22nd February 2005, 12:09 AM
Okay then, I am attempting to mediate this whole mess. GR... apparently... tries to do that all the time. Oh and GR, don't leave just because one member leaves. If a lot do, it may be something to consider, but really, you are one of the most valued people we have here. This whole time you've been here, can it really be the only one you've made friends with is OB1? I like you! Stick around!
Look, I really have no idea why everyone got so annoyed by that sticky thread except that people have been holding some major hostility towards OB1. Maybe some of it is deserved, but don't make a big deal out of this.
The only way I can properly mediate in this until Weltall returns is to actually read OB1's posts. To that end, I will now unban OB1... 2 months ago. That's right, I've actually had OB1 unblocked for a long while now. I got over whatever stick was up my arse about him and can now easily ignore what would normally incite me to idiotic fighting.
Now here's the thing. OB1 alone isn't the glue of this message board. There is no I in team.... but there is an M and an E... Anyway, no single member makes the board worth visiting. It's the talks between everyone. Now, I'll be the first to admit the message board is rather slow. Nonsense threads aside, decent threads only show up every few days. I don't complain about it though. I'm fine with a slow thread so long as it isn't dead. Decent topics do still show up on a regular basis. It's not fast, but it's fine. I don't feel the need to breathe life into our forum because the rate is fast enough for me. To that end I only blitz the forum with threads about nothing every week or so :D.
Anyway, allow me to expand a few things.
One, this all started because some people got upset about a silly image thread. OB1, as I feel fine addressing you at this point, I must say the whole thing was "cute"... Pointless, but harmless. No reason for everyone to get all upset. I think the act of sticking it may have been triggered by annoyance in OB1's general direction...
Here's the deal. A lot of hostility is out in the open, so let's just make it all clear. We ALL have our problems with OB1 (heck, the more prominent members here all have their share of frustrated peoples who would rather not get involved about it). The man has an ego that won't quit and never listens to other points of view. However, at the same time he does contribute to this forum with all manner of gaming news topics and often enough his own views on the articles which can be pretty dead on accurate. I understand he can come off a little... well rude... but in his more civil moods certainly OB1 is a keeper.
OB1 and GR had the right to make their own little thread about whatever topic they so wanted. Making it a sticky also isn't that big a deal. So what? It's the principle? What sort of defense is that? If it's not a big deal, it's not a big deal. Whatever principal you are afraid was violated, it's your invention! That is what is meant by the phrase "don't make a mountain out of a mole hill" and the idea of major morality being threatened by what in reality are pretty silly things is what leads to a LOT of suffering in the real world.
That being said, OB1, why go about deleting their posts? What purpose does it serve? Truly, I seem to recall you stating you would never actually delete a post you found out of place, just move them. Honestly at the time I was against even moving it around, but you did at least recognize that they have a right to their words. The reality is this is a message board. When one posts here, they are agreeing to forgo private conversation in favor of a public forum where all comments can be commented on by a completely uninvolved 3rd party. If one wants a private conversation, there is instant messaging. I am not inviting war here OB1. I am merely stating a fact. I know you have the technical power to delete posts, but you aren't placed above the rest of the almost all admins around here. I do believe they have a right to their opinions, however raged and incoherent as they might be. Keep in mind, for all their mouthing off, you were the first to delete posts. They were just stating things until that point. Further, there is one step that, while I know may be something that would hurt your pride, was an option that may have prevented some of this. Do not get me wrong, yes their complaints were stupid, but if you had decided to simply go ahead and unsticky the thread of your own accord, even with a simple comment that you are only doing this as a gesture of good will and you honestly had no obligation to, then it would have ended hostilities. Is this principle you seek really so important that you would risk friendships over it? Is it not more moral to know when to concede, despite what attack on your pride you may percieve? Is it really... that big a deal? This may sound like an afterschool special, but truly it really does take more strength to know when to simply make concessions than to be stubborn. It DOES take more strength to do that, take it from me. It is not cowardly to do such things, it shows character. This, above all else, is really the only thing I want you to see.
