Dark Jaguar Wrote:I'm not sure if ABF wants exactly the opposite, but yes, you have the short version of my opinion on the matter.

To put it graphically:

Dark Jaguar Wrote:I'm not really an all or nothing person these days. Capitalism is still the best tool for quickly moving money from investor to investee. It's also the best tool for figuring out what people want. Maybe not what actually works, as the vast "alternative medicine" market can attest, but still, businesses need at least some level of capitalism to grow well. I joke about your job a lot, but I accept that.

The flip side is, corporations are run by humans with all their flaws. Unlike the Randian super men would think, people don't have all possible information and don't always care about long term "self interest". That means that someone can be frauded out of money, and the savvy fraud can still serve their best interests in doing so as long as they don't get caught. It also means people just plain make mistakes, and those mistakes can be compounded by a billion things. Frankly, simple reality means that unlike randian philosophy would say, people don't and can't start on an even playing field. Someone born into poverty, save for sheer luck or a lot of help from others, will stay that way. No amount of "gumption" will fix that.

Going "all communist" is obviously the wrong way, but complete let it alone capitalism is just as easily corrupted. For now, capitalism with oversight is simply the only way that works well enough for everyone. Debate how much oversight, but it's downright naive to assume that "none" is best for everyone.

I don't think getting rid of capitalism will solve anything until money itself becomes obsolete. That'll only happen if we ever get technology so advanced that we go post-scarcity in everything but land and one-of-a-kind originals (or at least in the things needed for living a comfortable life).

alien space marine Wrote:Here is a thought, Corporations should be forcibly democratized and by that I mean workers Coop, If we did that the workforce would have big incentive to be more productive and actually have a reason to care about the welfare of the busineses they work for, Not to mention the employees would become the major shareholders and thus the executive branch would be elected to their positions by the little guys in their cubicles and factory floors. of course that won't happen since "the fat cat" business magnates would oppose any such takeover just like they already do towards unions & socialists.

Doing this would radically change western society for the better & the hole world for that matter, Countering the ruinous oligarchical plutocracy that is spoiling our system, it would also give oppressed workers in china and the third world a taste of the democratic process that would most certainly act as fertilizer for political reform & the advancement of human rights abroad.

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We need to put an end to this

Great Rumbler Wrote:If there's one thing that politics should teach us is that the "average people" can't tell Mother Teresa from Mussolini. I don't know if I'd want them in charge of picking who runs multi-billion dollar corporations.

Weltall Wrote:Democratizing sounds good in theory but it sounds as if it would be a terror to investors, who will still want business admin graduates in those top roles rather than whatever charismatic figurehead is elected by the worker pool. Without investor confidence, businesses struggling for capital are as good as doomed.

Weltall Wrote:I am in favor of both parties in any election to be subject to campaign spending limits, so that every candidate is on even financial ground (assuming he can drum up funds at all).

And, that maximum limit should be set quite low. That way, the process is more open to the segment of the population not blessed with large amounts of disposable wealth. Set a carefully-monitored oversight committee to keep close tabs on all expenses, and allow for few, if any, exemptions.

I am also in favor of strict congressional term limits, and controls on how much politicians can spend on their office. The idea of career politicians should be alien to a modern democracy. It's not fucking about you. It's about us.