Darunia's Baseball Discussion Thread

[The Former DMiller]

I'm glad to see the Pads turned it around after their bad start. I wish I could say the same about the Cubs. Hopefully series against the Astros and Rockies will help them turn it around.

[Weltall]

Go Nats!

[OB1]

Your avatar is confusing! I thought you were LL for a second.

[A Black Falcon]

we... must... win...

Tied with five games to go and a 3-game series vs. the Yankees to end the season... ack... couldn't we have just won already? :(

Sure, we won the series last year, but the series isn't the divison, and we haven't won that since what, 1995... and that matter a lot, to me at least...

[Great Rumbler]

I don't care about baseball anymore this year. *Rangers are 13 games behind*

[Darunia]

It couldn't be other way... with four more games in the regular season, the Sox and the Yankees are in a dead tie. It always comes down to this, doesn't it.... looks like another big postseason.

[Weltall]

...I'm just waiting for baseball to be over so the networks can devote their time exclusively towards football.

Hurry up.

[A Black Falcon]

Don't worry, there's another month. :)

[Laser Link]

The Padres are about to clinch the NL West! With a losing record...

This is so embarrassing :(

[A Black Falcon]

Yeah, on the one hand, your team is winning the division... but on the other hand, that division is having an amazingly bad year, and that record wouldn't be good enough for anything above last place in the NL East... ouch. :)

[Darunia]

Don't get too excited, Ryan---Football sucks.

Well, Bronson Arroyo, the Bane of Red Sox Nation, handed the Blue Jay's an easy win tonight... and since the New York Buttfuckers won tonight, they take the lead.

[A Black Falcon]

We can catch up, we're playing them in Fenway for the last three... but yeah, I did not want to go into that series behind. :(

I'd say "if all else fails hope that Chicago sweeps the Indians so that the AL East gets the wildcard", but I don't want the wildcard again, I want the division...

Don't get too excited, Ryan---Football sucks.

It's certainly the least interesting of the five major sports. ... of the six major sports, if you include soccer. ... something else Darunia and I agree on I guess...

[Great Rumbler]

Football is the most awesome sport ever in the history of sports.

...

Except curling.

[Weltall]

I don't find baseball at all exciting myself. Too simplistic.

[A Black Falcon]

I don't find football that exciting myself. Too simplistic. :)

[EdenMaster]

Football is not simplistic. Football is a very in-depth sport with a lot involved in it. If you have the ball, you've got four chances to run or pass the ball 10 yards to pick up a fresh set of downs. 10 yards can be tough to gain, especially if the opposing team can blitz the quarterback quickly and put him under pressure. You've got to fight your way down the field. Down the hardest 100 yards there is, and you earn every single yard with well executed plays and perfect teamwork. That's just the most basic element of football, too. Only those with an understanding of the sport can truly appreciate it.

In baseball...you hit a ball with a stick and run in a circle.



Why is there even a comparison?

[A Black Falcon]

In football you run at the other guys hard and hope your guys push harder. What fun.

That's about as accurate as saying "In baseball...you hit a ball with a stick and run in a circle."... well, more so, from my perspective... :)

Baseball is a very complex sport, you know it, and you're just trying to cause trouble.

[Weltall]

Football is incredibly complex. For even a simple running play to work, the five offensive linemen have to push forward, and not randomly: They have to push at specific points to open holes for the running back, and once they do that, if they manage to, they have to keep the defensive linemen from getting past, or even worse: opening a hole for linebackers or safeties to get in themselves and tackle for a loss.

The running back himself has to know which tackles are going to open his holes and where. He has to be able to read his blockers and react to the defense. If he's large, he can try to plow through. If not, he has to try and fake his defender out, or try to break a tackle.

The recievers have to follow the defenders and keep track of where his RB is at the same time, for on a running play, recievers and tight ends also have to throw blocks, sometimes against larger and stronger linebackers. There is a lot of anticipation involved. At the same time, the reciever may also have to run a short route to stay open in case a pass has to be forced, or to fake out the corners if it's a play-action or draw.

The Quarterback is the maestro. He has to make sure the ball gets to his runner safely, or, if he's calling a pass, he has to scan the field, be totally aware of his recievers, how well they are covered, and what their routes are. He has to throw to where the receiver is supposed to be, and sometimes that means he has to help his recevier shake his defender with a fake... look to one side of the field and then throw to the other, drawing the coverage. All the while, he has to avoid getting sacked, because everyone on the other side of the ball is coming after him.

