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+--- Thread: News From the Goron Front (/showthread.php?tid=1818)
News From the Goron Front - Darunia - 13th April 2004
GORON CITY, HYRULE--In recent news from the Goron war front, the mighty Goron war machine has been almost entirely handicapped in its grand, glorious campaigns due to a crippling war against a computer virus. The Goron Imperial Army has been rendered virtually immobile for several weeks now, the Goron ambassador to Tendo City reports. "His Imperial Majesty, Emperor Darunia S. Goron XIV, wishes his loyal comrades at Tendo City to know that the war carries on, albeit not well," the ambassador told this correspondent at an interview in his Tendo City embassy. Putting down a warm plate of molten rocks, he continued, "but his majesty is growing concerned. The virus assumes the identity of a "kernel32.dll" file, and even now it grows in power. The Goron Army is hapless against a foe which will not fight in a conventional manner. This virus," the ambassador said even as he began to choke on tears, "it does not fight conventionally---it cannot be reasoned with. First, it just prevented us from using the Start Up menu in Windows... then it gave us all these bogus error messages. Then, the internet---we can get online, but neither AIM nor Internet Explorer function. Some programs, like Winamp, work normally; others, like Paint and JPeg-viewing programs freeze when used. It...it's just not human." The ambassador broke down at this point and the interview was terminated. On the war front, the Goron casualties continued to mount on Tuesday; numbering well into the tens of thousands. The Goron II Imperial Army was swiftly defeated by the Virus forces yesterday, and the war effort grows dim. If things continue as such, the hard drive will either need to be formatted, or worse, a new computer will need to be purchased. His Imperial Majesty sends his heavy-hearted greetings to the Tendo City establishment, and wishes them all well.
-------BARRY
News From the Goron Front - OB1 - 13th April 2004
...
News From the Goron Front - alien space marine - 13th April 2004
Thats his way of saying that he got a computer virus and thats why he haisnt been around the last few weeks.
To bad he missed my Goron hate propagonda.
News From the Goron Front - Great Rumbler - 13th April 2004
I hate computer viruses.
News From the Goron Front - Geno - 13th April 2004
Yes, Darunia likes to make announcements in the form of news reports. That way, he can boost his ego in the third person.
News From the Goron Front - Dark Jaguar - 13th April 2004
So ASM, you are saying you are against hating gorons?
Isn't that cute? Widdle Dawunia's pooter caught a cold :D.
News From the Goron Front - Great Rumbler - 13th April 2004
I can kind of sympathize with Darunia on this, my computer got a virus and I went through AT LEAST 11 kinds of hell getting it fixed.
News From the Goron Front - UltraMarioMan - 13th April 2004
Excelent time to send in my Atomic Chimp armys.. *Guy comes out and whispers something to UMM* What do you mean its Chimp mating season and they're all doing it??!!
News From the Goron Front - alien space marine - 13th April 2004
Darunia gave his computer a STD
News From the Goron Front - Great Rumbler - 13th April 2004
Hahahaha...hahaha...haha...ha...seriously?!
News From the Goron Front - lazyfatbum - 13th April 2004
"He can boost his ego in the third person."
hahahaha, like a 'Family newsletter' :D
News From the Goron Front - Dark Jaguar - 13th April 2004
A family newsletter? What kind of arse would come up with something like that?
News From the Goron Front - Geno - 14th April 2004
My computer might have a virus, it's been acting screwy lately. I haven't had to reformat it in over a year, but it may have to be reformatted again soon.
News From the Goron Front - alien space marine - 14th April 2004
You need norton anti virus.
I had a trojan horse once , It kept deleting my D: drive and I had to keep reinstalling it so I could install norton anti virus.
News From the Goron Front - Darunia - 14th April 2004
*Shakes head unapprovingly*
I try to let you folk know what I'm going through in a cute, creative manner---and I'm an egotistical idiot, to be mocked for my troubles. I'd expected best wishes and sympathy, and I get STD jokes and the likes. None of you know that beneath the Goron TC-façade I wear here, I have the lowest fucking self esteem of anyone I know. Far be it from me to enjoy a funny mock identity at a small-time videogames forum. In some aspects, perhaps having gotten this virus was for the better---it's given me a vacation from you. You people really do suck sometimes.
News From the Goron Front - Darunia - 14th April 2004
Really disappointing.
News From the Goron Front - Great Rumbler - 14th April 2004
Darunia, people aren't laughing AT you, they're laughing WITH you! Yeah...that's it.
News From the Goron Front - Weltall - 14th April 2004
It's the mock identity everyone's making fun of. Nobody knows who the hell you really are.
News From the Goron Front - lazyfatbum - 14th April 2004
(small-framed boy living with parents who plays Stratego in his underwear by himself)
News From the Goron Front - UltraMarioMan - 14th April 2004
Weltall...your sig scares me...
