Tendo City

I did experiment, but it was all in the gameplay. Don't pin this on me :D, it's the developer's fault.

i saw the hint thingy...and guessed at what it was...but left it on, just because i didn't mind it telling me where to go next. it's not like it drew out the path of how to get there. and if i'd had no direction at all and was just wandering around aimlessly, the constant enemy respawning would have driven me insane.

You know, thing is, I DO experiment with the options menus more often than most. I also read the instruction manuels more so than most. I usually am one to find solutions to other's complaints, like finding the option that switches the beam and visor controls, for that one guy who complained about what controlled what a while back in some thread. However, this hint system thing just escaped me. Even if I DID shut it off, I would have just said "hey, it's sure been a while since the ship sent in an area scan", assuming I shut it off to see whether or not it did control the instructions for how to use items. I would have thought that mainly because of how randomly the hints were placed anyway, as opposed to my being as dense as the adventurous young kid style of main character in an RPG. Sometimes I'd get two area locations sent one after another, while other times I'd have to go for quite some time on my own before one is sent in (not that it really made much of a difference to me). However, to be honest, a lot of those hints were telling me to go places I already was heading towards anyway.

I bet the reason why they chose to leave the hint option on as default is the same reason why all console FPS's have auto-aim turned on by default: because less experienced players will need all of the help they can get ,and more experienced players will probably choose to turn off any sort of assistance. But you're right, the desciption was pretty ambiguous.

It didn't even have a description :D. I guess they figured that calling something "hint mode" would be clear enough to even the biggest dullard. They didn't count on meeting ME though!

Oh well, it's a built in part of the game anyway, so it's not like I cheated or did anything cheap or anything. It was put there by them, not I, so it's certainly accurate to judge the game based on it's being on.

I wouldn't want to turn hint mode off... I'd never find anything! I don't really find it fun wandering around with no clue what to do for very long... its probably part of why I often end up using FAQ's for games when I get stuck for a while... its not fun not knowing what to do next. If it makes the games easier, oh well. They're more fun overall and its not cheating...

Right, as I said before there is a story as long as you scan everything.

When you guys were fighting that big rock boss (starts with a "T" I think, I forget the name but it's the first boss fight after you get the thermal visor, and it's surrounded by a bunch of spiderball zips, and you don't have the spider ball etc. etc) how many energy tanks did you have? I have five, but it's been awhile since I've gotten another one. I feel like I've missed one...

I forgot. I didn't have too many.

Haha, my god I sucked at this game when I first got it.

Anyways I'm all the way to the actual Metroid Prime now, and he's hard! The bastard keeps on changing colours on me, I hate switching weapons. Oh man. So I gotta know- what's the easiest way to beat this p.o.s.?

I don't know. I still haven't beaten it yet. Bleh.

*extreme thread bump*

I didn't want to make a new thread.

Sorry.

... I tried a couple times more. I still can't beat that stupid ice monster boss at the end of the Phazon Drifts... he is impossible! Every time he rolls into a ball and rolls around he hits me and I ineviably have my life drain away... how in the world do you not get hit?

Oh, and on the subject of Metroid, OB1 and I are arguing about its story... and if it's a good one or not. I think it is. :) He, obviously, disagrees... it has a bad story. But that doesn't matter because they weren't trying to tell a good story anyway...

http://www.tcforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2152

Quote:... I tried a couple times more. I still can't beat that stupid ice monster boss at the end of the Phazon Drifts... he is impossible! Every time he rolls into a ball and rolls around he hits me and I ineviably have my life drain away... how in the world do you not get hit?

You still haven't beat that guy?! Really, he's not that hard. Running backwards and rolling into a ball to get away from him are the only ways to not get hit and even doing that you'll get hit a few times, just not as much. I still can't believe you haven't beat that guy...

He's too hard and I haven't played it much since deciding I was stuck. :)

Hahahaha, there's no "easy" way to kill Metroid Prime! The only way is to die, die, die, and die again.

