Chill pill time.

[Weltall]

Wow. It's amazing what happens when you're unable to poke in daily.

I've spent time (mostly in Pay Attention) trying to figure out what's going on. And I think I have a pretty good grip on the situation. Now I have a few things to say to everyone, and while I don't like to single individuals out, there's really no avoiding it. Thus, I'll start with the crux, that being your friend and mine, OB1.

It's said here that OB1 argues with everyone, and can be such an itch under the skin that one can't help but try to scratch it. Personally, I disagree. I've gotten into some heated debates over Star Wars with him, and a few other things of little importance, but I never get into long, novelistic flamewars with him. Why? Partially because I know him, and I know belaboring the point can be a fruitless task with him. I know that his endurance is beyond legendary, even if his patience is anything but. However, even when he and I disagree, we never get into thermonuclear wars. Why? Because I do know when to stop. Yes, OB1 does seem to always have the last word, but so do those of you who toe it out with him (read: ABF). The two of you go on for ages, and I have always said it's because you both love the thrill of the fight, or whatever you call it. However, some of you are as guilty of not knowing when to stop as he is. ABF, I'm looking at you now. (Funny enough, if there's anyone that I find irresistable to argue with, it's ABF... but even then, it does sometimes get to a point where there's no point in going on).

Aside from N_A, the first person I picked to admin here was OB1. It was a tough decision, considering that there were several other people who had been mods and admins, but I felt perhaps a fresh face was in order. It was a token of my trust, when I needed every bit I could get. Since then, I've appointed many mods and admins, and now, practially everyone has the power. I pay out my pocket to operate this place, and over the time I have it's cost me over a thousand bucks. That I allow so many of you total access to every part of Tendo City, to something that a terribly cheap man like me actually shells out money for every month, shows that I have implicit trust in each and every one of you. I give all of you this power because I know you would do no wrong. Until now, I have not yet seen an example where this trust is violated. Today though, I have seen several actions which could be termed as abuses of this power, and I don't like it. Much, if not all of it, is based from misunderstandings and good intentions, and therefore, I'm not going to punish anyone. I wouldn't like to, anyway. It's not my nature. But from now on, as should always have been the case, we need discretion. Tendo City is small, but it has a lot of space and a lot of versatility. I do not mind the junk, the crap threads. I do think there are limits, but rarely have I seen them threatened. Considering the small number of regulars we have compared to the large amount of space and bandwidth we possess, I do not have a problem with individuals having their own threads, or using server space for personal use. I would greatly prefer never to have to take that away. TC is a place largely lax on rules, and this is again because I trust most of you.

So, to those with mod powers, and admin powers, remember the responsibility that goes along with them. You should only ever use your powers to solve a problem, or to fix a violation. A small number of members using a single thread for their own whimsy is not something I think merits a move or delete. On the other hand, an admin should never threaten to delete accounts because of percieved personal insult. Sit back, take a breather, and think rationally. Once again, this is a matter of trust, and no one's lost any from me this time. I hate to call people into question, and the last thing I want is for anyone to leave. I'm not paying $18 a month for my own benefit (after all, there are several people here who are far more prolific posters than I), I'm doing this for you guys. If people start to leave, I have no reason to keep this going. I'd hate to see the place die. There may be a time when my life becomes too involved for me to operate TC. It's my hope that when that time comes, if it does, that there's someone to pick up the torch and keep things going.

It was four years ago last week that I took Tendo City for my own. I was nervous, taking over a forum full of people that nine months ago would have gladly ridden me out of town on rails. I took that charge because I cared about the place, and the people who posted there. But I knew little about running a real forum, and I felt like I had little authority, considering I was one of the most recent regular members, and I wasn't quite sure I had everyone's trust. I needed a lot of help, both on the people side, and on the technical side (how many times demon and N_A saved this place from doom I couldn't even begin to count). Today, we have a nice, stable software that I know very well, and I have a group of people that I know are mine. I am friends with almost all, and I have met, or have come close to meeting, several. One such person was the loudest voice among those who wanted me banned in the beginning. Since, that man has become my best friend in the world. I've stayed at his house hundreds of miles away, and will be returning soon, hopefully.

So, to close, I want everyone to cool their jets. Grow up a little. There's no shame in refusing provocation. This is a message board, after all. It's also a community, and that's more than the sum of it's parts if it's any good. I think ours is, and I'd like it to stay that way.

So let's all kiss and make friends. To quote the first words I ever saw EdenMaster type, over five years ago, "Everyone just needs to calm the fuck down." Of course, then he proceeded to start a massive flamewar against me that lasted for years, but who cares about details? :D

[alien space marine]

Lets all cool down and play with our Twangers!