After the silly rage over the pics thread, and the subsequent deletions done due to a percieved attack of OB1's honor, then things REALLY got out of hand. That's when all those hostilities really took over. People have stated contradicting opinions to OB1 only to have him shoot them down long enough, I suppose. They wanted blood... or maybe just to yell at OB1... whatever. Fact of the matter is, if you don't know OB1's personality by now, or that is, how to deal with it, then you should learn. The best way to deal with him when his argumentative side emerges is to simply drop it until his cooler side comes back. Most of you did a much better job of that than I did, but I wonder how well you dropped it after all, like on the inside. No matter, the point is we all know what OB1 can be like at times and accept it. This is no different really. Yes, what he did was uncalled for in this case, but maybe it was best to just take it in stride and start up some other TC topic? OB1, while reacting to it poorly, was attacked over a rather trivial thing to start with and had reason to be upset (not reason to go further, but yes reason to be upset). No need to drag it out.
After this, Edenmaster apparently took it upon himself to delete the thread outright. This was a bad move. I understand that his deleting of posts was wrong, but really doing it right back is not good. "Getting even" is such a moronic mentallity... Surely our society has evolved past that at least? Perhaps the best way would have been to leave it alone? Does it matter if he actually sees the point you are making doing that? Isn't it better to do peaceful acts simply because it is the right thing to do, not because of the results?
Anyways, after this, the result was inevitable. OB1 is now VERY angry. I would imagine so. I mean, remember how angry you were when your posts were deleted unjustly. The same thing happened to him, but his personality is such that this is seen as an insult, an attack on who he is. Discrimination of sorts I believe. He didn't even know who did it, which is something he hates more than anything. He does not like the idea of someone doing something to him without coming forward. EM came forard now of course, but at the time. Anyway, now we have serious trouble.
A valued member is now threatening to leave. He is provoking people to do stuff to him because he wants an excuse. Don't do anything to him. We want him to stay. His other threat, to randomly delete accounts, really IS a massive and unjust abuse of admin priviliages. However, who cares? Don't worry, I've backed up the member list. Any damage done I can repair. Sure it's a "massive assault against us" and "what of the principle?" but yeesh, why make a big deal when you don't actually have to? I for one am willing to put all this stupidity behind us.
OB1, you have your faults, faults which, more than others, are very abbrasive to people, but you have plenty of good qualities. Stick around! A lot of what I said really applies to everyone here, including you. Never get into a fight when you don't have to. Feeling a need for justice when in reality there is no permanent damage, and only your pride is at stake, is a very terrible thing.
To everyone, get over it! Who cares who was "right"? I mean, really? Is any of this enough to threaten this lovely city over? Do we really want Weltall to show up to find he's been paying for this site for a few weeks when everyone has left? Years from now, will the little attacks on our pride really even be remembered? Really think about this. To be able to just let things slide, to ignore any percieved insults and see the good things. To be able to see your own faults for what they are and laugh off or outright ignore what actually are wrongnesses done to you, to be able to put that better than how I did, really, THAT is character. Don't try defending your honor over every little thing. That's the way of the bully and the coward. Have the self confidence to not even care about such things. Should you walk by someone and attempt to talk to them and they ignore you, don't say "Oh I guess you don't SEE me huh?" and shoot them . Rather, just say "oh well" and get on with your life. The former is the mindset that is turning ghetto places into unlivable war zones between gangs over issues that are completely pointless, over honor that was never really threatened to begin with.
Don't turn this place into a ghetto. I love this place. "Defending your honor" is a concept that ALWAYS leads to tragedy! Such ideals make mountains from mole hills, not just in their minds, but in reality. An accidently spill of a drink should not result in a bar room brawl. A percieved insult to your family should not result in a samurai battle. These things are not romantic, they are foolish. No good results, just suffering.