News From the Goron Front - geoboy - 14th April 2004
I should get one of those. But then people would be able to see all the gay music I listen to.
At least Darunia's self-esteem isn't so low that he resorts to ripping on himself like I do. :D
News From the Goron Front - alien space marine - 14th April 2004
Darunia we were only joking, Look white fleck got teased on his birthday so your not alone.
My teasing has more to do with the fact you offended my most basic spiritual beliefs.
News From the Goron Front - Undertow - 14th April 2004
Weltall Wrote:It's the mock identity everyone's making fun of. Nobody knows who the hell you really are.
I'm the only one on the forums that knows his true identity.
Quote:Darunia gave his computer a STD
:clap:
News From the Goron Front - Laser Link - 14th April 2004
ASM, how do think continually abusing someone because they disagree with you will ever win them over to your point of view? It's not a good strategy for any kind of disagreement, let alone something like God. Why would somebody want to be like you when you act like that? Joking is fine, just don't turn it into a personal vendetta.
News From the Goron Front - EdenMaster - 14th April 2004
Shiggy caught a virus too. It's called DANCE FEVER!
:shiggy2:
*ahem*
My condolences for your computer woes. I myself had some trouble a while ago, the power supply literally fried itself...quite noisily I might add. I know the plight of viruses, the fear of not knowing if your hard drive contents will be there the next time you sit down at it. Good luck.
As for the mockery you recieve here, I don't think any of us wish you any ill will. We're simply having some fun with you, and as Weltall pointed out, we know nothing about you. You've told us for years that you are Darunia, King of Gorons, and that is the only way we know you. I don't think you can really get on us for messing with you when we're really just joking with your internet persona.
News From the Goron Front - Darunia - 14th April 2004
*Caresses chin, interestingly*
I...swear that....I closed this thread...
News From the Goron Front - EdenMaster - 14th April 2004
News From the Goron Front - lazyfatbum - 14th April 2004
horse shit
News From the Goron Front - alien space marine - 15th April 2004
Laser Link Wrote:ASM, how do think continually abusing someone because they disagree with you will ever win them over to your point of view? It's not a good strategy for any kind of disagreement, let alone something like God. Why would somebody want to be like you when you act like that? Joking is fine, just don't turn it into a personal vendetta.
Darunia has a vendetta agiast all of us who are not athiest.
I was joking mostly about everything in my sig.
News From the Goron Front - Laser Link - 15th April 2004
Quote:Darunia has a vendetta agiast all of us who are not athiest.And Islam teaches that by killing a non-believer you will be assured a place in heaven. Does that mean that Christians should start bombing every mosque we see? I remember reading that Jesus said something like "Love those who hate you", and I don't thinK Darunia really hates Christians. He's got his opinion and he is sick of people who disagree trying to shove their beliefs on him and attacking him the whole time. It seems to be the most common (and most wrong) technique people use, and I have no idea where this started. It's completely against what Christ did, but it's what Christians are known for.
I'm not trying to beat you down over this, because we all mess up and do stupid, mean things. But I am trying to encourage you to think about what you are doing and how you are living and see if it agrees with what you say you believe. Your goal should be to strive to know God more and to live a life that pleases him. Christianity is not about fire insurance for after we die. It's about living life to the fullest NOW. Take time to read the Bible and ask God for help- he will. We can't be perfect, but that doesn't mean we have an excuse for not trying. Think about it, kay?
News From the Goron Front - lazyfatbum - 15th April 2004
Christians force beliefs just like anyone else who forces any other opinion. When you have an opinion on something that you want people to agree with you on, you get really ambitious about it and you start to preach it like it's more than opinion. The result is basically someone forcing their ideas on someone else in order to feel justified for having the opinion in the first place.
A true believer and someone who is confident in their faith (in religion or otherwise) will not force their ideas on someone else. In contrast, it's actually difficult to convert to Judaism since most temples will try to persuade people not to convert. This is done soley for the reason of making sure that the people who come to temple have faith in their beliefs, not searching for faith, as is the case for most christian-base religions.
All people should follow the example of Jesus, not for his faith but his teachings, but that is a harsh reality not many can surrender to. Love my enemy more than my friend? Shit. I cant imagine living like that. Neither can the rest of the world.
News From the Goron Front - alien space marine - 15th April 2004
I can understand that some people have given Darunia bad experiences and thats why he hates christians, I wish he would see not all of us are like that.
Your right it is human nature to push your opinions on other people thats why people fight over Democrat and republican or Hockey vs Football.
The reason I had taken it out at Darunia is because pushed his opinions on me in the debate forum.
But maybe I will stop making fun of him.
