11th August 2011, 8:27 PM
It's run its course, time to kill it off for good.
Sometimes you get the scorpion.
11th August 2011, 8:27 PM
It's run its course, time to kill it off for good.
Sometimes you get the scorpion.
11th August 2011, 9:12 PM
I'm not really an all or nothing person these days. Capitalism is still the best tool for quickly moving money from investor to investee. It's also the best tool for figuring out what people want. Maybe not what actually works, as the vast "alternative medicine" market can attest, but still, businesses need at least some level of capitalism to grow well. I joke about your job a lot, but I accept that.
The flip side is, corporations are run by humans with all their flaws. Unlike the Randian super men would think, people don't have all possible information and don't always care about long term "self interest". That means that someone can be frauded out of money, and the savvy fraud can still serve their best interests in doing so as long as they don't get caught. It also means people just plain make mistakes, and those mistakes can be compounded by a billion things. Frankly, simple reality means that unlike randian philosophy would say, people don't and can't start on an even playing field. Someone born into poverty, save for sheer luck or a lot of help from others, will stay that way. No amount of "gumption" will fix that. Going "all communist" is obviously the wrong way, but complete let it alone capitalism is just as easily corrupted. For now, capitalism with oversight is simply the only way that works well enough for everyone. Debate how much oversight, but it's downright naive to assume that "none" is best for everyone. I don't think getting rid of capitalism will solve anything until money itself becomes obsolete. That'll only happen if we ever get technology so advanced that we go post-scarcity in everything but land and one-of-a-kind originals (or at least in the things needed for living a comfortable life).
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
12th August 2011, 10:35 AM
Regulated capitalism is the best system humanity has which actually works in real life. It doesn't always work, but it always works better.
A Tea Partier will say ALL CAPITALISM, NO GOVERNMENT. ABF would want precisely the opposite, or close to it. I say, it works best when each moderates the other, and works worst when they work hand-in-hand, or one completely dominates the other.
YOU CANNOT HIDE FOREVER
WE STAND AT THE DOOR
12th August 2011, 2:24 PM
I'm not sure if ABF wants exactly the opposite, but yes, you have the short version of my opinion on the matter.
To put it graphically: <img src="http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/Ryu45/BatmanRunningWithKey.gif">
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
12th August 2011, 2:37 PM
I don't want exactly the opposite, government doesn't do everything best. See: Communism. What's best is a mix of both, with a strong government but a private sector as well (with strong oversight).
12th August 2011, 2:46 PM
Dark Jaguar Wrote:I'm not sure if ABF wants exactly the opposite, but yes, you have the short version of my opinion on the matter.HAHAHA! Thats fucking awesome! I saw that image and I about busted a gut I laughed so hard.
14th August 2011, 5:37 AM
Dark Jaguar Wrote:I'm not really an all or nothing person these days. Capitalism is still the best tool for quickly moving money from investor to investee. It's also the best tool for figuring out what people want. Maybe not what actually works, as the vast "alternative medicine" market can attest, but still, businesses need at least some level of capitalism to grow well. I joke about your job a lot, but I accept that. Here is a thought, Corporations should be forcibly democratized and by that I mean workers Coop, If we did that the workforce would have big incentive to be more productive and actually have a reason to care about the welfare of the busineses they work for, Not to mention the employees would become the major shareholders and thus the executive branch would be elected to their positions by the little guys in their cubicles and factory floors. of course that won't happen since "the fat cat" business magnates would oppose any such takeover just like they already do towards unions & socialists. Doing this would radically change western society for the better & the hole world for that matter, Countering the ruinous oligarchical plutocracy that is spoiling our system, it would also give oppressed workers in china and the third world a taste of the democratic process that would most certainly act as fertilizer for political reform & the advancement of human rights abroad. <iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pNU1g2Bm0aQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> We need to put an end to this
14th August 2011, 6:54 AM
alien space marine Wrote:Here is a thought, Corporations should be forcibly democratized and by that I mean workers Coop, If we did that the workforce would have big incentive to be more productive and actually have a reason to care about the welfare of the busineses they work for, Not to mention the employees would become the major shareholders and thus the executive branch would be elected to their positions by the little guys in their cubicles and factory floors. of course that won't happen since "the fat cat" business magnates would oppose any such takeover just like they already do towards unions & socialists.Wow! For such a old film, it had really incredible production values.. I call that short film "a day at walmart"
14th August 2011, 8:44 AM
That movie would be Metropolis, released in 1927. And, yes, it did cost a tidy sum to film.
<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7j8Ba9rWhUg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Sometimes you get the scorpion.
14th August 2011, 6:19 PM
Yeah, Metropolis is one of the greatest silent movies, and still an all-time sci fi classic... incredibly influential in the genre too. It's worth watching for sure...