So in other words, just drop it okay? Hey, let's all find some nice gaming news and post a thread about what we find. That's the challenge for the day. It'll clear our heads!
Look, I really have no idea why everyone got so annoyed by that sticky thread except that people have been holding some major hostility towards OB1. Maybe some of it is deserved, but don't make a big deal out of this.
The only way I can properly mediate in this until Weltall returns is to actually read OB1's posts. To that end, I will now unban OB1... 2 months ago. That's right, I've actually had OB1 unblocked for a long while now. I got over whatever stick was up my arse about him and can now easily ignore what would normally incite me to idiotic fighting.
Now here's the thing. OB1 alone isn't the glue of this message board. There is no I in team.... but there is an M and an E... Anyway, no single member makes the board worth visiting. It's the talks between everyone. Now, I'll be the first to admit the message board is rather slow. Nonsense threads aside, decent threads only show up every few days. I don't complain about it though. I'm fine with a slow thread so long as it isn't dead. Decent topics do still show up on a regular basis. It's not fast, but it's fine. I don't feel the need to breathe life into our forum because the rate is fast enough for me. To that end I only blitz the forum with threads about nothing every week or so :D.
Anyway, allow me to expand a few things.
One, this all started because some people got upset about a silly image thread. OB1, as I feel fine addressing you at this point, I must say the whole thing was "cute"... Pointless, but harmless. No reason for everyone to get all upset. I think the act of sticking it may have been triggered by annoyance in OB1's general direction...
Here's the deal. A lot of hostility is out in the open, so let's just make it all clear. We ALL have our problems with OB1 (heck, the more prominent members here all have their share of frustrated peoples who would rather not get involved about it). The man has an ego that won't quit and never listens to other points of view. However, at the same time he does contribute to this forum with all manner of gaming news topics and often enough his own views on the articles which can be pretty dead on accurate. I understand he can come off a little... well rude... but in his more civil moods certainly OB1 is a keeper.
OB1 and GR had the right to make their own little thread about whatever topic they so wanted. Making it a sticky also isn't that big a deal. So what? It's the principle? What sort of defense is that? If it's not a big deal, it's not a big deal. Whatever principal you are afraid was violated, it's your invention! That is what is meant by the phrase "don't make a mountain out of a mole hill" and the idea of major morality being threatened by what in reality are pretty silly things is what leads to a LOT of suffering in the real world.
That being said, OB1, why go about deleting their posts? What purpose does it serve? Truly, I seem to recall you stating you would never actually delete a post you found out of place, just move them. Honestly at the time I was against even moving it around, but you did at least recognize that they have a right to their words. The reality is this is a message board. When one posts here, they are agreeing to forgo private conversation in favor of a public forum where all comments can be commented on by a completely uninvolved 3rd party. If one wants a private conversation, there is instant messaging. I am not inviting war here OB1. I am merely stating a fact. I know you have the technical power to delete posts, but you aren't placed above the rest of the almost all admins around here. I do believe they have a right to their opinions, however raged and incoherent as they might be. Keep in mind, for all their mouthing off, you were the first to delete posts. They were just stating things until that point. Further, there is one step that, while I know may be something that would hurt your pride, was an option that may have prevented some of this. Do not get me wrong, yes their complaints were stupid, but if you had decided to simply go ahead and unsticky the thread of your own accord, even with a simple comment that you are only doing this as a gesture of good will and you honestly had no obligation to, then it would have ended hostilities. Is this principle you seek really so important that you would risk friendships over it? Is it not more moral to know when to concede, despite what attack on your pride you may percieve? Is it really... that big a deal? This may sound like an afterschool special, but truly it really does take more strength to know when to simply make concessions than to be stubborn. It DOES take more strength to do that, take it from me. It is not cowardly to do such things, it shows character. This, above all else, is really the only thing I want you to see.