News From the Goron Front - lazyfatbum - 15th April 2004
*angel gets wings*
News From the Goron Front - OB1 - 15th April 2004
Laser Link Wrote:And Islam teaches that by killing a non-believer you will be assured a place in heaven. Does that mean that Christians should start bombing every mosque we see? I remember reading that Jesus said something like "Love those who hate you", and I don't thinK Darunia really hates Christians. He's got his opinion and he is sick of people who disagree trying to shove their beliefs on him and attacking him the whole time. It seems to be the most common (and most wrong) technique people use, and I have no idea where this started. It's completely against what Christ did, but it's what Christians are known for.
I'm not trying to beat you down over this, because we all mess up and do stupid, mean things. But I am trying to encourage you to think about what you are doing and how you are living and see if it agrees with what you say you believe. Your goal should be to strive to know God more and to live a life that pleases him. Christianity is not about fire insurance for after we die. It's about living life to the fullest NOW. Take time to read the Bible and ask God for help- he will. We can't be perfect, but that doesn't mean we have an excuse for not trying. Think about it, kay?
There is nothing in the Quran which states that killing a non-believer will get you a place in heaven. That is what Islamic extremists believe in, and they twist the writings around to suit their twisted cause. Much like the Christians during the Crusade, I might add.
News From the Goron Front - A Black Falcon - 15th April 2004
True, but it is true that the main Muslim prophet is Mohammad -- a violent, warmongering imperialist. Quite different from Jesus. Of course when you think how Christians have ACTED they're about the same, though...
News From the Goron Front - OB1 - 15th April 2004
Muhammad did kill men, but it was always in self defence. During his thirteen years in Mecca, he and his followers edured incredibly violent persecutions, and many of his followers were killed. Muhammad fled from place to place, and his persecuters always followed him. The people who persecuted him were incredible savage. They would go from village to village, slaughtering people and taking their women and children captive. It was only after thirteen years of persectution, from fleeing from these people that Muhammad took up arms and defended himself and his people. The people who were after him would kill all of the men and take the women and children as slaves, and it wouldn't have ended.
News From the Goron Front - lazyfatbum - 15th April 2004
I also read something that Islam countries teach that by killing someone who is against Muhammad, you get in to heaven. The people they kill are called 'Infidels'.
But man, having the 70 virgins and all the steaks I can eat... after I die, sounded really awesome.
News From the Goron Front - Laser Link - 16th April 2004
OB1, I think you may be wrong about this. I have heard all the PC people saying that Islam is just a wonderful thing and the suicide bombers are just radicals who twisted things to their own ways. And all of that has come after 9-11, when people were so afraid of backlash against Arabs and Muslims here. However, I have heard from other people who have lived in Muslim countries or have Muslim friends who have said the opposite. I did a quick search on google and found site of both opinions, both claiming the other guys took everything out of context, and I could see the point both were making. One quote that jumped out at me that I never saw refuted was this:
"The believers who stay at home??apart from those that suffer a grave impediment??are not the equals of those who fight for the cause of God with their goods and their persons. God has given those that fight with their goods and their persons a higher rank than those who stay at home ..."
That says to me that you are encourage to kill nonbelievers if you want better rewards after you die. Now maybe it too is taken out of context and it is in truth analogous to draft dodging, I don't know.
You say that he only killed out of self defense, but I haven't read anything like that. What I've read, and never found refuted, is that he tortured people who wouldn't convert to Islam.
Quote:"A group of eight men from the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, ?O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with some milk.? Allah's Apostle said, ?I recommend that you should join the herd of camels.? So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died." (Hadith, Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 261: Narrated by Anas bin Malik.)And yes, I know of the examples of the Crusaders and the Conquistadors, and all the other people who have done the same. My point is that this is Muhammad. the prophet. Not the people who claimed to be followers who just twisted the truth to their own desires. It is completely contrary to Jesus' examples, even when faced with torture and death. When the soldiers came to arrest Jesus, Peter attacked them. But Jesus told him to stop, and then healed the man who had come to arrest him. (Mathew 26:50-54)
The oldest still-available biography of Muhammad is called the "Sirat Rasul Allah" ("Life of the Prophet of Allah"). This book was written by Ibn Ishaq a century before any of the major works of the Hadith. "Sirat Rasulallah" is considered the most authentic biography of Muhammad. On page 515, we read of an event that took place about three years before Muhammad's death. This specific narrative tells of Muhammad?s conquest of Khaibar, a large Jewish settlement with some of the best date palms in the region. The Jews of Khaibar were prosperous merchants, craftsmen, and farmers. Kinana al-Rabi, who was said to have had the custody of a certain hidden treasure, was brought to Muhammad who asked him about it. Kinana denied that he knew where it was. A Jew came to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going round a certain ruin every morning early. When the apostle said to Kinana, "Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?" he said "Yes." Muhammad gave orders that the ruin be excavated and some of the treasure was found. When he asked Kinana about the rest of the treasure he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr Al-Awwam, "Torture him until you extract what he has." So he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then Muhammad delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head. Were Muhammad?s actions in keeping with a religion that is for peace? And this is only one such example among many. <a href="http://www.answering-islam.org/TWOR/peacepromoting.html">link</a>
And to top it off, those who really did follow him lived the same. Later when the Jews were hunting and killing the first of what we now call Christians, they didn't fight back. Stephen was stoned, and he prayed for the people who killed him (Acts 7). THere are countless examples int eh New Testament of people who believed in Jesus being tortured and killed for this belief, and not once did they retaliate. History is full of similar examples, like the Roman emporors who would capture every Christian they could find, and not just kill them, but throw them into collisiums to be destroyed by lions, or burned at the stake, or whatever else they could discover. That is true history, and whether you want to believe the Bible or not, you have to admit that is the truth.