[Great Rumbler]

Ever the voice of reason, eh, Ryah? :)

Maybe now things will start to calm down and since everyone's come back we can start some real discussion!

[Dark Jaguar]

Weltall pretty much said what I wanted to. No abusing powers (random deleting, moving, and account deletion based on percieved insults), calm down, this isn't a big deal, let's all be friends and live in harmony.

I gotta say I didn't expect to show up one day and find the whole place in desolation :D. I mean, I thought if a massive meaningless war against OB1 were to start I would be the trigger! :D A bit of a relief that's not the case.

So let's continue the peaceful posting of nonsense threads. Let's go ahead and comment on the pointlessness too, and let's not take such comments as direct attacks but rather in the intended light of a joke.

Anyway, Pepsi DS's for everyone!

[Geno]

Wow, I turned my back for a few days and all hell broke loose. Reminds me of old times. Whenever I turned my back on the "Groupies" (don't ask) for two minutes just to get some chocolate milk or something, I'd come back to see a heated argument taking place among them.

[OB1]

The only reason why I threatened to delete Edenmaster's account is because I wanted an excuse to leave this place for good. I fully realized that with deleting someone's account I would be removed of my admin powers or something, and that would have prompted me to leave forever. I was this close to leaving the forum for good yesterday, and if something like this ever happens again I will not hesitate to go. The fact that EM moved our thread and deleted some posts really pissed me off. And the reason why I deleted posts in that thread has been explained already. Please check that thread.

Tendo City can be a great place to be sometimes, but for the most part it's a real drag. ABF has the amazing ability to turn everything into a heated debate, and I'm not one to back down to easily. If you've ever looked at the end of our big argument threads you'll see that 95% of the time it's me who leaves the debate. It's very time consuming and believe it or not I hate getting into arguments. The only reason I do is because I hate letting people get away with making inane comments and ridiculous claims. But I almost always have to abandon an argument with that guy. Worst yet is that he fails to do the very thing that he claims that I cannot do: admit defeat. It's an endless cycle that I do not care to participate in any longer.

I really do think that we need to de-admin a lot of people here. I'm the only one aside from you, Ryan, who has used my admin powers to help the forum. You showed me how to fix TC when it goes down and I've done it countless times over the years. I've been deleting the largest images through the control panel as per your request, and I'm the only one who splits threads that ABF and I ruin. ABF has yet to do that even once.

[A Black Falcon]

It's said here that OB1 argues with everyone, and can be such an itch under the skin that one can't help but try to scratch it. Personally, I disagree. I've gotten into some heated debates over Star Wars with him, and a few other things of little importance, but I never get into long, novelistic flamewars with him. Why? Partially because I know him, and I know belaboring the point can be a fruitless task with him. I know that his endurance is beyond legendary, even if his patience is anything but. However, even when he and I disagree, we never get into thermonuclear wars. Why? Because I do know when to stop. Yes, OB1 does seem to always have the last word, but so do those of you who toe it out with him (read: ABF). The two of you go on for ages, and I have always said it's because you both love the thrill of the fight, or whatever you call it. However, some of you are as guilty of not knowing when to stop as he is. ABF, I'm looking at you now. (Funny enough, if there's anyone that I find irresistable to argue with, it's ABF... but even then, it does sometimes get to a point where there's no point in going on).

I hate arguing with him because he won't debate. Other people here debate... you, DJ, Smoke, N_A, GR... but OB1? He does not debate. He believes that insults and yelling are effective debating tools and that a great tactic is mischaracterizing what the other person means and then convincing yourself that despite their denials they actually meant what you convinced yourself of, not what they're saying (if you listen to what they're saying at all)...

It is my firm belief that anyone who believes that about OB1 doesn't argue with him. EM said that he used to believe similar things... until this debate started and he saw how OB1 gets when he's mad. DJ's long post in the main thread also had a more realistic assessment of OB1 when he's angry. Not saying (and/or defending) things he disagrees with is the best way to stay on his good side, for sure... "I know when to stop" to me is code for "I back down when he gets insistent that I am stupid and wrong". I don't do that, and keep trying to say that I meant what I meant and actually dare to keep questioning his points, so he aims a lot of anger my way.

If you didn't see OB1 in the way he gets, it's either because you left the arguement before it got to that point, someone changed the subject, or if you have forgotten how he had came across since the arguement occurred.

http://tcforums.com/forums/showthread.ph...=star+wars

http://tcforums.com/forums/showthread.ph...=star+wars

Just read this and try to equate it with the OB1 you described above.