Man, i should start playing Metroid again....

Quote:He's too hard

No he isn't! I don't think I died once in the two times I fought against him [started a new game after being beaten several times by The Prime]. You just have to keep moving and when he rolls into a ball you do the same and roll away from him or you can run backwards which works sometimes.

A Black Falcon Wrote:... I tried a couple times more. I still can't beat that stupid ice monster boss at the end of the Phazon Drifts... he is impossible! Every time he rolls into a ball and rolls around he hits me and I ineviably have my life drain away... how in the world do you not get hit?

Oh, and on the subject of Metroid, OB1 and I are arguing about its story... and if it's a good one or not. I think it is. :) He, obviously, disagrees... it has a bad story. But that doesn't matter because they weren't trying to tell a good story anyway...

http://www.tcforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2152

You're an idiot, ABF. I never said that.

Quote:No he isn't! I don't think I died once in the two times I fought against him [started a new game after being beaten several times by The Prime]. You just have to keep moving and when he rolls into a ball you do the same and roll away from him or you can run backwards which works sometimes.

I got past his first form (or something) once... half health maybe? Then the scan visor gets useless most of the time and it gets even harder... I've died a half dozen times minimum.

Quote:You're an idiot, ABF. I never said that.

Pretty close, I think.

What you think and what actually is are two very, very different things.

You are no better.

Quote:I've died a half dozen times minimum.

That's sad, ABF. REALLY sad.

ABF is as good at playing Metroid as kittens are at defending themselves against packs of hungry wolves. The guy just plain sucks at those games.

Quote:You are no better.

Oh... oh I applaud you for your incredibly witty retort! Bravo!

Quote:Oh... oh I applaud you for your incredibly witty retort! Bravo!

It's true, so it doesn't need to be brilliantly written. :)

Quote:ABF is as good at playing Metroid as kittens are at defending themselves against packs of hungry wolves. The guy just plain sucks at those games.

FPSes are hard... not my best genre, I'll certainly admit.

Perfect Dark... last I looked, I'd gotten to the final mission on Secret Agent. Beat all the other missions on the first two difficulties, but not the last one. Oh well. I also never finished the challenge missions. Got pretty far I think but some are quite hard...

Metroid doesn't play like a FPS. It controls more like OoT than Doom.

I'd say it's more Doom than OoT, because of the first-person viewpoint and control scheme at all, but yeah, it's not really a FPS... but still, it's probably closer to that genre (controls-wise) than any other. Though First-person action-adventure might be a better label. :)

Lots of people criticized Nintendo for calling it a FPA [First-Person Adventure], but that's what it is.

If ABF ever reaches Metroid Prime he's going to piss his pink panties

I beat most of the bosses fairly easily and The Prime STILL destroys me!!

A Black Falcon Wrote:I'd say it's more Doom than OoT, because of the first-person viewpoint and control scheme at all, but yeah, it's not really a FPS... but still, it's probably closer to that genre (controls-wise) than any other. Though First-person action-adventure might be a better label. :)

MP plays nothing like Doom. It plays almost exactly like OoT does. Let's break down the controls, shall we?


Movement: Run and turn with the analog stick, no strafing or looking around unless you stop. Plays like... OoT! Whaddya know!

Combat: Lock on to enemy, strafe and jump around him while attacking. Plays like... gee wiz, OoT again!

Seriously, if you slapped Link into MP you'd have no trouble controlling him like you do in OoT and WW. With Doom controls on the other hand... forget about it.

Sure, the analog stick moves you. But there is no sidestepping in Zelda. No looking around in the fashion of the L and R buttons. Those are FPS controls. Yes, some third-person games have them as well, but Zelda isn't one of those...

As for combat, it's first-person. That is a very different experience from third-person Zelda combat. It doesn't feel much like fighting in Zelda, you know... it feels a lot like fighting in a FPS. :)

OB1 Wrote:Movement: Run and turn with the analog stick, no strafing or looking around unless you stop. Plays like... OoT! Whaddya know!

