Dead or Alive 4... for the XB360?

[OB1]

No one was talking about that...

[A Black Falcon]

Um, what's so odd about talking about game engine liscencing after someone brings up game engine liscencing?

[OB1]

She was talking about using it for different genres, and made her post sound like it was replying to something that we said about that.

[A Black Falcon]

Um... huh? We were talking about engines! DJ responded by saying that he thinks that saying that most games use liscenced engines is a misunderstanding, etc, etc! It was a direct reply to what we had been discussing. Seriously, just look back at it. The only problem with DJ's post is that it's a bit hard to understand.

[OB1]

DJ started her post with "That's a bit of a misunderstanding."

Ok, what, exactly, is a misunderstanding here? Who was that directed towards? Please point out the post!

[A Black Falcon]

The whole post, OB1. In the third post you said

It looks great for this gen, but crap for next. Can't even touch Unreal 3 tech.

and that started

Incidently, Silicon Knights has the exclusive rights to makes games based on the Unreal 3 engine.

Yeah.

Yeah, that looks great for this gen, but next-gen? I'd expect more...

As for SK and the Unreal 3 engine, I heard about that, interesting... I wonder if that says anything about what their next game will be...

Maybe we'll see some games based on it before the end of the decade.

All it says is that it should look purdy. Every game company and their uncle is using unreal 3 tech for next-gen.

the 'misunderstading' part probably refers to this part.

The next generation of FPSes are mostly going to be powered by it or Doom 3, so I'm sure we will.

What about Quake 4?

Doom 3.

Okay.

That's a bit of a misunderstanding. The engines for various 3D computer games, mostly FPS games, but some adventure games too, did in fact use the same original game's engine, but not all, not by a long shot. And no, I don't mean the ones that looked aweful. I mean the ones that actually looked just as good but used a unique engine, simply so they had control over it. Nintendo won't be using the new unreal engine for sure, though games will likely look just as good as it, or better.

Seriously, how more on topic could DJ have been? Just ignore those ten posts of garbage and it makes perfect sense. He just needs to use quotes.

[OB1]

You still make no sense.

[A Black Falcon]

[OB1]

Really, her post makes no sense, and neither does your explanation. GR says that the Doom 3 engine is going to be used in some next-gen games, then DJ says that "that" is a misunderstanding, and goes on to explain that "the engines for various 3D computer games, mostly FPS games, but some adventure games too, did in fact use the same original game's engine, but not all, not by a long shot"...

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN. What's "the same original game"? That post doesn't make any sense within the context of this thread!

[A Black Falcon]

I give up, you clearly can't understand...

[OB1]

you clearly can't understand

Yes, this is correct!

[Great Rumbler]

I certainly don't!

[OB1]

I'm glad I'm not alone.

[Great Rumbler]

Maybe if DJ used some QUOTE TAGS once in a while.

[A Black Falcon]

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN. What's "the same original game"? That post doesn't make any sense within the context of this thread!

I took this to mean DJ was saying that games using the engines from other games were not as common as we were making it seem. It's definitely confusing, and badly needing quotes, but it can be understood... I think.

Really, DJ, just post and say what you meant... I don't want to defend you... but I have to, since my posts were in response to DJ's and based on the assumption that I understood them. :)

[Paco]

I think they look okay. There is clearly more background detail than any fighter of this generation. Plus the clothes look far more sophisticated than any fighter, aside from looking great they actually seem to hang on the fighters. It could look spectacular in motion.

I think what's holding it back is some proper lighting, and the anime style of the series.

This isn't running on final hardware so I'll reserve judgement until then, but I think it's going to look kick ass.

[OB1]

It looks only a step better than DOA3. It should look as good as the game's FMV.

[Paco]

What about that pic doesn't look better than the FMV from DOA3?

[A Black Falcon]

Oh, yes, the graphics look quite nice... I guess the problem is expecting a giant leap from this generation like we got in past ones. That doesn't seem to be the case.

[OB1]

I don't know mate, you tell me:









DOA4 looks fantastic, but only a step above DOA3/U. It should look like the difference between DOA1 and DOA3. That was a generational leap. This is most certainly not.

[A Black Falcon]

Hmm... I think that that FMV might look better than the DOA4 shots, but both look pretty good.

[Paco]

I'm only speaking from having watched the FMV endings of Dead or Alive 3. They might look okay in hi-res still shots, but seeing them in motion they become just okay.

I have not played Dead or Alive Ultimate.

I think the clothes rival anything in those shots you provided, the facial expressions not so much. Then again, this isn't on final hardware.;)

[OB1]

Yes indeed, DOA4 truly blows away DOAU.


Just look!



Shitty-looking DOAU:














Super-crazy-awesome-so-much-betterer DOA4:









OMG the difference is like night and... somewhat later night!!!!

[A Black Falcon]

You can definitely tell the difference -- especially with details like the clothes -- but yeah, it's nowhere near the jump we saw from NES to SNES, SNES to N64, or N64 to Cube (to use Nintendo platforms as the basis).

[OB1]

Like I said, it's a step up. Just not nearly as big of one as it should be. XBOX 1.5.