And if you still don't believe me, what about the places today like China, Tibet, Nepal, or ANY Muslim country where it is illegal to be a Christian? If you are found you are thrown in jail or killed. Read <a href="http://www.persecution.org/">this</a> or <a href="http://www.persecutedchurch.org/index.cfm">this</a> for more. Tell me again that Islam promotes peace and goodwill to all. That seems a little different from the US, which was based on Christian beliefs and the desire for everyone to have freedom of religion. Muslims are not hunted and killed here. Budhists are not. Followers of the Baha'i Faith are not. Atheists are not. You can believe what you want, and are free to disagree and have talks likes this. In many parts of the world, I would be killed for saying what I am now. Possesion of a Bible means prison. But do you ever hear about Christians who rebel and kill police or soldiers because they were being persecuted. If Muhammad really believed what he claimed, that Martyrs for Allah will receive paradise, then why did he fight. The sites that do say Islam promotes peace are quick to point out that they believe that matyrs will be greatly rewarded- but you can't be a martyr if you attack others. But here Muhammad is fighting back to defend himself. To me that doesn't add up.
On the other hand, I know people who live in China and Nepal, in Muslim countries, who are trying to tell these people about Jesus. Not because they feel have to for salvation. Not because they want to conquer or control these people. But it's because they love them. They are willing to give up EVERYTHING - computers, video games, tv, movies, the entire American lifestyle and all the great things we enjoy - to tell these people the good news that they can be free. And even though it is illegal and the price they pay if caught is high, Christianity is growing exponentially in these places. Christianity is not a Western idea. The largest church for many years was in South Korea at around 70,000, but now Christian churches in Africa (Etheopia, I think, but I can't remember of the top of my head) are hundreds of thousands of people in size. They have services all day every day. And despite the best efforts of leaders all around the world, Christianity is growing and growing. Why? These people were not rasied with these beliefs. It is not part of their culture. So why suddenly turn away from how you were raised and all that you ever believed, risking death in the process?
I've said this many times, but it is so often misunderstood that I need to say it again. Christianity is not about going to heaven instead of hell. That's a fantastic thing, but that puts the whole emphasis on dying. In truth Jesus says "I have come so that you may have life, and have it to the full." It's about living life now. It's about a reason to get up in the morning, it's about something that will FINALLY satisfy the deepest hole in your life that you've tried to fill with everything else but you still feel empty. I didn't understand this until a few years ago, and my life has changed completely. Call me insane or delusional or whatever else. I know that I used to be miserable even though I've been a Christian all my life. I know that I hated life, I felt worthless and stupid, and I felt there was no hope for anything better. I did all the good things that religion is all about - like not swearing or lying or getting into trouble. Basically being a boring loser with no life and no fun. But it didn't do anything for me and I was still miserable. And then I finally gave in to God and let him be the friend and savior I needed, not the Big, Angry Diety in the Sky I thought he was. And everything changed. For me it wasn't an overnight thing, but consistently everyday I grow closer to God. I love talking to God because it's not a duty anymore. I love reading the Bible because it encourages me to strive to better myself to honor God and serve others. No, I'm not perfect yet, but the great thing about God is that there is always grace. Grace to forgive and grace to change.
Anyway, I was never intending to go here when I said that. It was an example off the top of my head. I was only trying to say that revenge is not the answer. "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." Maybe you've seen that on a bumper sticker- I know I have many times. And judging by the other stickers that tend to accompany that one, it's someone who thinks they are making a point to Christians, not even realizing that it is the core of what Jesus was about. I was only trying to encourage ASM to think about it for a second, because it is so easy to react out of anger.