Tendo City can be a great place to be sometimes, but for the most part it's a real drag. ABF has the amazing ability to turn everything into a heated debate, and I'm not one to back down to easily. If you've ever looked at the end of our big argument threads you'll see that 95% of the time it's me who leaves the debate. It's very time consuming and believe it or not I hate getting into arguments. The only reason I do is because I hate letting people get away with making inane comments and ridiculous claims. But I almost always have to abandon an argument with that guy. Worst yet is that he fails to do the very thing that he claims that I cannot do: admit defeat. It's an endless cycle that I do not care to participate in any longer.

I really do think that we need to de-admin a lot of people here. I'm the only one aside from you, Ryan, who has used my admin powers to help the forum. You showed me how to fix TC when it goes down and I've done it countless times over the years. I've been deleting the largest images through the control panel as per your request, and I'm the only one who splits threads that ABF and I ruin. ABF has yet to do that even once.

I really shouldn't have to once again restate myself and show yet again how OB1 is so quick to anger and so slow to let it go, gets extremely angry over random and virtually irrelevant things, and clings to mistaken and repeatedly disproven misconceptions of people and statements that he's convinced himself of (here, his ridiculous characterizations of me), should I? OB1 has once again done my work for me. Just this time in a place more people will see.

Oh, one more thing... something frequently said here that annoys me every time it's said.

The two of you go on for ages, and I have always said it's because you both love the thrill of the fight, or whatever you call it. However, some of you are as guilty of not knowing when to stop as he is. ABF, I'm looking at you now.

I like debating, and I like long conversations and discussions of things. I don't mind spending an hour on a reply if it's worth it, and expect someone who replies to have something equally worth reading (in quality if not in length) in reply. OB1 is one of the only people here who doesn't flee from long posts with that stupid statement of "it's too long, I can't handle it" that so many people seem to have... (I hate that, running from real discussions... and then some of those people say that TC doesn't have enough content? What the heck? You don't CONTRIBUTE! (and no, a one line post a couple times a week doesn't count.))

Anyway, I like that, yes. I do not like arguing with OB1, however. The distinction is clear -- 'argue' vs. 'debate'. Debate implies a flow of discussion back and forth, debate over the points made and their relative merits, and hopefully eventually a mutually satisfactory resolution.

'Arguement' implies raised voices, insults and/or swearing, using few facts, etc.

So, something comes up. OB1 and I disagree. It starts as debate and quickly becomes arguement. Then neither of us will back down so it just continues... not because we love to repeat ourselves but because I, like him, don't want to be the one to say "I am wrong in something I believe to be right"... of course the problem is that by that point what is right, and what would be the right way to get to the truth in the matter, is often lost and both of us are just repeating probably-somewhat-accurate-but-also-somewhat-wrong statements, but... for various reasons, that's what happens most of the time when OB1 and I argue.

Sure, I think I'm the more reasonable one by far. But of course sometimes I'm wrong. The problem is that with the way OB1 discusses/debates/argues, it's really hard to reach any kind of conclusion... if he won't admit wrongness on any of the things I see him being wrong about is there a lot of reason for me to admit being wrong on the things he might be right about? And then of course sometimes I get annoyed at him too and it's hopeless.

[OB1]

You see, that right there is what creates an endless circle of hate. You think that I can't admit when I'm wrong, so whenever you know that I'm actually right, YOU refuse to admit that YOU'RE wrong. I must agree with you that I don't admit defeat very often. But that has nothing to do with pride, believe it or not, it's simply because I still believe that what I'm saying is true. You see the thing is that I rarely ever get into a debate on a subject that I don't know much about, which seems to be the opposite with you. It's never a matter of me not wanting to listen to your point of view, it's a matter of me fully understanding your point of view but disagreeing with it. If I feel a certain way about something and all you have as a counterpoint is "you are wrong", then that is not going to change my mind. Take that old Banjo Pilot "debate" as an example. Say what you will about me but lazy has even worse debating skills than I do and will simply attack someone for not understanding his point of view rather than trying to explain it better. In that thread I did not think that making a racing game where you controlled Banjo-Kazooie in the same way that you do in their platforming games would make a whole lot of sense, and lazy's points did not change my mind at first. He basically said that it's all cartoon crap so believability goes out the window, while I believe that there has to be a certain level of believability within the context of a cartoon. So we went back and forth with insults and he finally came up with another idea which would actually make sense (instead of the Kazooie-goes-on-top way they fly in the platformers, Kazooie would act as a plane and Banjo would sit on top of her, using her tail like a propeller), and I admitted that that method sounded good and made perfect sense. If only lazy had made that particular suggestion from the very beginning. Our arguing actually forced him to come up with a way that would make perfect sense, so in the end we both were effectively "right". However, after I admitted that this method would work you guys refused to end the debate and continued to throw out insults about how wrong I was for not agreeing with lazy in the beginning. So naturally I left the stupid debate for good. That is a perfect example of me being convinced of another opinion and accepting "defeat" (it's not really defeat but you guys can call it what you like). Brian, you simply don't have convincing arguments and your points rarely ever have good reasoning, IMO. And since you don't want to fix this endless cycle because of your pride nothing will ever change. That is all I will say about this. I am not going to participate in another argument.