Oh, and as for ASM's idea... who knows, could work. Probably wouldn't be worse than the current system at least! :)
14th August 2011, 11:58 PM
And so we get to the point where just about every die hard conservative here, myself included has, over the years, changed their mindset to something more progressive.
All the same, Obama continues to cater to the right whenever possible, convinced that's the only way to get anything done, instead simply shifting "the center" further right each time. Forcible "democratizing" of corporations is something that goes too far. Individual companies should be allowed to determine their own fates, to an extent. Considering how much of a negative influence the stock market has on the decisions companies make, I doubt a national vote would aid things much. Regulations should be put in place, far better than what we have now, and the various legal protections corporations have obtained over the years should be rescinded. That's a start. I'll say this. If a company begs for billions of dollars in bailout money, THEN it should be democratized. They can consider it a business transaction, a "buyout" of a failing company by the government.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
15th August 2011, 1:12 AM
Democratizing sounds good in theory but it sounds as if it would be a terror to investors, who will still want business admin graduates in those top roles rather than whatever charismatic figurehead is elected by the worker pool. Without investor confidence, businesses struggling for capital are as good as doomed.
YOU CANNOT HIDE FOREVER
WE STAND AT THE DOOR
15th August 2011, 6:09 AM
If there's one thing that politics should teach us is that the "average people" can't tell Mother Teresa from Mussolini. I don't know if I'd want them in charge of picking who runs multi-billion dollar corporations.
Sometimes you get the scorpion.
15th August 2011, 11:26 AM
(This post was last modified: 15th August 2011, 11:42 AM by alien space marine.)
Great Rumbler Wrote:If there's one thing that politics should teach us is that the "average people" can't tell Mother Teresa from Mussolini. I don't know if I'd want them in charge of picking who runs multi-billion dollar corporations. GR , Nobody can run for office without hordes of money so the reason emperor Palpatine keeps getting elected is because only the rich or morally flexible whores can afford to fund a federal election campaign, Musolini didnt get himself & his party into power without help from his good friends on wallstreet like JP Morgan & their counterparts in London & Milan. * Since Marxism was scene as a graver threat to their interests at the time* In the U.S you only have two choices at the ballot box Dumb & Dumber, In Canada we have 3 and it still sucks! We need more education & also more honest Journalism that is not under the yoke 4 of corporations. P.S Metropolis is an magnificent example of pre-war German cinema, That once was a major rival to Hollywood during the silent film era, The silent films were unique in how they told stories in a almost purely visual medium that heavily centered around body language & gestural expressions when it came to the style of acting . In metropolis case the soundstracks are big part of the film experience unfortunately the original tracks are lost but new ones have been made by fans over the years including Freddie Mercury & Queen who were hired in the making of the new re-release soundtrack for the 1980's special anniversary edition of metropolis.
15th August 2011, 11:45 AM
I am in favor of both parties in any election to be subject to campaign spending limits, so that every candidate is on even financial ground (assuming he can drum up funds at all).
And, that maximum limit should be set quite low. That way, the process is more open to the segment of the population not blessed with large amounts of disposable wealth. Set a carefully-monitored oversight committee to keep close tabs on all expenses, and allow for few, if any, exemptions. I am also in favor of strict congressional term limits, and controls on how much politicians can spend on their office. The idea of career politicians should be alien to a modern democracy. It's not fucking about you. It's about us.
YOU CANNOT HIDE FOREVER
WE STAND AT THE DOOR
15th August 2011, 12:02 PM
Weltall Wrote:Democratizing sounds good in theory but it sounds as if it would be a terror to investors, who will still want business admin graduates in those top roles rather than whatever charismatic figurehead is elected by the worker pool. Without investor confidence, businesses struggling for capital are as good as doomed. Blockbusters major shareholders kept hiring daft morons to run that company, The last two chimps they put in charge of things were so fucking daft that they thought it was actually a good a idea to revive their business in the face of declining movie rental sales by slashing away their library of older films and replacing them with a barns & nobles style book-section LOL!
15th August 2011, 12:17 PM
(This post was last modified: 15th August 2011, 1:33 PM by alien space marine.)
Weltall Wrote:I am in favor of both parties in any election to be subject to campaign spending limits, so that every candidate is on even financial ground (assuming he can drum up funds at all). Also you need to make it easier for 3rd parties & independents to have a chance at actually getting heard, their marginalized and they never get opportunity to be at at-least one live debate alongside the Dems & Reps.
16th August 2011, 5:25 PM
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xvI8JYpO3PY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
This is the first thing that popped in my head when I saw this Do you like Fishdicks Mr President?
16th August 2011, 7:42 PM
Puns like that only work in spoken word ASM.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
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