It is human nature to react and get offended when others hurt or insult you. That is why you always hear about Christians protesting something or whining about something. But the thing is, Jesus has the power to set you free from human nature. Paul talks about it a lot in Romans 8. "Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires." and a few verses later: "You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you." Basically, it's saying that everyone lives by human nature, which wants to please itself. Me first, looking out for number one, I do whatever seems right to me... Maybe you will disagree, but I think that is the basis of everything that is wrong with the world. Why does somebody steal? Because they care more about themselves than the one who they are robbing. Why do people murder? Because they want to satisfy their own desires regardless of the consequences it has to anyone else. It's even evidenced in little things like not wanting to do your chores.
Maybe you don't even think it's a big deal cause you haven't done anything too bad. But haven't you ever gotten so angry about something that youlost control? Maybe for a second, or a minute, or maybe you were angry with the world for a week. And every time you seem to get more angry or you get frustrated about things that never bothered you before. You guys know it's true! That's because you don't really have complete control over your actions and thoughts. I hated being a slave to human nature, and now that God controls my life, I don't have to be. Now sometimes I mess up and turn away from God, but then I realize what a mess I've made and he's always there to forgive, even though I don't deserve it.
OB1, from what I have read Baha'i teaches Jesus is one of many messengers from God and that the meaning of life is to know God. "The purpose of God in creating man hath been, and will ever be, to enable him to know his Creator and to attain His Presence." That is awesome! So few people understand that, even people who believe in God. The thing is, Jesus said that he is the only way to God and himself God, not just a prophet. That is not the kind of statement you hear people make every day, and it doesn't fit with the idea that he is one of many prophets. I think you have to make a decision, that either everything he said is true or everything he said is bogus. Because either he was God or he was insane. Have you read the Gospel? I only ask because most Christians don't even read the Bible, and think quotes like "God helps those who help themselves" are scripture. Maybe you have thought about this and spent time studying, but if not I encourage you to do so. Read what Jesus said and look at how he lived and decide for yourself. At least then you will know you have all the facts before deciding. Just think about it, kay?
You guys know I don't bring this up often. I wasn't even trying to talk about it when this all started. I just wanted to give ASM something to think about, because I used to attack everyone who didn't believe the same as me and now I feel very bad about itm because I was a bad example of what Jesus is all about. So that's the only reason I said anything. And I'm only writing this huge core dump because I couldn't stop once I started. :) I'm not going to force this on anybody else. It's just that there are so many misconceptions about Christianity (created mostly by people who claimed to follow Jesus, but only as a little God-in-a-box to justify their own sin and grant their wishes) and I don't want my friends to never learn the truth- so they can make their own educated decisions for their own life.
It's like the Matrix, guys. I've been unplugged, and I want you to be too. Nobody in the Matrix thinks there is anything wrong- they don't know any better. I can't prove it to you. You have to take the red pill and find out for yourself. I don't claim an easy life or that everything will be perfect from now on. In fact, it's actually the opposite, because now you are a threat. But now you will have the power to overcome, and it's so worth it.
News From the Goron Front - alien space marine - 16th April 2004
Laser link I am impressed by your knowledge.
News From the Goron Front - lazyfatbum - 16th April 2004
Dude, that was awesome. Thank you.
One thing though, Jews didn't kill Christians on some massive scale or anything. Rome did though. Many many years after Jesus a reform happened among Jews and they separated in to two sects one of which evolved in to Christianity. Jews were afraid of this of course, just as any religion would be afraid of having itself branched off in to another direction and there were many debates and fights but never an attempt at genocide. Some Christians even believe that Christianity is the true Judaism, that we follow the King of the Jews.
Above all things presented in the bible, it teaches us to hate Rome. All white people have blood ties to Rome and for 15 thousand years it was the Anglo Saxon Mecca of the world and was very powerful and corrupt, more powerful than any country that has ever existed since. The people who tried to separate themselves from this entity of what they considered to be evil were the Jews.
They were Romans who left Rome in the hope of creating a society with more freedom and good will, that society was created out in the deserts away from Rome's eyes. (Keep in mind that the Jews wrote both the old and new testament); When they saw people following a living man (Jesus), who promised that he was the son of God, many of the officials were frightened and were reminded of their Roman roots, a place where people would follow a living man, a self-proclaimed God and much of that idea led to Rome's corruption. But many Jews wrote that Jesus was a savior, saving the Jews from their own corruption because they had turned the temples in to banks and no longer loved God.
Many many many many many years later we would re-tell that story in the re-written New Testament. That Jesus is our savior and that he will bring us closer to God with tons of embellishments and what not but that doesn't matter, the embellishments are only there to help people realize what an important figure he is to everyone's life since if he would not of existed, everything as we know it would be very different. The high priests would have collapsed Judaism under a veil of seemingly innocent corruption, Rome would have become even stronger as the white Mecca and would probably be a super power today that wouldn't have let any other countries form without its approval (and ownership) and we would all be speaking a form of Latin... well, we already do that, but you get my point.