[A Black Falcon]

You see, that right there is what creates an endless circle of hate. You think that I can't admit when I'm wrong, so whenever you know that I'm actually right, YOU refuse to admit that YOU'RE wrong. I must agree with you that I don't admit defeat very often.

Yeah.

But that has nothing to do with pride, believe it or not, it's simply because I still believe that what I'm saying is true.

I know that, and that's what makes talking with you almost impossible: even with incontrivertable proof you resist admitting you're wrong.

Saying "You're wrong a lot but won't admit it while I'm right all the time and the fact that I won't admit it is fine because I'm actually always right" is quite arrogant and self-centered, and definitely not true. NO ONE is always right.

"You should admit it when you're wrong and I'll admit it when I'm wrong (and meaning it) is a much better thing to say... if you could admit to yourself that you're wrong about anything.

You see the thing is that I rarely ever get into a debate on a subject that I don't know much about, which seems to be the opposite with you.

You have sometimes... how about PC RPGs (on PC)? I surely have a whole lot more experience with that genre than you do. You have some, but not with a whole lot of the games I mention... so it DOES go both ways.

It's never a matter of me not wanting to listen to your point of view, it's a matter of me fully understanding your point of view but disagreeing with it. If I feel a certain way about something and all you have as a counterpoint is "you are wrong", then that is not going to change my mind.

That's just not true so, so often... it's often me with the long, complex posts and you with the paragraph or two that are half insults! Oh, sure, not always, but a LOT of the time that's the way it goes. Of course, does that mean my posts are all full of correct facts? Quite probably not. But insults and "YOU ARE STUPID YOU IDIOT HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY BELIEVE SUCH DUMB THINGS???111" is not, and never will be, an effective way to refute a point...

Especially when I feel like I've disproven your case several times and you won't listen, like also seems to happen, from my perspective, with frequency.

Take that old Banjo Pilot "debate" as an example. Say what you will about me but lazy has even worse debating skills than I do and will simply attack someone for not understanding his point of view rather than trying to explain it better. In that thread I did not think that making a racing game where you controlled Banjo-Kazooie in the same way that you do in their platforming games would make a whole lot of sense, and lazy's points did not change my mind at first. He basically said that it's all cartoon crap so believability goes out the window, while I believe that there has to be a certain level of believability within the context of a cartoon. So we went back and forth with insults and he finally came up with another idea which would actually make sense (instead of the Kazooie-goes-on-top way they fly in the platformers, Kazooie would act as a plane and Banjo would sit on top of her, using her tail like a propeller), and I admitted that that method sounded good and made perfect sense. If only lazy had made that particular suggestion from the very beginning. Our arguing actually forced him to come up with a way that would make perfect sense, so in the end we both were effectively "right". However, after I admitted that this method would work you guys refused to end the debate and continued to throw out insults about how wrong I was for not agreeing with lazy in the beginning. So naturally I left the stupid debate for good. That is a perfect example of me being convinced of another opinion and accepting "defeat" (it's not really defeat but you guys can call it what you like).

Sounds like what I've described before as the one way you change your mind: By changing your position slowly until it encompasses what is correct instead of what you originally said, without ever admitting anything of the sort. You do that often near the ends of debates... after lots of yelling...

Really, can't you see that there's a better way? You don't have to respond to someone saying something you disagree with with yelling, insults, and a refusal to consider their position! Oh, sure, it's fine to defend your own position (as I do), but in a reasoned way...

Brian, you simply don't have convincing arguments and your points rarely ever have good reasoning, IMO. And since you don't want to fix this endless cycle because of your pride nothing will ever change. That is all I will say about this. I am not going to participate in another argument.

You enter with the preconception that I won't make any sense so even when I do you discount and ignore it. So of course I don't have any convincing arguements... you look at them really, really hard for every potential little niggle and then try to rip me apart over it. It's really, really hard to "debate" you because of how few facts you put in so many of your posts in arguements, which is why I end up repeating myself so much... either that or because both of us just restate our cases over and over in a circle until we give up. Both ways happen.

[OB1]

Thank you for proving my point.

[A Black Falcon]

Oh come on, I'm not being unreasonable there.

[Dark Jaguar]

Listen, both of you are merely continuing this cycle here. OB1, you had stated you would ignore ABF. I can understand your frustration, but perhaps it is best to simply do as you had previuosly said until you can look back on previous arguments from a perspective outside both the former you and ABF.

