Those certainly look better than those other shots they released, which begs the question "Why on God's green earth would they release those previous shots if they had shots like THESE?"
MS kinda shot themselves in the foot with that one.
Those look much better... but still not quite next-gen. And why does Joanna look so much more slutty in that pic than in the previous one?? Eh.
BTW this whole "not on final hardware" business is stupid. That's basically how the game is going to look. It's coming out in less than six months. Everyone cried "not final hardware!" with Halo as well.
So where did that site get those screenshots from?
Here's that text translated...
"Here four new images of PDZ, drawn from a rather old build. One can nevertheless note that, in spite of a still perfectible engine, the play has a style already well with him"
:p
OB1, it's not on final hardware because the final development kits aren't yet out. Things like texture quality, poly count, framerate....all determined by the final hardware.
Is final dev kits aren't out yet then MS is retarded for releasing the system so soon. That is bullshit. And I don't buy "old build screenshot" BS, either. MS is trying to do damage control, so they release really old screens? Yeah I bet!
If you seriously think that PD0 is going to look drastically different in a few months before it has to go gold, you're out of your mind.
But hey, this is fun. It's been a while since we've had an xbobx fanboy. :D
lol, ob1. The final specs were just released, the final development kits are supposed to be in developers hands by the end of next week, and the 360 will go into production within a matter of a couple months. Nothing out of the ordinary for console launches.
Quote:MS is trying to do damage control, so they release really old screens? Yeah I bet!
I'm just reading what's on the link. Believe it or don't, but I'd take their comment over your crystal ball any day.
Quote:If you seriously think that PD0 is going to look drastically different in a few months before it has to go gold, you're out of your mind.
The pics in this thread already look far better than those old ones, and then there's this:
"Here four new images of PDZ, drawn from a rather old build. One can nevertheless note that, in spite of a still perfectible engine, the play has a style already well with him"
Like I said, keep talking. Then when PD0 launches I can drag this thread up and remind you how silly you sounded.
Quote:lol, ob1. The final specs were just released, the final development kits are supposed to be in developers hands by the end of next week, and the 360 will go into production within a matter of a couple months. Nothing out of the ordinary for console launches.
OMG they were just released even to DEVS?? Woah! I thought that they just released specs to the general public, but I guess they didn't know what they were until the mtv thing! Wow!
Quote:I'm just reading what's on the link. Believe it or don't, but I'd take their comment over your crystal ball any day.
Hahaha, just as naive as nickdaddyg. Awesome.
Quote:The pics in this thread already look far better than those old ones, and then there's this:
"Here four new images of PDZ, drawn from a rather old build. One can nevertheless note that, in spite of a still perfectible engine, the play has a style already well with him"
Like I said, keep talking. Then when PD0 launches I can drag this thread up and remind you how silly you sounded.
lol, by all means. You must carry on the nickdaddyg torch! Let's just hope that you stick around long enough to do so.
Paco where the hell do I remember you from? were you around in the old RC days?
And all bashing a side, I like the new screens better but what the hell was up with the MTV shots? Was that a 'newer build'? It doesn't make alot of sense... I also remember MS getting in trouble for photoshoping their images.
also... if a console is going to launch in 6 months... wouldn't you think that they're in a phase of getting ready to ship them all over the country rather than release the final development kits...? As far as I know, you really cant do all that much in 5 months to any massive extent other than looking for bugs and errors in the programing... even the most simple games have volumes upon volumes of code to look through and check. That takes time.
lazyfatbum Wrote:Paco where the hell do I remember you from? were you around in the old RC days?
No.
Quote:And all bashing a side, I like the new screens better but what the hell was up with the MTV shots? Was that a 'newer build'? It doesn't make alot of sense... I also remember MS getting in trouble for photoshoping their images.
I'm curious as to what the game was running on since (looks over at OB1) the hardware wasn't finalized. My guess is they were prototypes.