News From the Goron Front - OB1 - 16th April 2004
LL, I respect your opinions and don't wish to force my own beliefs on yours, but I encourage you to do more independant research on your own regarding these topics.
If a person wants to find something bad about something that he or she does not agree with, then they will find it. You will find books of every kinds from over the centuries speaking ill of Muhhamad, Jesus, Moses, you name it. I'm sure you've encountered a few people who've used the passages in the Old Testament (where directions are given of how to sell your daughter to slavery, etc.) against you.
Also, again, what you've heard of only Christians being persecuted in many Muslim countries isn't true. It is illegal in China to teach just about any religion, and you cannot have religioug gatherings of more than a handful of people. I have a lot of Baha'i friends living in China so I'm well aware of this face. In Iran, Baha'is have been persecuted since the beginning of the Faith, and they still are today.
I also want to set something straight. Bahai's do believe that Jesus is the Son of God, although the interpretations of what that means exactly differ. I have studied the Bible, and am confident in my own beliefs. I'm very happy that you too, are confident in your own beliefs and wish to spread that message to those in need. I respect your beliefs and your opinions, and the only thing I ask is that you do the same. :) If you'd like to continue this discussion, a more intimate manner might be better. You can reach me at prancetron2000@yahoo.com
News From the Goron Front - alien space marine - 16th April 2004
Quote:where directions are given of how to sell your daughter to slavery
I never heard of this , I knew that Abraham had slaves , But back then you couldnt just hire employees to work your farm so they had no choice but to buy slaves to help out in the feilds.But the scriptures say that he had taken care of them compassionately and conciderd them part of his family.Abraham was peaceful man who helped anyone in need.
News From the Goron Front - OB1 - 16th April 2004
If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. (Exodus 21:1)
If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. (Exodus 21:7)
And before you go "GASP!", back then these were actually pretty radical laws and they did make the situation of slavery better. A demand for the complete eradication of slavery would have been seen as pure insanity and nothing would have come from it.
News From the Goron Front - Darunia - 16th April 2004
I didn't know that God condoned slavery.
ASM---can't you even spell in French? What's a Nepolian?
News From the Goron Front - Undertow - 16th April 2004
Darunia Wrote:ASM---can't you even spell in French?
He should learn to spell in English first.
News From the Goron Front - Laser Link - 16th April 2004
Obi, I did not mean to say that only Christians are persecuted, but in truth I had not heard of others who have been either. It certainly makes sense that anyone with spiritual beliefs would be in China, but I had not heard about that before now.
I know that you can always find something to back up what you what to believe, and that is why I tried to make it clear that I don't know all the facts, and have found people and websites debating back and forth and each saying the other is wrong. But I have heard from people who know a lot more than I and who I trust to give me the truth. I am going to Morocoo this summer and we've had some discussions about this, but I will keep searching on my own and looking for the truth about this. Do you have any suggestions on where to start?
Lazy, I didn't mean to say that Jews hunted Christians on a large scale. They were the ones who persecuted anyone who followed Jesus in the first century, because they believed that the Messiah was supposed to set them free from being subject to Rome and that he would lead them to victory over the entire world. They didn't understand that Jesus did come to set them free, but not from a political rule. Instead he set them free from sin so they could have a life worth living. They also considered him a threat since he rebuked the religious leaders for being hypocrites, but by 70 AD Roman soldiers had conquered and destroyed Jerusalem completely, essentially ending the Jewish nation until this century.
Also, it is not true that the Bible teaches to hate Rome. After Jesus was killed, many of the Jews who believed in him thought that only Jews could come to God, and they refused to talk to the Gentiles, which is a fancy way of saying anyone who isn't a Jew. But through a series of events God showed them that his message was for everyone. And many of these early apostles spent their entire lives reaching the Greeks and the Romans and everyone they could possibly get to. The most well known of these was Paul, and he travled all over the Mediteranean all the way to Spain. The book of Romans is one of the most fundamental and important books in the Bible in that it goes through the entire process of why humanity needed Jesus, how we can be saved, and how to live after we decide to give our lives to God. And this letter was written by Paul to early Christians in Rome, so he certainly wasn't hating them. The Jews as a whole, on the other hand, never did accept Jesus as who he said he was. He was not a Savior to them, but a blasphemer and liar. And to this day Jews are waiting for the promised Savior to come.
I'm confused that say Rome was in power for 15 thousand years. Did you mean 15 hundred years? The historical records are archeological evidence say that Rome was founded around 750 BC and collapsed around 476 AD, which is a little more than 1200 years.