[A Black Falcon]

I like that label... :)

[Paco]

Like I said, it's a step up. Just not nearly as big of one as it should be. XBOX 1.5.

I'm curious as to how you're qualifying that. Especially seeing as how the hardware is not even finalized.

Watch Gears of War yet? How about Project Gotham 3? What's your take on those?

[Great Rumbler]

They'd better finalize it pretty soon! It goes on the market in 6 months!

[Private Hudson]

Keep in mind that the gap from XBox to XBox 360 isn't as long as most generational gaps, either. I wouldn't be expecting a leap like that seen in DOA to DOA3..

That looks only slightly better than DOA3/Tekken 5.

Anyways, DOA is certainly not the graphical showcase for Microsoft this gen.

[Paco]

They'd better finalize it pretty soon! It goes on the market in 6 months!

It was just finalized, the developers still have yet to receive final development kits though.

Keep in mind that the gap from XBox to XBox 360 isn't as long as most generational gaps, either. I wouldn't be expecting a leap like that seen in DOA to DOA3..

It's hard for that to make sense when you know what's under the hood of the Xbox 360. It's many times more powerful than the Xbox.

[Private Hudson]

But it's still only a 3 year technological gap, as opposed to the 5/6 years that is the norm.

[Paco]

4 year technological gap.

That's irrelevant. We're going from a 700 Ghz cpu, 64 MB of ram, and a GPU capable of pumping out at the most 25 million polygons ----> 3*3.2 Ghz cpu, 512 MB of ram, and a GPU capable of pushing out 500 million polygons with non-trivial shaders. That's a significant increase in power, way more than anything you're seeing right now on PC.

Like I said, people are being way to hasty in their judgement on next gen.

[OB1]

I'm curious as to how you're qualifying that. Especially seeing as how the hardware is not even finalized.

Watch Gears of War yet? How about Project Gotham 3? What's your take on those?

Oh for fuck's sake, is that going to be the xbot slogan this generation? "It's not on final hardware OMG!!!". The system launches in SIX MONTHS, boyee!

I'm "qualifying" this by looking at the leaps from past years. Everyone at MS is talking about how the XB360 is "six times more powerful than XB", yet all we've seen so far is stuff that looks like it came from MS's own 32X-type device. So far, the leap is nowhere near even the N64-DC leap. PGR3 looks great, but again still not next-gen. Gears of Wars... let's wait until they show some better video of it running off of XB360 hardware.

4 year technological gap.

That's irrelevant. We're going from a 700 Ghz cpu, 64 MB of ram, and a GPU capable of pumping out at the most 25 million polygons ----> 3*3.2 Ghz cpu, 512 MB of ram, and a GPU capable of pushing out 500 million polygons with non-trivial shaders. That's a significant increase in power, way more than anything you're seeing right now on PC.

Like I said, people are being way to hasty in their judgement on next gen.

Complete nonsense. We're not even getting stuff as good as PS2 FMV. The leap so far looks tiny. Nothing comes close to stuff like Unreal 3.

[Paco]

The leap so far isn't even on final hardware. Yes, I'm going to keep bringing that up because it's valid. There's quite a difference between an alpha development kit and a final development kit, get over it.

[OB1]

..

[Paco]

We're not even getting stuff as good as PS2 FMV.

Show me a first generation game of the current batch of consoles that equals the FMV from the last generation of the Playstation games.

[OB1]

The current FMV in console games such as Ninja Gaiden or DOAU don't look as different from the real-time stuff as say, the FMV in FFVIII compared to its real-time graphics so that leap is unrealistic. Basically, the next best thing after this generation is the type of stuff scene in FMV like NG and DOA. Anything lesser is not good enough to be called "next-gen".

[Paco]

The current FMV in console games such as Ninja Gaiden or DOAU don't look as different from the real-time stuff as say, the FMV in FFVIII compared to its real-time graphics so that leap is unrealistic. Basically, the next best thing after this generation is the type of stuff scene in FMV like NG and DOA.

Lol, I wasn't aware there were terms and conditions. So it's only some FMV you're talking about, eh?

No, I asked you to show me a first generation game from this current batch of consoles to compare to the FMV of the last generation of Playstation games. Because that's essentially what you're doing right now.

Ninja Gaiden and Dead or Alive Ultimate were not launch games.

Anything lesser is not good enough to be called "next-gen".

Where's that measuring stick?;)

[Great Rumbler]

Those first screenshots of PD0 definitely do not qualify as "next-gen" and the DOA4 only do to an extent. Now the screenshots of God of War and Unreal Tournament 2007, those are next-gen, no question.

[OB1]

Lol, I wasn't aware there were terms and conditions. So it's only some FMV you're talking about, eh?

No, I asked you to show me a first generation game from this current batch of consoles to compare to the FMV of the last generation of Playstation games. Because that's essentially what you're doing right now.

Ninja Gaiden and Dead or Alive Ultimate were not launch games.

FMV technology has not changed at the same consistent level as in-game graphics over the decade.

Where's that measuring stick?