Quote:also... if a console is going to launch in 6 months... wouldn't you think that they're in a phase of getting ready to ship them all over the country rather than release the final development kits...? As far as I know, you really cant do all that much in 5 months to any massive extent other than looking for bugs and errors in the programing... even the most simple games have volumes upon volumes of code to look through and check. That takes time.
Look at the first generation games of any console launch. They always work with alpha kits that resemble what the final hardware should be, but the alpha kits are never as powerful as the final hardware. In the case of the current Xenon kits, the most that's been confirmed is that they were running on a two core cpu, not three like the final specs indicate. The transition to final hardware shouldn't be to hard seeing as how Microsoft has been so good about giving updates.
I think 6 months is enough time to improve a game, look at the recently released Forza for an example. Did you play the demo released back in February? The final game is a significant improvement.
Quote:But hey, this is fun. It's been a while since we've had an xbobx fanboy.
Not an Xbox fanboy, these days I'm a Rare, Naughty Dog, and Insomniac fanboy.
I miss Rare, they've released one game in 4 years, then everyone hated Grabbed by the Ghoulies and then the news of Conker's censoring really got me down. In my mind they have alot to make up for with PDZ.
Paco have you ever been to RC or TC? I know I heard that name somewhere... were you on Sega's Blast City? I ask because if you're just from out of nowhere to defend XBox360 how the hell did you find us? We're like a Resident Evil puzzle, you need the crimson wolf statue and the Bob's silver trinket (combined) to open our front gate and then it's a massive battle to figure out which website is the one we're actually currently using since we have like 8 incarnations.
I hope you stick around for E3, it'll be fun talking shit to you and showing how superior the Revolution is. :D
But as far as PDZ and other XBox360 games, i think it's safe to say that there's a bunch of confusing shit going on right here and it'll be more concrete at E3. For every great picture of an XBox360 game, there's 5 krap ones that dont even look next gen. So something's up. I mean, from a corporate... business stand point, why would you unveil your new hardware with lackluster graphics (and engines) when you're installed user base are teens and adults mostly interested in graphics and pretty pictures? It dun make no sense.
Okay, I looked at your profile, I guess you've been here before. :D
Oh, about the kits. I agree that framerate and drawing speed will be increased but not actual polygons. That's something you have to physically do. The clock speed of the poly drawing however could be improved if the newer development kits allow it which will improve the frame rate. I doubt it will be from 20 to 60. But it should get around the 30 to 40 hopefully and stay locked. God knows nobody wants slow down.
IGN reported that the PD0 they recently played ran at under 20fps on average, so if there are going to be any improvements before the game comes out I'm sure it'll be to improve the framerate. I seriously doubt it'll look drastically better than these screens.
Also Paco, the same can be said about every system that has ever launched. Yet the generational leap is never deniable. Halo looked much, much better than anything on the PSX or N64, even though it too was not made with final dev kits. So your point is flawed.
I think that if they can delay it PDZ will be delayed. But I imagine they've got a lot of pressure from MS to have it ready for launch.
So...where did this website get their "new" Perfect Dark Zero screenshots from?
I'm not trying to be overly skeptical here, but 1UP obviously got their screenshots directly from MS because they actually went to Rare's headquarters [or MS's] and those were the screenshots they got. So where they heck did these screenshots come from?
I don't know but someone said that this one isn't a real screenshot.
![[Image: 771_0001.jpg]](http://media.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/1095/771_0001.jpg)
In that last pic it says "HDR enabled". Some people have said that the reason for the sucky screens could be because HDR wasn't enabled. I have no idea what HDR is though and have no way to know if that is possible. So does anyone know what HDR is?
I thought Jo had brown hair...
Oh well...
Anyway, NORMALLY I'd point out that yes, games start out looking worse than what the Super FX chip could do and near the end IS where things start pulling together and the drastic changes are made. Well, this is pretty near the end actually... If MS is going to pull a system out of their arse I suggest they stand up...