DOOM: Move and turn with arrow keys. Strafe with Alt key. Look around by turning (since you can't really look up or down).

OOT: Move and turn with analog. Strafe with Z. Of course, you can't back up in OOT without being in strafe mode...

Quote:Combat: Lock on to enemy, strafe and jump around him while attacking. Plays like... gee wiz, OoT again!

And not Doom, but several other more advanced FPSs undoubtedly have this ability. Doom 3 will almost certainly have it. Circle-strafing is hardly something impossible in a Doom-like game. It just wasn't there way back when.

Quote:Seriously, if you slapped Link into MP you'd have no trouble controlling him like you do in OoT and WW. With Doom controls on the other hand... forget about it.

Honestly, the basic control scheme for Doom and OOT is so identical it makes this whole argument... both sides of it... stupid.

Quote:Sure, the analog stick moves you. But there is no sidestepping in Zelda. No looking around in the fashion of the L and R buttons. Those are FPS controls. Yes, some third-person games have them as well, but Zelda isn't one of those...

The only time you sidestep in Prime is when you lock onto something or hold a button, just like OoT. And to look around in Prime you have to stop and hold a button, just like in OoT. Those are OoT controls.

Quote:As for combat, it's first-person. That is a very different experience from third-person Zelda combat. It doesn't feel much like fighting in Zelda, you know... it feels a lot like fighting in a FPS.

Yeah because there are so many FPS's out there where you lock onto enemies and the only way to strafe around them is by locking on. No way... there are no FPS's like that. But that's basically how OoT's combat works.

Quote:DOOM: Move and turn with arrow keys. Strafe with Alt key. Look around by turning (since you can't really look up or down).

OOT: Move and turn with analog. Strafe with Z. Of course, you can't back up in OOT without being in strafe mode...

Traditional FPS controls are move and strafe with WASD, turn and aim with mouse. That's not how Prime works. In Prime you can only circle strafe when you're locked on to an enemy, just like OoT. And you cannot move forward while strafing when you're not in lock-on mode. SAME WAY WITH OOT.

Quote:And not Doom, but several other more advanced FPSs undoubtedly have this ability. Doom 3 will almost certainly have it. Circle-strafing is hardly something impossible in a Doom-like game. It just wasn't there way back when.

Uh, you don't have to lock onto enemies in Doom or any other FPS in order to circle strafe like you do in Metroid Prime and OoT.

Quote:Honestly, the basic control scheme for Doom and OOT is so identical it makes this whole argument... both sides of it... stupid.

It's obvious by your posts that you either never played any of these games or are just have an atrocious memory. As I've clearly explained with actual facts that you can check for yourself, Metroid Prime plays more like OoT than it does like any FPS.

Quote:Traditional FPS controls are move and strafe with WASD, turn and aim with mouse. That's not how Prime works. In Prime you can only circle strafe when you're locked on to an enemy, just like OoT. And you cannot move forward while strafing when you're not in lock-on mode. SAME WAY WITH OOT.

You have a point with this. But a normal FPS and Zelda just FEEL very, very different. A big part is, I'm sure, the perspective... games play different from third person (than first) even when the controls are the same. Just play any of the Jedi Knight games to get THAT proven. Even though they have identical controls, first and third person seem pretty different. Prime has a first-person viewpoint so in many ways it feels more like a FPS despite the fact that like Zelda you have to lock on to strafe and shoot aiming at a target... (PC FPSes generally of course do not have lockon or aiming like that)

Ya know, when I really analyze games like Banjo, they seem like Zelda with jumping in an analytical sense. I can totally see them as very the same when analyzing them mentally, but to play them, they FEEL totally different, meaning there's something more to it...