The D-line has to punch holes in the O-line and disrupt the QB's protection. It's not just rushing forward. If it's a blitz, they have to punch through at specific points, to open holes for the linebackers to blitz through open holes and get a clean shot at the back. They have to be aware of who has the ball, where it's going, and how it's getting there. If the running back suddenly cuts left, you have to adjust, because the O-Line will be throwing harder blocks from that direction. Then you have to be sure it's not a fake, everyone going after the running back while the QB has all the time in the world to throw wherever he wants.

Linebackers have to know when to blitz and when to play coverage, and on whom to play coverage, all while keeping the center of the field safe. They have to work in tandem with both the secondary and the front three or four. They are the disruptors, and they have to move around to disguise their intent. If a linebacker shuffles well, the offense will not know what he's going to do. Is he going to blitz from the weakside, or is he going to drop into coverage? Would he even try to blitz from where he is? He might.

The secondary has the hardest job, physically, for they have to keep an eye on lightning fast recievers and they have to anticipate the complex routes they run, stay with them step for step, and neutralize the threat somehow. They can't interfere, for it draws penalties, so they have to blanket these fast, tall guys, try to convince the QB not to pass his way, do his best to disrupt the pass if it does, and bring the receiver down if he can't stop the pass.

And all of it has to happen in complete synchronization or none of it works at all and someone's getting burned.

Not simple at all.

What's so complex about baseball? To know what pitch to throw? To decide to steal a plate? Meh.

[A Black Falcon]

Oh come on, like you think that if I really wanted to I couldn't write twice that much about how complex baseball is? Yeah. Of course I could. But that would probably be a waste of time... a few points though.

1. Hitting a baseball is the most challenging thing in sports. This is obvious when you look at batting averages. The best hitters to have ever lived might, if they are lucky, manage to hit four times out of ten over the course of a season once in their career... and even that hasn't happened in sixty years. Nothing else compares to the batter/pitcher duel that is the centerpoint of baseball. Not even remotely close.

2. You spend a lot of time there talking about how the positioning of each player matters so much. It is equally so in baseball, or any sport. You don't just send the players out into the field and expect them to figure out where to be on their own! Positioning your players is a very complex task... do you back them up for a power hitter, making more sure that the ball won't go past them but making a hit more likely, or move them forward, hoping for a catch but knowing that if they miss it'll probably go for extra bases... do you do a shift (moving the players over towards one side of the field or another) for some specific good players who you know always hit on one side or the other... what pitches to throw and where (you belittle it, but this is a very involved, complex process which can involve large numbers of statistics -- how has batter X done against pitcher Y's curveball over the course of his career? Against Y's fastball? Etc. Baseball is a game of numbers, and the stats are a central and vital part of the game, more so than in the other sports. In football or soccer or something it's harder to isolate out one person's specific contribution as opposed to the team, but in baseball that's much easier, because of the one-on-one nature of the pitcher and batter matchup... this makes baseball statistics a very detailed and popular business. And that's not even getting in to switching players (remember, in baseball, once someone leaves the field they are gone for the duration of the game. No "returning" them later allowed.), and the complexities of when to change pitchers or go to a reliever or a different reliever... as people like managers who don't pull a pitcher, only to have them fold (and thus have everyone blame the manager) learn to their sorrow. :)

3. Duration -- a baseball season is 162 games. That's a long time, and a lot of games... baseball's not just a once-a-week thing where one mistake can doom your whole season. Six game losing streak? Oh well, you'll probably do better next week... it's a very different (and I of course would say better) tone. I mean, how much does it really mean when you just play sixteen games... that throws in a much larger luck factor than you have in baseball. Not good.

[Weltall]

When you play sixteen games, each one counts for a lot. It means that a good team has to put forth great effort each and every week if they want to reach the post-season. Yes, it means a losing streak can doom your season quickly... only 3 NFL teams that started with an 0-3 record have reached the playoffs in the last fifteen years. That's a good thing. It means players can't sit around and lose six meaningless games without major consequence, thus leading to a far more competitive nature and a much more intense game.

There are a lot of reasons baseball is no longer America's pasttime. That's one. The total lack of parity is another. It's almost always the same damn teams in the postseason every year. Small-market teams have too little chance to improve themselves. A salary-cap is so needed in baseball. Fans of the Braves, Red Sox, Yankees, they're all happy every year because their teams can afford a lot of talent. Small-market teams can't, and I'm amazed any of them still have fanbases.