I believe the HDR is either 'Hard Drive' or some kind of HD option to run the game at its highest resolution. HDR looks like High Def Recorder as well
I'd still like to know why there are 4-5 different looking Joanna Dark's running around the internet.
Those original PD0 screenshots weren't exactly los-rez and they were just about as clears as the second batch of Halo shots you posted. They may be able to make some improvements over the next five months, but don't expect a miracle if those first screenshots are all that they have so far.
lazyfatbum Wrote:I believe the HDR is either 'Hard Drive' or some kind of HD option to run the game at its highest resolution. HDR looks like High Def Recorder as well
I'm surprised you've never heard of it before. :)
HDRI stands for high dynamic range imaging, and basically it allows for a far more realistic and dynamic range of lighting than previous techniques have allowed.
Check this out:
http://www.facepunchstudios.com/forums/s...hp?t=21286
These are all models from HL2, smoothed out in 3dsmax.
![[Image: Comptest16.jpg]](http://members.iinet.net.au/~kris.mar/Comptest16.jpg)
![[Image: Comptest9.jpg]](http://members.iinet.net.au/~kris.mar/Comptest9.jpg)
![[Image: Comptest4.jpg]](http://members.iinet.net.au/~kris.mar/Comptest4.jpg)
![[Image: Comptest5.jpg]](http://members.iinet.net.au/~kris.mar/Comptest5.jpg)
![[Image: Previs%201.jpg]](http://members.iinet.net.au/~kris.mar/Previs%201.jpg)
![[Image: onbed_800.jpg]](http://users.zoominternet.net/~tain/onbed_800.jpg)
Pretty amazing, no? Here's how it was done:
Quote:Blimey, thanks for all the great feedback... I think this thread has gone off course now!
Anyway, much appreciated. I've posted a few images to sort of explain how things are done.
1. The background photo is taken.
2. The light probe is photographed at multiple exposures to capture all the levels of light in the area.
3. It's then tranformed into a panorama, which is later wrapped around the 3D scene as a global light source (using the multiple levels of light which are stored into a HDR file.)
4. A photo is taken of the probe with the same angle of the final shot, which you later use in the 3D software to line the reflective sphere up with a digital one (effectively rotating the lighting into place)
5. Different layers are posed/prepared in the 3D software before the final rendering is done.
6. Each layer is rendered using the lighting captured with the reflective sphere, and then composited in Photoshop.
Great Rumbler Wrote:Those original PD0 screenshots weren't exactly los-rez and they were just about as clears as the second batch of Halo shots you posted. They may be able to make some improvements over the next five months, but don't expect a miracle if those first screenshots are all that they have so far.
Why are you dismissing the second batch of released shots?
Those Halo shots show that improvements can be made in that amount of time. Those pics from E3 2001 don't quite do the released game justice.
Quote:These are all models from HL2, smoothed out in 3dsmax.
Neat.
Quote:Why are you dismissing the second batch of released shots?
There was a change from the high-rez E3 shots to the finished product, but it wasn't a whole lot. Mostly adding in a few better textures, but over all the poly count doesn't seem to be in higher in any noticeable way.
Those were poor captures that only look bad because of the aliasing. The PD0 shots show far more serious problems. The models are very low-quality (5,000 polys!), the textures are underwhelming, and reportedly the framerate is crap, too. Now the framerate they can fix, as well as some other minor cosmetic changes, but there's no chance that they'll completely revamp the models and textures in five months time.
Don't worry, you shall see.
Quote:Don't worry, you shall see.
Even if we'd rather not.
Indeed. I guess Paco doesn't know me, so he assumes that I'm some raging Nintendo fanboy or something. Haha, and to think that some people have called me an Xbox fanboy over here. It's hilarious!
All I know is that those first PD0 shots are just plain embarrasing.