Right here.

[Paco]

FMV technology has not changed at the same consistent level as in-game graphics over the decade.

I see, so why is it again you're using it as some sort of standard?

Metal Gear Solid 2 was not a launch title. If I remember correctly it came out a whole year after the PS2 was launched. But you may correct me if I'm wrong.

[Great Rumbler]

Metal Gear Solid 1 came out about 3 and half years after the launch of the PSX, though.

[OB1]

MGS2 came out four years after MGS1. That's how old the XB will be when the 360 comes out.

And again, I said that next-gen visuals should be able to stand up to FMV from Tecmo's XB games, which the Unreal 3 stuff does. No, the Unreal 3 pics actually surpass that FMV. PD0 looks like Halo 2 in most of the shots and just barely better than HL2 in others. DOA4 looks just a bit better than DOAU. There should be a far greater leap in visuals. What I am saying, what everyone is saying (even the biggest xbots at places like teamxbox), is that so far the XB360 looks more to be an XBox 1.5 than a true next-generation system.

[Paco]

MGS2 came out four years after MGS1. That's how old the XB will be when the 360 comes out.

And again, I said that next-gen visuals should be able to stand up to FMV from Tecmo's XB games, which the Unreal 3 stuff does. No, the Unreal 3 pics actually surpass that FMV. PD0 looks like Halo 2 in most of the shots and just barely better than HL2 in others. DOA4 looks just a bit better than DOAU. There should be a far greater leap in visuals. What I am saying, what everyone is saying (even the biggest xbots at places like teamxbox), is that so far the XB360 looks more to be an XBox 1.5 than a true next-generation system.

Then it might surprise you to know that there are several games that use the Unreal 3 engine on Xbox 360. Gears of War being one of them, and that looks fantastic. Oh, and Unreal Tournament 2007 has also been announced for the 360, in case you didn't know.

[Smoke]

The initial reaction to Perfect Dark Zero did cause a lot of people to wonder if the Xbox 360 really is just an "Xbox 1.5" but after looking at some of the other games it doesn't look like that's the case.

You can't blame Xbox 360 for Perfect Dark Zero's suckiness, that falls directly on Rare's shoulders.

[OB1]

Then it might surprise you to know that there are several games that use the Unreal 3 engine on Xbox 360. Gears of War being one of them, and that looks fantastic. Oh, and Unreal Tournament 2007 has also been announced for the 360, in case you didn't know.

As soon as they show some gameplay videos of the game running at a smooth framerate, I will become a believer. Your argument is inconsistent. On one hand you say that the PD0 shots look easily as good as Unreal 3... and then you try to excuse them by saying that they're early and that Unreal 3 is coming out for the system. Stick to one argument. You're contradicting yourself.

[A Black Falcon]

There should be a far greater leap in visuals.

Oh, the leap, by the base numbers, is just about as big. I think the problem is (as I have said before) we're just not getting as much of a difference from that increased performance...

You can't blame Xbox 360 for Perfect Dark Zero's suckiness, that falls directly on Rare's shoulders.

Oh, by no means is X-Box 360 as big a leap up graphically as previous generations. But at that point I'm not sure if that big a leap is possible, especially in just four years, and it's definitely a step up... but yeah, given the other stuff we have seen on the 360, PD0 shouldn't be looking that bad.

[Paco]

As soon as they show some gameplay videos of the game running at a smooth framerate, I will become a believer. Your argument is inconsistent. On one hand you say that the PD0 shots look easily as good as Unreal 3... and then you try to excuse them by saying that they're early and that Unreal 3 is coming out for the system. Stick to one argument. You're contradicting yourself.

I never contradicted myself and I still stand by everything I said earlier. And don't put words in my mouth; I never said the PD0 shots look as good as the Unreal shots, I have specifically referred to the character models and animation this whole time. How many times have I pointed out that I think they are as impressive as the Unreal character models? Once, twice, perhaps three times now? The PD0 shots as a whole are not nearly as polished as those in the Unreal shots, I don't contest that.

If anything my mentioning that the Unreal 3 engine will be powering some Xbox 360 games supports my arguement that PD0 can look as good, and as I've mentioned already I think the character models do.

[Great Rumbler]

I have specifically referred to the character models and animation this whole time.

[OB1]

I never contradicted myself and I still stand by everything I said earlier. And don't put words in my mouth; I never said the PD0 shots look as good as the Unreal shots, I have specifically referred to the character models and animation this whole time. How many times have I pointed out that I think they are as impressive as the Unreal character models? Once, twice, perhaps three times now? The PD0 shots as a whole are not nearly as polished as those in the Unreal shots, I don't contest that.

If anything my mentioning that the Unreal 3 engine will be powering some Xbox 360 games supports my arguement that PD0 can look as good, and as I've mentioned already I think the character models do.

There is absolutely nothing impressive about the PD0 animations! Nothing! If you're really such an expert on animation though, please, articulate your opinion!

And the models are the worst part! 5,000 polys! 5,000! And it shows, oh man does it show. Leon in RE4 is comprised of 10,000 polys, in comparison.