I also disagree with you when you say that the New Testament was re-written to change the story. I know you have mentioned this before, and I have also heard other people suggest this same idea. As you probably know, I believe that the Bible is the word of God and is completely true and unchanged, so that's why I am quick to jump at this one and disagree. :)
However, it is not just on faith that I accept the Bible to be completely true. There have been times where I have wondered how to know if it is really true. It has been 2-6 thousand years since these were written, depending on what part of the Bible you talk about, and it could have been changed. So much of what I believe, well all of it in fact, is based on what the Bible says. So why do I believe it is true aside from just faith?
Well first of, it does depend on what you consider change. Obviously the language has been changed, because I can't read Hebrew, Greek, or Aramaic. And it is reasonable to assume that as someone was copying the Bible by hand, there could have been mistakes, or a misunderstanding of the actual translation, or maybe they just had bad handwriting. Over time these mistakes would compound and the original message could be changed.
However, as the Bible is the most popular book ever, there has been a lot of research to find if it is true. We have many copies of the original text, and they match up extremely well. There are some discrepancies, but very minor, as in a word changed slightly to a different meaning. Also, the Jews had a practice of burning or burying a manuscript that had become very old, so there were only a few surviving manuscripts by the 10th century.
Then just over 50 years ago they discovered the Dead Sea Scrolls, an ancient manuscript that contained sections of every book of the Old Testament except Esther. Scientists believe the Dead Sea Scrools are the oldest remaing copies of the scriptures, as much as 1000 years older than the previous oldest existing copies. The amazing thing is that it was word for word perfect in over 95%, and the differences that did exist were minor changes and mistakes that did not change the meaning of the text.
As for the New Testament, there are over 5000 copies of it dated from within the first and second century AD, and many of them have been found in other languages and other places aside from Greek and Aramaic. They all agree almost exactly, with some small differences in certain, minor things.
For example, that Greek has several different words for "love" that all mean slightly different things.
Eros: A physical love, like between husband and wife.
Stergo: A love between famimly members, like between parents and children.
Philo: Love between friends, not in a sexual way.
Agape: Unconditional love, this is always how the love of God for us is written
Now when translating this to English, we only have one word for love. So they write love, and in a foot note will mention what kind of love this refers to. You could argue that the English translation is now not 100% accurate, but it is to the best of their ability and the meaning has really not changed. Some people believe that the King James Version is the only true translation, but I can guarantee you that Jesus never said "Thou". It was just the language of the time. We now have many different translations in English. There is New American Standard, New Living Translation, New International Version, and on and on. They all have some differences. Like the NAS is a little older and sounds a little more stiff than modern English. The NIV is very close to what we use today, and a version called The Message is very conversational and uses a lot of slang. But they are all translated by many, many scholars who study all of the oldest available manuscripts and provide the most accurate translation possible. I have good friend of my parents who knows Greek, and has studied the New Testament in it's original language. It's not uncommon for a pastor to know some Greek, becuase it is a common subject in bible schools.
There is no evidence to suggest that the Bible has been changed over time. There is more collaborating evidence for the Bible than any other book or manuscript. Don't you think that if there really was evidence that the Bible was changed it would be very well known? Scientists and scholars are always trying to destroy the Bible, but they have not found anything to back their beliefs. In fact, some of the people who first intended to disprove the Bible have instead found the evidence to be so overwhelmingly in favor of the Bible that they have become Christians.
One last thing about this: One thing I was often taught in college math classes was to perform a sanity check on your answer. Basically, it just means to see if the answer makes sense at all. So I propose this: If the Bible was change, why would the hero die? Why would he reject all the things we enjoy in life. If someone was trying to corrupt it, why would they instead make something that is completely against all human reasoning? How can one man dying save all of mankind? Why would they change it to say that you should love your enemy instead of getting the justice you deserve? Why would they tell you it was impossible to do it on your own, and doing good isn't enough? Is there any other religion that teaches that? Why would they say that Jesus is the only way instead of the idea that he is one of many prophets that many other religions say? Wouldn't they clean up the problems that the other famous Biblical leaders had? Like David's adultery? Like the continual rebellion and disobedience of the Jews away from God. If you are trying to make God look better, wouldn't you make his chosen people win all the battles in the end and live happily ever after? The truth the Bible teaches is completely opposite of human nature and goes against everything people want to believe, which is why it is so vehemently opposed.
This is just a small defense of the validity of the Bible. If you really want the truth, my arguments won't convince you. There are people who have devoted their entire lives to studying this, and there have been many books written about it. Read something like <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0785243631/ref=cm_cr_dp_2_1/102-0695780-3900154?v=glance&s=books&vi=customer-reviews>this</a> or <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0310209307/102-0695780-3900154?v=glance">this</a>.