ABF, same to you. I empathize but really that won't help.

Okay, Weltall has called you both lovers a few times before, in a comedic fasion more than an insult, so I'll run with that analogy. What is needed here is a trial separation :D. Go out, argue with other people, that sort of thing.

[OB1]

I know I know, I just made one little exception here.

[A Black Falcon]

And you sincerely believe that I wasn't being reasonable there? Give it time and read what I said, it really is not except for possibly a couple of points... and a couple of points shouldn't have to derail an otherwise decent post.

[Dark Jaguar]

ABF, I see where you are coming from, but as I have said continuing an argument like this won't serve much. If you have a problem with the way OB1 goes about things, let him be for a few weeks or more and try discussing things with other people.

Now OB1 has stated that will be his last comment, and of course I see how you can be offended enough to try and keep it up. However, OB1 won't be continuing the fight, so it would be best to follow that excellent lead and drop it yourself. I know, the idea of leaving issues unresolved seems to only foster a later conflict right? I see where that is coming from, but where I am coming from is that a few weeks spent apart you may see exactly how minor an issue that really was. You both might change a bit and not even care any more. If you no longer have any cares about ANY of the issues you previously fought about, then the fight hasn't been delayed, it has been defeated by the power of TOTAL INDIFFERENCE!

[Nick Burns]

The fact that EM moved our thread and deleted some posts really pissed me off.

Like he said before in another thread, he did not delete them:

[size=2]I WATCHED HIM MOVE IT, THE DELETION DID NOT HAPPEN TILL AN HOUR AFTER THE FACT. [/size]

Due to the fact of so many admins, its really unfair to blame him, seeing as other admins were pissed off at you as well.

As for you admitting ur wrong, I have on several occasions proved you wrong myself and you still considered yourself right. ABF is not the one with the problems here, You are, cause he has admitted he's wrong.

I also find it funny that u turned on me even though I helped you with work-related items in the past, you considered me cool, and I thought the same.

Also, for the record: I hate sticky posts in general, except for rules. They are all pointless in my opinion.

Im not trying to rekindle the fire, I just want to get a few things straight.

[OB1]

Who the hell do you think you are? You have 82 posts and haven't been here in ages. Now you are a troll, so leave.

[A Black Falcon]

A better question would be 'how often do you come here?'... because you don't have to post to know what's going on. (It's better, of course, to post. :)) And if he comes regularly, then his points can certainly be called valid...

[OB1]

No sane person would lurk at Tendo City. Who on earth would want to spend their free time reading our stupid posts? And to know enough about this particular subject, Mr. Troll here would have to read entire debates between the two of us, and if that's the case then he needs to seek medical attention ASAP.

[Nick Burns]

Dear:
[_] Clueless Newbie
[X] Lamer
[X] Flamer
[X] Pervert
[X] Geek
[X] Spammer
[_] Racist
[X] Jackass
[X] Troller
[_] Fundamentalist
[_] Satanist
[X] "Expert"
[X] Wannabe
[X] Dumbass
[X] Waste of Skin/Gray matter/Blood
[_] Other:

You Are Receiving This Response Because:
[_] You imported another debate into this post
[X] You obviously don't know anything about the topic at hand
[_] You posted a 'Top 10' post.
[_] You posted a 'Religion' post
[X] You started a long, stupid thread
[X] You continued spreading a long, stupid thread
[_] Your post is absurdly off topic for where you posted it
[_] Your lack of understanding of the fundamentals is disgusting
[_] You posted a 'Lord of the Rings' post
[X] You posted a "YOU ALL SUCK" message
[_] You posted low-IQ flamebait
[_] You posted a blatantly obvious troll
[X] You followed up to a blatantly obvious troll
[X] You said "X rules, Y sucks" and gave no support for your lame statement
[X] You make no sense
[X] You made a post yet failed to say anything
[_] Your sig/alias/avatar is dreadful
[_] Your post contained nothing but psycho-babble.
[X] You are claiming that you know more than Newton, Ohm, Pavlov, etc.
[_] Your awful markup made the post unreadable
[X] You made a baseless assertion
[_] You posted SCREAMING in RANDOM CAPS (OR IN ALL CAPS) for NO APPARENT REASON
[_] YoU tYpEd SoMeThInG lAmE lIkE tHiS
[_] You say your 'L33t liek Jeffk.', Or your spelling is so bad that
no one can read it.
[_] You didn't do anything specific, but appear to be so generally
worthless that you are being flamed anyway
[_] Your complete lack of any and all grammar makes your post
physically painful to read