Quote:You have a point with this. But a normal FPS and Zelda just FEEL very, very different. A big part is, I'm sure, the perspective... games play different from third person (than first) even when the controls are the same. Just play any of the Jedi Knight games to get THAT proven. Even though they have identical controls, first and third person seem pretty different. Prime has a first-person viewpoint so in many ways it feels more like a FPS despite the fact that like Zelda you have to lock on to strafe and shoot aiming at a target... (PC FPSes generally of course do not have lockon or aiming like that)

Jedi Knight in FP or TP plays the exact same way, it's your mind telling you that they're different. The controls are identical, the gameplay is not changed. You just have a better view from TP. Prime's controls are absolutely nothing like a regular FPS, which is why so many stupid reviewers whined about the controls. It plays like Zelda, complete with the same damn targeting/strafing system. You can't circle strafe and aim all around in MP like you can in Quake, you only use one stick for movement, etc.

That's what I was talking about... of course the controls are the same, but it's quite different in your mind (and in your arm -- range aiming is a lot harder in third person...). Similar for Prime... but they ARE a little like a FPS. You have a gun, after all. You don't have a gun in Zelda. That is a big difference.

I managed to beat the Phendrana Drifts Ice Monster after a couple tries. I never beat the whole game though, I never even made it to the final boss. Why? I guess I just lost interest. I probably will eventually, I've got a bad habit of not finishing games. I didn't get around to finishing Wind Waker until about a couple months ago, and I bought it at launch, and I didn't beat Kingdom Hearts until last week, and I bought that around middle of 2002 :D.

A Black Falcon Wrote:That's what I was talking about... of course the controls are the same, but it's quite different in your mind (and in your arm -- range aiming is a lot harder in third person...). Similar for Prime... but they ARE a little like a FPS. You have a gun, after all. You don't have a gun in Zelda. That is a big difference.

That's retarded. It controls nothing like a FPS, the only similarity is the perspective. It doesn't matter how strangely your mind works, the facts remain.

I certainly don't beat many games. ... um, a day or two ago I beat Mega Man 2 in the MMAC (first game in the collection I beat!)... does that count? :) Other than that, I'm not sure what the last game I beat was... it might be Baldur's Gate II, which I beat in May after playing it for 75 hours in two weeks. :D

... after owning it for three or four years without getting past the first couple hours.

Okay ABF, I haven't played since I beat the game on hard mode a while back (Prime was tough there, but after playing against it over and over, it got fairly easy... certainly no Mizar, a beast that is ALWAYS tough). However, I will go ahead and tell you my strat from what I remember.

Here's the deal. Use infrared vision! That's the only way to hit the weak spot, which should be very easy to see using infrared. Smack that with missles. I'm not sure if you can use the charged missles yet (maybe that comes later, I forget), but hey, try using that. One thing, you'll only really be able to hit that spot easily when it stands still. When it does this, and you take the time to aim (as it fills the screen with a blizzard), it will toss rocks at you. Target those and smash them with your power gun! It'll be tricky, but all you really need to do is stand still and fire missles whenever a rock isn't close enough to need breaking up. When it starts rolling around, that's the tricky part. You could just try running around to avoid it, but it's kinda hard to run (watching the path ahead mind you) and keep an eye on this guy at the same time. So, there's another trick. This thing can't roll EVERYWHERE on the screen. In those various little coves all over the outer wall, there are slightly raised areas the monster can't even seem to get to (maybe it's too narrow or something). Stay in there when it rolls around and when it turns humanoid again, use the attack method I mentioned above.

That's hardly fool-proof mind you. Sometimes the monster will be too far away to see in infrared (due to the snow), so you'll need to run out there and find it. Sometimes it'll throw rocks at just the right timing to sorta keep you from firing a missle (though even then, you should be able to sneak one or two in if you're quick). Also, I'm sure it has some other attacks, but I can't remember them right now... (Maybe I'm thinking of Omega Pirate...) Anyway, good luck with this thing.