Lazy, I consider you my friend and I look up to you in so many ways. You are the funniest person I know, and I am amazed at your discipline to do such hard school work so quickly and so well. I know first hand how difficult school really is, and you are an inspiration to me to keep pushing on and to chase my dreams. You are also a very intelligent person. Many of my engineering friends foolishly think that you have to be a math expert or programmer or physicist to be intelligent, but I think that people can be smart and talented in many ways besides engineering. Please don't take any of this as a personal attack against you. I don't want to lose you as a friend.
I don't intend to push this on anybody. I do think a lot of what you said is not true, but there is a lot I once believed that I now know is also not true. I remember hearing a story of NASA scientists who were trying to calculate the age of the earth based on all sorts of stuff, and supposedly there was some discrepancy that messed their calcualtions up, like there was an extra half a day that they couldn't account for. One of the scientist pointed out the account in the Bible of God making the sun stand still during a battle to helpot the Israelites win, and when they put this information in everything worked perfectly. I had heard this story many times, but when I began to research it to find the specifics I found the entire thing is made up. Not only that, but it has existed in one form or another for hundreds of year, with the scientists using an abacus or who knows what to prove the Bible is real. This is just one example of the some of the lies I've come across where people have thought they needed to make something up to prove the Bible is true. But the truth always comes out, and these people make everyone who believes in God look a fool.
I know that we could all sit here and discuss evidence until we die of old age and nobody could change their mind about anything. That is why I hate debates, because usually we get too caught up in winning than searching. Pride is a powerful thing. If nothing else this talk has convinced me I need to do a lot more research in this, because I would like to give you concrete answers but I just don't have the specific numbers a lot fof the time,a nd that does little to convince you of anything. I've spent a lot of time here just trying to learn more about people who don't believe the same things I do. I thank you guys for being honest and hope we can always all be open minded about all this stuff. I'm not very good at communicating and making a clear concise point, which is why I tend to ramble on for pages and pages... But thanks for putting up with me anyway.
News From the Goron Front - OB1 - 16th April 2004
I didn't mean to make you sound ignorant, it's just that not everyone who you may come across will have all of the facts. :)
My family and I almost moved to China in 1994, actually, but we opted to move to Croatia where my mother is from. I have a lot of friends in China, and I'm well acquainted with what religious teachers can and cannot do there.
I don't know anyone who's been to Morocco, but if you know people who've been there I would talk in great depth about what you should be careful of on your visit. The first thing I'd suggest--and I suggest this if you're going to any country in that region--is to try to mask your American identity. You have to be very careful about this, as we are especially hated in that part of the world. If people ask, say that you're Canadian, no matter how embarrasing that may be ( :p ), and don't bring anything with you (other than the obvious things such as a passport) that will make you stand out as a U.S. citizen.
News From the Goron Front - alien space marine - 17th April 2004
Quote: didn't know that God condoned slavery
He doesnt, Abraham was a sinful imperfect man like the rest of us, In Abrahams time people would be sold as slaves for comiting crimes and lose their freedom as a punnishment this was somthing the Egyptians and other ancient goverments had done.The romans did it too soldiers who disorted would be sold as slaves and possibly fight in a Gladiator arena.
the reason Abraham owned slaves was because he had not had any sons untill he was a old man, He needed someone to help care for his sheep and his farm, Seeing as how brutal people in the world treated slaves wiping and so fourth, I think he bought them to save them from that brutality. Mosiac law was not written at that time so Abraham had no guidance in what God thought was wrong so he had to go by what God told him and his own concious. When christianity came Jesus wanted all the slaves to be freed and taught the word of god.
News From the Goron Front - UltraMarioMan - 17th April 2004
Quote:But man, having the 70 virgins and all the steaks I can eat... after I die, sounded really awesome.Or 70 raisins depending on the translation!
News From the Goron Front - lazyfatbum - 17th April 2004
Haha, yeah, I did mean 15 hundred. Officially though, they began in 1000 BC as a farm colony and didn't end until the 800's AD when the last of their empire was sacked.
LL, I really want to debate alot of the things you're bringing up with facts and real history. I want to talk to you about the 20 year gap in the life of Jesus and the entire Jewish history so you can get a real understanding of it and I want to show you that all religions, especially Christianity is based on fear and the power to control people in society. But I wont and the reason is that it doesn't matter what is fact, it doesn't matter what is truth, all that matters is what helps us in our lives and Christianity has obviously helped you, God bless you. I hope it proves to be even more successful for you in your life.
OB1/ Fuck Muslims. They are an inhuman race of idiot savages. Why dont you and all your little muslim buddies go pray to some bricks, douche bag. (What? I cant just leave the thread without starting a new argument now can I!?)