super strong but has an inherent 40% hit rate I can deal with. It's that the hit rate is ALSO calculated into some huge unchangeble variable that will have a MAJOR effect on the battle's outcome no matter how I play it that's the problem. I don't even mind when there are a FEW moves that are totally chance related. Having some move like "roulette" that instantly kills a totally random character, including the one who cast the spell, is fine.
I guess it's hard to explain, but basically it's like I said above. A LITTLE probability can add some "spice" to the game, but when a game completely depends on probability, it just gets annoying. I mean, the number of times I just reset for the first part of KOTOR after dying in a battle, even though I had a very nice level and some good equipment and abilities and such, and then I suddenly just TOTALLY kill the enemy without them standing a chance, was just too much. It ALSO frustrated me in conversations where I was "perseuading" people. Again, later on the stats got so high that the 20 variable didn't really matter as MOST of the time I would succeed, but when it's about 50/50, it's just annoying. I like to know that it's set in stone so that I know if it's totally impossible or completely doable, not know that I have a chance so I end up resetting over and over again until it works.
I suppose it's just different tastes in the end. I like chance to play just a small part with skill and stats being the primary determining things for victory, and some like their RPGs to be board games where they depend more on rolling the die to determine the victor.
Anyway, the math aside, it's still all based on probability. It's not having to solve equtations that's a problem. KOTOR for example did all the equations for you and you never had to do any of the math yourself (I love science, but I really do not enjoy math, well not the actual DOING of the math, though I enjoy complicated math principles and rules). It would basically just tell you, as you put it above, how much damage the weapon could potentially do. Rolling 2 four sided really IS better odds than a single 8 sided. I'd always pick that anyway, and it generally was evenly distributed between 2 and 8, never really gathering up on either side of it.
Sorry ABF, but playing with probabilities is utterly boring to me and in the end when chance is the supreme factor, I don't decide things. Yes, as you said, and I pointed out above, when you get significantly stronger, you WILL win more often because the 20 variable just isn't as significant a change, but to be forced to play a long way into a game just to defeat one of the key parts of the system just isn't enjoyable to me. Chance is not fun for me at all, and I've always despised elements that are random rather than controlled by me. When I win early on, I never feel like I earned it, just that I was lucky.
Now, I understand this was apparently originally a board game, and as such die were involved, but honestly I don't care. The fact is, I just don't enjoy it. Games of chance are fine I suppose when I'm in the mood for just random chance to take part, but I'm always fully aware that if I win, it's not because of anything I did. When playing an RPG, I don't want that sort of feeling. I want the satisfaction of knowing I and I alone was responsible for the victory, or my defeat should that be the case, so I know that I can actually do something different to win, or that my strategies were in fact good. A little probability adds some spice indeed, but probability shouldn't be set in stone, and it shouldn't have as major an effect on the battle. For example, having a weapon that is super strong but has an inherent 40% hit rate I can deal with. It's that the hit rate is ALSO calculated into some huge unchangeble variable that will have a MAJOR effect on the battle's outcome no matter how I play it that's the problem. I don't even mind when there are a FEW moves that are totally chance related. Having some move like "roulette" that instantly kills a totally random character, including the one who cast the spell, is fine.
I guess it's hard to explain, but basically it's like I said above. A LITTLE probability can add some "spice" to the game, but when a game completely depends on probability, it just gets annoying. I mean, the number of times I just reset for the first part of KOTOR after dying in a battle, even though I had a very nice level and some good equipment and abilities and such, and then I suddenly just TOTALLY kill the enemy without them standing a chance, was just too much. It ALSO frustrated me in conversations where I was "perseuading" people. Again, later on the stats got so high that the 20 variable didn't really matter as MOST of the time I would succeed, but when it's about 50/50, it's just annoying. I like to know that it's set in stone so that I know if it's totally impossible or completely doable, not know that I have a chance so I end up resetting over and over again until it works.
I suppose it's just different tastes in the end. I like chance to play just a small part with skill and stats being the primary determining things for victory, and some like their RPGs to be board games where they depend more on rolling the die to determine the victor.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)