OB1 Wrote:Indeed. I guess Paco doesn't know me, so he assumes that I'm some raging Nintendo fanboy or something. Haha, and to think that some people have called me an Xbox fanboy over here. It's hilarious!
Not at all, you're clearly well educated and have the uncanny ability of predicting the future.
It's called experience, my friend. I've been obsessing over every little detail in this industry for the past nine years. I know pretty well what it takes to make a game, and I know how long it takes to make the changes that you are suggesting, and I know what is impressive from a technical point of view.
Oh well there's always Perfect Dark -1.
I've been gaming since the original Nintendo, and owning every console along the way. I have every bit a valid point of view as you do when it comes to games, especially when it comes to whether something impresses me or not.
I've made suggestions for changes in the game? I've only looked at what's been shown and I bothered to read that the pics were taken from early builds. We don't know how early they were from, and we don't know how early the prototype 360 at the MTV event was either. You're talking from your ass because there's nothing in the way of substantial evidence to call it one way or the other.
When Rare says its near complete I'll be more than happy to have this discussion with you again.
If they're going to make it by launch, Rare will need to finish it very soon.
Quote:Indeed. I guess Paco doesn't know me, so he assumes that I'm some raging Nintendo fanboy or something. Haha, and to think that some people have called me an Xbox fanboy over here. It's hilarious!
If he knew you, he might have just quit the argument before starting it becuse he'd know that you will never change your mind and admit defeat even when defeated, so be happy he doesn't... :)
Oh, in this case you're pretty much right. But still, your attitude makes people not want to argue with you no matter who is right...
Quote:It's called experience, my friend. I've been obsessing over every little detail in this industry for the past nine years. I know pretty well what it takes to make a game, and I know how long it takes to make the changes that you are suggesting, and I know what is impressive from a technical point of view.
And this makes you the absolute authority on everything, of course.
As for this case... yeah, if it's coming out this year, it'll be hard to improve significantly. But it CAN be done... don't think that it's impossible, because stranger things have happened before. Given that we know the X-Box 360 can do better, given some of the other games showing on it, it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to expect this game to improve graphically... the main question is how long that would take. And this is really an unknown... well, we do know one thing: This is Rare. That means that everything will take longer than it should. :) ... so either it'll come out at launch, but probably not significantly improved over what we see now (well, the small things like framerate will be mostly fixed, but not everything), or it'll be delayed and end up being great. Which one happens probably depends on how much pressure MS puts Rare under to have something ready at launch... it might not be possible for Rare to match Unreal Engine 3, but they can certainly improve it a lot. It just depends on how quickly they can work...
Paco Wrote:I've been gaming since the original Nintendo, and owning every console along the way. I have every bit a valid point of view as you do when it comes to games, especially when it comes to whether something impresses me or not.
I've made suggestions for changes in the game? I've only looked at what's been shown and I bothered to read that the pics were taken from early builds. We don't know how early they were from, and we don't know how early the prototype 360 at the MTV event was either. You're talking from your ass because there's nothing in the way of substantial evidence to call it one way or the other.
When Rare says its near complete I'll be more than happy to have this discussion with you again.
Being a gamer and learning skills to become a game designer are two very things, hermano. You become more critical of technical things. Texture work, modeling, animation, everything.
And these were official MS shots. They released them, no one else. Why would they release such crappy-looking shots, huh? I'm afraid that it is
you who is doing the ass-talking.
Read my last post...
Quote:Being a gamer and learning skills to become a game designer are two very things, hermano. You become more critical of technical things. Texture work, modeling, animation, everything.
And these were official MS shots. They released them, no one else. Why would they release such crappy-looking shots, huh? I'm afraid that it is you who is doing the ass-talking.
They don't look THAT horrible. They just don't look like as big a step up as you'd expect if you go by what we got from previous generation jumps.
OB1 Wrote:Being a gamer and learning skills to become a game designer are two very things, hermano. You become more critical of technical things. Texture work, modeling, animation, everything.