To Repent, You Must:
[X] Refrain from posting until you have a vague idea what you're doing
[X] Read every group you posted to for a week
[_] Give up your AOL account
[X] Bust up your modem with a hammer and eat it
[X] Tell your Mommy to up your medication
[X] Jump into a bathtub while holding your monitor (monitor must be plugged in)
[X] Actually post something relevant
[_] Read and memorize the FAQ
[X] Print your home phone number in your ads
[X] Be the guest of honor in alt.flame for a month

In Closing, I'd Like to Say:
[_] Blow me
[_] Lick me
[X] Get a clue
[X] Get a life
[_] Go away
[X] Grow up
[_] Never post again
[X] I pity your dog
[X] You need to seek psychiatric help
[X] Morons like you give ammo to pro-censorship morons
[X] Take your gibberish somewhere else
[X] Go back to school and actually learn something
[X] Learn how to post or get off the site
[X] I don't like you
[_]All of the above

Thank you for using auto reply from version 1.2

I can't help but laugh at how stupid this whole arguement is.

[A Black Falcon]

Heh... :)

No sane person would lurk at Tendo City. Who on earth would want to spend their free time reading our stupid posts? And to know enough about this particular subject, Mr. Troll here would have to read entire debates between the two of us, and if that's the case then he needs to seek medical attention ASAP.

I don't know why anyone would read our arguements, but maybe someone has sometime... :)

[EdenMaster]

No sane person would lurk at Tendo City. Who on earth would want to spend their free time reading our stupid posts? And to know enough about this particular subject, Mr. Troll here would have to read entire debates between the two of us, and if that's the case then he needs to seek medical attention ASAP.

Sometimes the arguments you two have are either the only thing happening, or the most entertaining thing going on :D

[OB1]

No wonder you people are so retarded then.

[A Black Falcon]

Mr. Exaggerator at work again, I see... it's not always THAT bad, and you know it.

[deanna]

Gah...so much drama. I think I am going back to PSX2C. I am a little frightened of you guys, plus the cursing is 2 times worse here. I take that back, they even out. Nobody likes me at either place anyways. So why be at either one you ask? Don't ask...:shake:

[Nick Burns]

IF ur not kidding, is there anyway to change your mind Deanna?

[Undertow]

Sometimes the arguments you two have are either the only thing happening, or the most entertaining thing going on :D

Hey, take that back. This internet stuff is serious business. >: (

[Great Rumbler]

Gah...so much drama. I think I am going back to PSX2C. I am a little frightened of you guys, plus the cursing is 2 times worse here. I take that back, they even out. Nobody likes me at either place anyways. So why be at either one you ask? Don't ask..

Most of the drama is over now, actually. Although I must say that you probably didn't come at the best possible time, matters being what they are. TC's really not THAT bad once you get used to it...after that you're just kind of numb. True story.

[A Black Falcon]

Most of the drama is over now, actually. Although I must say that you probably didn't come at the best possible time, matters being what they are. TC's really not THAT bad once you get used to it...after that you're just kind of numb. True story.

\

Yup...

[Dark Jaguar]

Nick Burns, I understand you only wanted to get some things off your chest, and that you were not trying to incite anything, however at this time perhaps it is best to lay low a bit until things settle down, and tact would have helped a lot there. Certainly while you didn't intend it, and it really wasn't really all that bad, in the current situation that really is a bit of gasoline.

Ya know, more of our members should post rather than lurk. Nothing wrong with lurking, I do it all the time myself, but GR's right. Hmm, what sort of things do you want to talk about? I'm up for... whatever.

OB1, in all honesty he really was not attempting to be a troll. I can see where you are coming from in your frustration with his comments and all. I mean, he barely posts anything right? Still, he is a member who's thoughts, though told at a time when they were clearly inflamatory, should be respected and so perhaps discretion is the better part of valor here as well as with ABF.

That SECOND Nick comment really was just trolling and I think Nick was aware of it at the time.

What I'm saying is things are starting to calm down now so let's not revert to what happened yesterday in like 2 seconds. What this suggests is that things are only calm on the surface right now though...

[Weltall]

Okay look.

This is just a message board, you know. If it's really important to any individual to make sure everyone knows they're right about something, I dunno what to say.

I'm trying to keep peace here. I don't want anyone leaving because of this, so stop insulting people because their post counts are low. We don't get many, and it's destructive behavior to tell them to get lost.

I've already said most of what I have to say about the whole topic. This recent disruption is obviously just a flashpoint of hostility that's been brewing for awhile. OB1, I really think you need to take a deep breath sometimes. Even though I get into some heated debates with ABF, even when I think he's got his head so far up his ass that his nose is tickling his prostate, and even though almost every debate we get into turns into something not much unlike what your arguments with him become, I don't resent him, or anyone else, the way you do with several people. It's a message board, plain and simple. There's no prize for having the last word, or receiving acknowledgement of being right (and honestly after this long, you should know better than to expect it). I hate to single you outm but you are at the center of this, even if it wasn't your intent. I think a good deal of these situations can be defused if you just swallow your pride. I don't want you to leave, or anyone else. Let's act like rational adults, recognize and understand our differences, and get along.