[A Black Falcon]

When you play sixteen games, each one counts for a lot. It means that a good team has to put forth great effort each and every week if they want to reach the post-season. Yes, it means a losing streak can doom your season quickly... only 3 NFL teams that started with an 0-3 record have reached the playoffs in the last fifteen years. That's a good thing. It means players can't sit around and lose six meaningless games without major consequence, thus leading to a far more competitive nature and a much more intense game.

That's one way to spin it, but I think what I said is far more accurate... yes, it puts more emphasis on each game in a short season, but as I said, it greatly enhances the impact of luck in who wins. Anyone can win a game or five, but only a good team is going to be consistent over 162...

There are a lot of reasons baseball is no longer America's pasttime. That's one. The total lack of parity is another. It's almost always the same damn teams in the postseason every year. Small-market teams have too little chance to improve themselves. A salary-cap is so needed in baseball. Fans of the Braves, Red Sox, Yankees, they're all happy every year because their teams can afford a lot of talent. Small-market teams can't, and I'm amazed any of them still have fanbases.

It's not as bad as you think. Eight teams get into the postseason each year (there's another good thing, not as much postseason bloat like basketball and hockey have), and the last three winners have been the wildcard team... it's not always the biggest teams that win. Midmarket teams like Florida have won recently, and the Angels, and Toronto and Minnesota won in the early '90s... Arizona... etc... yes, there are a few teams that are consistently bad, but just look at this season -- who in their right mind could possibly have predicted this finish? I mean, yes, Red Sox, Yankees, Braves, Cardinals... okay. But the White Sox winnin the AL Central? CLEVELAND in the running for the wild card with three games left? San Diego winning the NL West... likely with a losing record? Yeah, didn't think so... so no, it's not nearly as predictable as you imply. Hey, even Milwaukee managed to finish around (above, currently, but there are four more games...) .500 this year... you never quite know.

[Darunia]

Baseball is the all-American pastime. It's as American as apple pie. Baseball is much older, and there's much more of it to enjoy... more teams, and MANY more games per season. A grandslam is the epitome of excitement, and the crack of the baseball bat is like a shot of adrenaline. The only cracking you'll hear in football is that of bones being broken. Football is... what big, dumb guys who work as mailmen and physical laborers like to watch on Sundays.

I'm Darunia B. Goron, and that's my opinion.

[Fittisize]

It's certainly the least interesting of the five major sports. ... of the six major sports, if you include soccer. ... something else Darunia and I agree on I guess...

Hockey, baseball, football, basketball, soccer apparently....what's number six?

All of the sports listed are very complex, but all stem from pretty basic ideas...that being said, all are very fun to both play and watch, but hockey being the most physically draining and most difficult to play, not to mention having the highest level of complexity and the toughest players from any sport naturally make it number one. :p

[A Black Falcon]

After blowing the division like that the Red Sox don't deserve to be going to the playoffs... stupid wildcard...

[Weltall]

And those Patriots! Dark days in America's armpit city!

[Darunia]

I foresee:

Red Sox/White Sox Yanks/Angels
\ /
Red Sox vs. Angels
\



Padres/Cards Braves/Astros
\ /
Cards vs. Braves
/

2005 World Series: Red Sox vs. Braves, Red Sox win in 6

!!!!You heard it here first!!!!

[The Former DMiller]

I just checked back at my picks from the beginning of the year and I got 4 out of the 6 playoff teams right. I even had the matchups in the AL exactly right. Except I said the Angels would have the best record in the AL and the Yankees would be the Wild Card. I really don't know why I pick against the Braves anymore. They just always find a way to make the playoffs. Anyway, I may as well stick with my Angels over Padres pick from the beginning of the season just for consistencies sake, but I don't see that one coming true.

[A Black Falcon]

Pick against the Braves? Maybe logically it made sense, with all those rookies and all, but like usual, they made it work... I thought they'd win again.

Angels-Padres... hmm... no. Angels maybe, but the Padres? Yeah right... they're out round one. Sorry LL. :)

While they did finish with a winning record, barely... they are now the proud owners of the MLB record for the lowest winning percentage for a playoff team in MLB history (excluding strike years)! Contrats... I guess... :D
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=251002125

[Darunia]

Cards'll own the Padres. The Padres'll be lucky if they don't get outwright swept.