After the silly rage over the pics thread, and the subsequent deletions done due to a percieved attack of OB1's honor, then things REALLY got out of hand. That's when all those hostilities really took over. People have stated contradicting opinions to OB1 only to have him shoot them down long enough, I suppose. They wanted blood... or maybe just to yell at OB1... whatever. Fact of the matter is, if you don't know OB1's personality by now, or that is, how to deal with it, then you should learn. The best way to deal with him when his argumentative side emerges is to simply drop it until his cooler side comes back. Most of you did a much better job of that than I did, but I wonder how well you dropped it after all, like on the inside. No matter, the point is we all know what OB1 can be like at times and accept it. This is no different really. Yes, what he did was uncalled for in this case, but maybe it was best to just take it in stride and start up some other TC topic? OB1, while reacting to it poorly, was attacked over a rather trivial thing to start with and had reason to be upset (not reason to go further, but yes reason to be upset). No need to drag it out.
After this, Edenmaster apparently took it upon himself to delete the thread outright. This was a bad move. I understand that his deleting of posts was wrong, but really doing it right back is not good. "Getting even" is such a moronic mentallity... Surely our society has evolved past that at least? Perhaps the best way would have been to leave it alone? Does it matter if he actually sees the point you are making doing that? Isn't it better to do peaceful acts simply because it is the right thing to do, not because of the results?
Anyways, after this, the result was inevitable. OB1 is now VERY angry. I would imagine so. I mean, remember how angry you were when your posts were deleted unjustly. The same thing happened to him, but his personality is such that this is seen as an insult, an attack on who he is. Discrimination of sorts I believe. He didn't even know who did it, which is something he hates more than anything. He does not like the idea of someone doing something to him without coming forward. EM came forard now of course, but at the time. Anyway, now we have serious trouble.
A valued member is now threatening to leave. He is provoking people to do stuff to him because he wants an excuse. Don't do anything to him. We want him to stay. His other threat, to randomly delete accounts, really IS a massive and unjust abuse of admin priviliages. However, who cares? Don't worry, I've backed up the member list. Any damage done I can repair. Sure it's a "massive assault against us" and "what of the principle?" but yeesh, why make a big deal when you don't actually have to? I for one am willing to put all this stupidity behind us.
OB1, you have your faults, faults which, more than others, are very abbrasive to people, but you have plenty of good qualities. Stick around! A lot of what I said really applies to everyone here, including you. Never get into a fight when you don't have to. Feeling a need for justice when in reality there is no permanent damage, and only your pride is at stake, is a very terrible thing.
To everyone, get over it! Who cares who was "right"? I mean, really? Is any of this enough to threaten this lovely city over? Do we really want Weltall to show up to find he's been paying for this site for a few weeks when everyone has left? Years from now, will the little attacks on our pride really even be remembered? Really think about this. To be able to just let things slide, to ignore any percieved insults and see the good things. To be able to see your own faults for what they are and laugh off or outright ignore what actually are wrongnesses done to you, to be able to put that better than how I did, really, THAT is character. Don't try defending your honor over every little thing. That's the way of the bully and the coward. Have the self confidence to not even care about such things. Should you walk by someone and attempt to talk to them and they ignore you, don't say "Oh I guess you don't SEE me huh?" and shoot them . Rather, just say "oh well" and get on with your life. The former is the mindset that is turning ghetto places into unlivable war zones between gangs over issues that are completely pointless, over honor that was never really threatened to begin with.
Don't turn this place into a ghetto. I love this place. "Defending your honor" is a concept that ALWAYS leads to tragedy! Such ideals make mountains from mole hills, not just in their minds, but in reality. An accidently spill of a drink should not result in a bar room brawl. A percieved insult to your family should not result in a samurai battle. These things are not romantic, they are foolish. No good results, just suffering.
So in other words, just drop it okay? Hey, let's all find some nice gaming news and post a thread about what we find. That's the challenge for the day. It'll clear our heads!
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
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