[OB1]

Ask yourself this: if this were "real life" would you say the same thing? Message board or not, these are real people with real opinions who can be real assholes. Now I know that hiding behind a computer monitor brings out the asshole in a person really well, but I make no distinction between cyber jerks and real world ones. It just so happens that I really don't know any jerks in real life. Not any personally, really.

As for Nick Burns, his only posts in the past few months have been provocations and flames over the past two days, which makes him a troll. ABF is not a troll because that's not all that he posts here. That is not his main goal.

[A Black Falcon]

OB1, you sure are good at ignoring constructive criticism... You can't hide behind "well only you (ABF) do this to me, in OTHER situations nothing's wrong, so it's all your fault" in a situation like this one. Hopefully you can realize that constructive criticism is just that... not just criticism, but things said that are meant to help...

[OB1]

Here let me give you some constructive criticism: pick up a damn dictionary and look up the term constructive criticism. I'll even help you!

Definition: criticism or advice that is useful and intended to help or improve something, often with an offer of possible solutions

Idiots who post for the sole purpose of trying to add more to flame wars are not trying to improve things or offer solutions. It's trolling, plain and simple.

[Dark Jaguar]

Weltall, well said. Well.... hahahahahahaha! I made a funny! THAT IS CLEVER BEYOND DA LIMIT'S END! ...sorry...

OB1, what Weltall means isn't that it's okay because it's a message board and thus it's not real. None of us think something like that, I believe. I believe he'd have the same opinion if this was only a picnic in real life where people started talking. Meaning, it is a normal social situation, nothing more. Further, Nick really was trying to be constructive. Now, his methods left something to be desired considering the situation, but he wasn't attempting to "troll", as it was not his intention to incite anything. Now, the only reason I say this is because he said that in his post, and I wish to trust him.

I have said all I can to maintain "the peace" in this "not war". The rest is up to the rest of the members here.

Now then, I shall eliminate negativity via PHYSICAL POWER! 100x Big Bang Kamehameha! *destroys universe*

[OB1]

Ugh, I am so sick of this place right now.

[A Black Falcon]

OB1, I am sure Weltall will be happy to hear what you think of him... :) (did you think I meant Nick? Of course not! I was talking about Weltall, primarially, as well as some of what others (DJ, EM, etc.) said.)

Idiots who post for the sole purpose of trying to add more to flame wars are not trying to improve things or offer solutions. It's trolling, plain and simple.

Read that definition of constructive criticism, OB1. This definitely falls under it.

I've already said most of what I have to say about the whole topic. This recent disruption is obviously just a flashpoint of hostility that's been brewing for awhile. OB1, I really think you need to take a deep breath sometimes. Even though I get into some heated debates with ABF, even when I think he's got his head so far up his ass that his nose is tickling his prostate, and even though almost every debate we get into turns into something not much unlike what your arguments with him become, I don't resent him, or anyone else, the way you do with several people. It's a message board, plain and simple. There's no prize for having the last word, or receiving acknowledgement of being right (and honestly after this long, you should know better than to expect it). I hate to single you outm but you are at the center of this, even if it wasn't your intent. I think a good deal of these situations can be defused if you just swallow your pride. I don't want you to leave, or anyone else. Let's act like rational adults, recognize and understand our differences, and get along.

As for others, DJ certainly seemed to me to be trying to be balanced and fair... me? I tried (you can't tell, but I deleted a bunch of paragraphs that got much nastier from several of those posts), but given how we've argued a lot more obviously it's tougher for me to say much without your past actions coloring my views. Which is why you should listen more to people who don't argue nearly as much with you like Weltall... if so many people see a problem, perhaps it's there?

As for Nick, I'm not sure if he was being constructive or asking for punishment. It's on the edge... it wasn't justified to react in the way OB1 did (post count in no way reflects intelligence. This is a fact. It merely shows how much you are here.), but reacting in a questioning way as opposed to taking everything he had seriously? That seems justified to me. As he said, the guy's never around and now he's complaining about one extra thread? That's kind of odd, unless you're writing it to incite the guy.

The bad spelling and grammar sure don't help either.

[OB1]

I was talking about Nick, you fool. Not Ryan.

[A Black Falcon]

I know, but I pretty clearly wasn't...