No, you have the charged missiles. You have to use them to power up the door to get to his chamber... and yes, you have to use that visor. But at some points it gets too bright to see and then you have to go to normal... then halfway through it turns almost impossible to see in normal as well (heavy snow)... and I can't seem to not get hit much by him in ball mode. What do you do? Try to run? Turn into a ball? I did try hiding in some corners, but I seem to recall it hitting me there too... oh well. I've only tried like once in months.

I always stayed back. I tend to stay away from the giants in this game :D. I basically keep the maximum distance I possibly can while still being able to see and hit the beast.

Rolling into a ball, if you are far enough, that should work too. Maybe I did do that, probably... Anyway, just remember to boost if you do that. The important thing is to give this thing all the space it wants. Remember where the 3 ton rock monster sits...

A Black Falcon Wrote:I certainly don't beat many games. ... um, a day or two ago I beat Mega Man 2 in the MMAC (first game in the collection I beat!)... does that count? :) Other than that, I'm not sure what the last game I beat was... it might be Baldur's Gate II, which I beat in May after playing it for 75 hours in two weeks. :D

... after owning it for three or four years without getting past the first couple hours.

The last game I beat was, as I mentioned above, Kingdom Hearts. I've beaten MM 1-6 in the Collection, but until I get through 7 and 8, I'm not considering that game "beaten" yet :D.

Now I'm working on Beyond Good & Evil, though.

The last game I beat was Midtown Madness 3 on the Xbox, a month or so earlier I best Star Ocean 2 [finally].

Haven't beaten 7 or 8? But 8 is so much easier than the old ones... I only haven't beaten it because it's so much more boring. 7... I don't know if I'll ever beat that one. Doesn't seem like much of any good at all.

Anyway, I only beat 2 because I was at the boss area (finally beat Quick Man... evil stage, I can see what stage they copied to get the MMX5 first boss stage...) and after beating level 1 I realized that it didn't save after the boss levels. Irritating... I was ready to stop after the second one of those six stages, for sure, but I couldn't because I didn't want to lose all of that progress... so I was forced to play several hours of Mega Man 2. Horrible, yes?

Now I'm going to pay more Warcraft III online. ... what? I've been playing that on and off for three years now? But it's still incredibly fun... :)

Um, MM2 does too save after boss battles. HOWEVER, if you start the game over new and say "don't save over old progress" or some option like that, well, it won't save over the old data for that game.

I actually liked 7 and 8. I certainly enjoyed 7. That game has the hardest Wily of all the games, including MM&B. Also, it was one of the MM games that actually played a major part in the storyline (concerning Megaman's character), you know, the story being what it is. I also found 8 fun. I wouldn't say any of the games, except the Power games, are bad. I liked all of them, just some more than others. It's just annoying that the emulation of MM7 and MM8 weren't done well.

Quote:Um, MM2 does too save after boss battles. HOWEVER, if you start the game over new and say "don't save over old progress" or some option like that, well, it won't save over the old data for that game.

DJ, the Wily Castle. No saving after any of those stages except the last... and getting through that six level castle can take quite a while. A few hours, in my case.

Quote:I actually liked 7 and 8. I certainly enjoyed 7. That game has the hardest Wily of all the games, including MM&B. Also, it was one of the MM games that actually played a major part in the storyline (concerning Megaman's character), you know, the story being what it is. I also found 8 fun. I wouldn't say any of the games, except the Power games, are bad. I liked all of them, just some more than others. It's just annoying that the emulation of MM7 and MM8 weren't done well.

I haven't gotten through the intro level in 7. Can't get past the awful super close viewpoint (this is the worst part, easily.), stupid looking Mega Man, extremely slow walking speed, etc... MM8 has the same stupid MM and slow walk and cartoonish graphics (with added extremely bad dubbing!), but it zooms it out so it's much more tolerable.

So, what do you need to do to unlock Power Fighters, Power Battles, or that documentary thing? I don't have any of that stuff yet...