News From the Goron Front

[A Black Falcon]

And yes, I know of the examples of the Crusaders and the Conquistadors, and all the other people who have done the same. My point is that this is Muhammad. the prophet. Not the people who claimed to be followers who just twisted the truth to their own desires. It is completely contrary to Jesus' examples, even when faced with torture and death. When the soldiers came to arrest Jesus, Peter attacked them. But Jesus told him to stop, and then healed the man who had come to arrest him. (Mathew 26:50-54)

I read a book about the Crusades last year... from a more Muslim point of view. I'd say that not only were the Christians bad, they were substantially worse than the Muslims. Saladin frequently was merciful and let people live while the Crusaders had a long bloody history of brutally slaughtering captives and wiping out cities...

Talk all you want about the few exceptions who did try to act like Jesus and turn the other cheek, but there are a thousand (or a million) Christians who did the opposite for every one of them. Oh sure they weren't acting by truly Christian principles, but did that matter to THEM? Massacring heathens is what God wants!

Above all things presented in the bible, it teaches us to hate Rome.

Ah, but Rome was converted in the end... there are good arguements that that conversion was one of the many factors that helped speed its decline, but still, it was
converted.

OB1, from what I have read Baha'i teaches Jesus is one of many messengers from God and that the meaning of life is to know God. "The purpose of God in creating man hath been, and will ever be, to enable him to know his Creator and to attain His Presence." That is awesome! So few people understand that, even people who believe in God. The thing is, Jesus said that he is the only way to God and himself God, not just a prophet. That is not the kind of statement you hear people make every day, and it doesn't fit with the idea that he is one of many prophets. I think you have to make a decision, that either everything he said is true or everything he said is bogus. Because either he was God or he was insane. Have you read the Gospel? I only ask because most Christians don't even read the Bible, and think quotes like "God helps those who help themselves" are scripture. Maybe you have thought about this and spent time studying, but if not I encourage you to do so. Read what Jesus said and look at how he lived and decide for yourself. At least then you will know you have all the facts before deciding. Just think about it, kay?

Sorry for it, but I have to say it... someone who acted like Jesus these days would go straight to an asylum... from my view he was a somewhat crazy man who had some views which are nearly impossible to follow but would be good if people did (love your enemy, turn the other cheek, etc...). And of course from the position of the authorities he was a dangerous rabble-rouser (which he certainly was) who threated the peace and so he had to be gotten rid of...

Oh yeah, and, um, isn't 'is Jesus the son of God, part of God, etc' a major arguement in Christianity which there is no common agreement on? :)

Lazy, I didn't mean to say that Jews hunted Christians on a large scale. They were the ones who persecuted anyone who followed Jesus in the first century, because they believed that the Messiah was supposed to set them free from being subject to Rome and that he would lead them to victory over the entire world. They didn't understand that Jesus did come to set them free, but not from a political rule. Instead he set them free from sin so they could have a life worth living. They also considered him a threat since he rebuked the religious leaders for being hypocrites, but by 70 AD Roman soldiers had conquered and destroyed Jerusalem completely, essentially ending the Jewish nation until this century.

Self-proclaimed prophets wandering among the common people saying things that could incite them to do things the leaders would not like... of course they'd try to supress it, especially under a foreign military dictatorship that at times got violent... oh sure Jesus's message wasn't about setting people free from political rule, but would that REALLY have mattered if he'd riled them up enough? Didn't think so. Sure their methods were brutal, but from the perspective of the people in charge he was most certainly dangerous, political asperations or no...

I'm confused that say Rome was in power for 15 thousand years. Did you mean 15 hundred years? The historical records are archeological evidence say that Rome was founded around 750 BC and collapsed around 476 AD, which is a little more than 1200 years.

But it only became a power of note in the 300s or so (200s?) BC, with the wars against Carthage... before that it was just a city-state, really.

Unless of course you add the Byzantine Empire, which lasted another thousand years... but in the East, not in Rome. :)

Also, again, what you've heard of only Christians being persecuted in many Muslim countries isn't true. It is illegal in China to teach just about any religion, and you cannot have religioug gatherings of more than a handful of people. I have a lot of Baha'i friends living in China so I'm well aware of this face. In Iran, Baha'is have been persecuted since the beginning of the Faith, and they still are today.

Yeah, I thought Baha'i was from Iran... and China of course persecutes everyone equally. :)

There is no evidence to suggest that the Bible has been changed over time. There is more collaborating evidence for the Bible than any other book or manuscript. Don't you think that if there really was evidence that the Bible was changed it would be very well known? Scientists and scholars are always trying to destroy the Bible, but they have not found anything to back their beliefs. In fact, some of the people who first intended to disprove the Bible have instead found the evidence to be so overwhelmingly in favor of the Bible that they have become Christians.

The Christian Bible has been pretty much set since that meeting sometime in the early years (200s?) when the Christian leadership decided which books to keep and which not to... except for things like translation errors of course, you're right that it's been pretty much the same since then. But you still have to wonder why they got rid of the books they did... to shape the book for the message they wanted to get out best, I imagine. But it was a decision by men for what exactly is in our Bible. They didn't just put in all of the Gospels (like the Gospel of Thomas, I think... wasn't that left out at that point?)!

One last thing about this: One thing I was often taught in college math classes was to perform a sanity check on your answer. Basically, it just means to see if the answer makes sense at all. So I propose this: If the Bible was change, why would the hero die? Why would he reject all the things we enjoy in life. If someone was trying to corrupt it, why would they instead make something that is completely against all human reasoning? How can one man dying save all of mankind? Why would they change it to say that you should love your enemy instead of getting the justice you deserve? Why would they tell you it was impossible to do it on your own, and doing good isn't enough? Is there any other religion that teaches that? Why would they say that Jesus is the only way instead of the idea that he is one of many prophets that many other religions say? Wouldn't they clean up the problems that the other famous Biblical leaders had? Like David's adultery? Like the continual rebellion and disobedience of the Jews away from God. If you are trying to make God look better, wouldn't you make his chosen people win all the battles in the end and live happily ever after? The truth the Bible teaches is completely opposite of human nature and goes against everything people want to believe, which is why it is so vehemently opposed.

Because without Jesus dying Christianity probably wouldn't exist. And if it did in nothing like its current form. They needed a martyr! Having it be the founder of the sect makes it even better... I'm sure that like all books that were written after events they are not exactly accurate (:D), but again like most books that talk of events that supposedly happened there's truth in them in almost all cases... and the closer to the event, usually the more truth is in the story.

Though choosing a torture implement/execution device as your main symbol does seem a bit morbid. :D