[OB1]

How the heck was that being clear? I was talking about Nick Burns, and since you quoted my exact words in your reply I obviously thought that you were actually responding to my post. Here's an example of what just happened, and what often happens when discussing anything with you:


Me: BBQ chips suck.

You: No they don't! You are very simply wrong!

Me: Come on, they totally suck. They don't even taste like bbq sauce!

You: I can't wait to tell my doritos that you think they suck.

Me: ... who the fuck was talking about doritos.

You: I was clearly talking about doritos!

Me: wtf :crap:

[A Black Falcon]

It was a post of yours directly below a post of Weltall's, you know...

It sure looked to me like

Ask yourself this: if this were "real life" would you say the same thing? Message board or not, these are real people with real opinions who can be real assholes. Now I know that hiding behind a computer monitor brings out the asshole in a person really well, but I make no distinction between cyber jerks and real world ones. It just so happens that I really don't know any jerks in real life. Not any personally, really.

As for Nick Burns, his only posts in the past few months have been provocations and flames over the past two days, which makes him a troll. ABF is not a troll because that's not all that he posts here. That is not his main goal.

was a reply to

Okay look.

This is just a message board, you know. If it's really important to any individual to make sure everyone knows they're right about something, I dunno what to say.

I'm trying to keep peace here. I don't want anyone leaving because of this, so stop insulting people because their post counts are low. We don't get many, and it's destructive behavior to tell them to get lost.

I've already said most of what I have to say about the whole topic. This recent disruption is obviously just a flashpoint of hostility that's been brewing for awhile. OB1, I really think you need to take a deep breath sometimes. Even though I get into some heated debates with ABF, even when I think he's got his head so far up his ass that his nose is tickling his prostate, and even though almost every debate we get into turns into something not much unlike what your arguments with him become, I don't resent him, or anyone else, the way you do with several people. It's a message board, plain and simple. There's no prize for having the last word, or receiving acknowledgement of being right (and honestly after this long, you should know better than to expect it). I hate to single you outm but you are at the center of this, even if it wasn't your intent. I think a good deal of these situations can be defused if you just swallow your pride. I don't want you to leave, or anyone else. Let's act like rational adults, recognize and understand our differences, and get along.

As opposed to Nick's deleted one-line post or the posts before that (DJ, GR, etc).

[OB1]

I even said "As for Nick Burns".

You are so damn weird.

[deanna]

You are so damn weird.

that was just too funny...I don't agree or anything, I just think that was too funny to be true :D

[A Black Falcon]

I even said "As for Nick Burns".

You are so damn weird.

Most of my reply was in response to the FIRST of those two paragraphs. Not the 'as for Nick Burns' one. My response to THAT paragraph is the part where I say I can see why you'd think he's a troll... but disagree with your tone and some of your words.

[OB1]

And you wonder why I call you so damned confusing.

[A Black Falcon]

I was replying to your post as I understood you to mean it...

[OB1]

[A Black Falcon]

Just answer this. Whose post was this part a reply to?

Ask yourself this: if this were "real life" would you say the same thing? Message board or not, these are real people with real opinions who can be real assholes. Now I know that hiding behind a computer monitor brings out the asshole in a person really well, but I make no distinction between cyber jerks and real world ones. It just so happens that I really don't know any jerks in real life. Not any personally, really.

[OB1]

Ryan. But nowhere there did I insult him.

[A Black Falcon]

My point was that your reply essentially denies that everything he says is valid: "OB1

I've already said most of what I have to say about the whole topic. This recent disruption is obviously just a flashpoint of hostility that's been brewing for awhile. OB1, I really think you need to take a deep breath sometimes. Even though I get into some heated debates with ABF, even when I think he's got his head so far up his ass that his nose is tickling his prostate, and even though almost every debate we get into turns into something not much unlike what your arguments with him become, I don't resent him, or anyone else, the way you do with several people. It's a message board, plain and simple. There's no prize for having the last word, or receiving acknowledgement of being right (and honestly after this long, you should know better than to expect it). I hate to single you outm but you are at the center of this, even if it wasn't your intent. I think a good deal of these situations can be defused if you just swallow your pride. I don't want you to leave, or anyone else. Let's act like rational adults, recognize and understand our differences, and get along.

"OB1 you need to take a deep breath sometimes... it's a message board, plain and simple... etc. And what is your reply?

Ask yourself this: if this were "real life" would you say the same thing? Message board or not, these are real people with real opinions who can be real assholes. Now I know that hiding behind a computer monitor brings out the asshole in a person really well, but I make no distinction between cyber jerks and real world ones. It just so happens that I really don't know any jerks in real life. Not any personally, really.

Essentially, 'They're jerks and deserve it.'

It's simply astonishing that you cannot see that every time you make yet another angry retort you prove how right all of your critics are about you.