Having been through four generations of consoles I have every bit a feel for what the transition should be like going into the next generation. As for what impresses us it is relative based on our experience, and in no way does your industry experience invalidate my opinion.
Quote:And these were official MS shots. They released them, no one else. Why would they release such crappy-looking shots, huh? I'm afraid that it is you who is doing the ass-talking.
Both articles have said they are from old builds/alpha kits. Deal with that. We don't know how old they are. Deal with that.
Why is it less than 48 hours after the first shots were released we already have other shots that are easily distinguishable in quality? That's inconsistent and if you ask me is hardly a base for arguing the outcome of said game.
Quote:They don't look THAT horrible. They just don't look like as big a step up as you'd expect if you go by what we got from previous generation jumps.
That Wall Guy shot
was really shitty.
Quote:Having been through four generations of consoles I have every bit a feel for what the transition should be like going into the next generation. As for what impresses us it is relative based on our experience, and in no way does your industry experience invalidate my opinion.
You're obviously an XBox fanboy, and an even more ardent one than most of them out there. Because you're the first person on the internet whose name is not J Allard who actually thinks that PD0 stuff looks good, even as good as Unreal 3.
Quote:Both articles have said they are from old builds/alpha kits. Deal with that. We don't know how old they are. Deal with that.
Why is it less than 48 hours after the first shots were released we already have other shots that are easily distinguishable in quality? That's inconsistent and if you ask me is hardly a base for arguing the outcome of said game.
Why release those shots in the first place, and those clips on that MTV special which is the only way all of these casual gamers are going to see the game for a very long time? Huh? MS cannot be that dumb. They simply can't.
But hey, continue kidding yourself. Keep that spirit.
Quote:You're obviously an XBox fanboy, and an even more ardent one than most of them out there. Because you're the first person on the internet whose name is not J Allard who actually thinks that PD0 stuff looks good, even as good as Unreal 3.
You're going to have to stop putting words in my mouth, it's frustrating to say the least. The character models, just the character models!
You think what you want, it's not as if you're opinion is any more valuable than my own.
Quote:Why release those shots in the first place, and those clips on that MTV special which is the only way all of these casual gamers are going to see the game for a very long time? Huh? MS cannot be that dumb. They simply can't.
But hey, continue kidding yourself. Keep that spirit.
Those are all good questions and the fact of the matter is neither one of us has the answer. In other words, my speculation is every bit of garbage as yours is.
Quote:The character models, just the character models!
The models don't really look that great. About like Halo 2.
Quote:You're going to have to stop putting words in my mouth, it's frustrating to say the least. The character models, just the character models!
You think what you want, it's not as if you're opinion is any more valuable than my own.
I was talking about the character models this entire time...
Quote:Those are all good questions and the fact of the matter is neither one of us has the answer. In other words, my speculation is every bit of garbage as yours is.
Not true, because I'm judging the screens that are actually out, while your entire argument falls on the assumption that these were just a terrible mistake and that the final game won't look like relative crap... even though you still insist that it looks as good as Unreal 3! Whew!
OB1 Wrote:Not true, because I'm judging the screens that are actually out, while your entire argument falls on the assumption that these were just a terrible mistake and that the final game won't look like relative crap... even though you still insist that it looks as good as Unreal 3! Whew!
If my argument is based on assumption then why is it that I keep saying what I've seen of the character models is as impressive?
Because you keep on saying that the game will look better and that it's not fair to judge the ones out already. Like I said, you are contradicting yourself.
I didn't think the character models were impressive at all.
![[Image: zeroJoanna1.jpg]](http://www.rare-extreme.com/images/zeroJoanna1.jpg)
![[Image: DSC00790Small.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/Pug72/DSC00790Small.jpg)
![[Image: pd0joanna.jpg]](http://n-alcove.com/pd0joanna.jpg)
![[Image: pdz_11267.jpg]](http://www.gamereactor.dk/media/pdz_11267.jpg)