OB1 Wrote:Because you keep on saying that the game will look better and that it's not fair to judge the ones out already. Like I said, you are contradicting yourself.
But you have two different sets of pics with different levels of quality, plus the video. How is that substantial evidence to base an argument on the level of quality on the final product? The video (NOT THE MTV VIDEO) is what I've been judging my reaction on this entire time. Never moved from it...*watching it again right now*...yep, still stand by it.
If it changes, better or worse, so will my impression.
Yes, I know what video you are talking about! The quality is not good for what is supposed to ne a next-gen system!
Quote:The images were withdrawn at the request of Microsoft.
Hmm...
Quote:You're going to have to stop putting words in my mouth, it's frustrating to say the least. The character models, just the character models!
No, OB1 always knows what you mean... what you think you mean is only incidental.
... yes, it is very annoying. Even in cases like this one where he's more right than wrong.
Quote:Why release those shots in the first place, and those clips on that MTV special which is the only way all of these casual gamers are going to see the game for a very long time? Huh? MS cannot be that dumb. They simply can't.
But hey, continue kidding yourself. Keep that spirit.
Because that's what they had at the time... I'm sure it will get better, though. Though forcing it as a launch title won't help... I mean, Rare did fantastic things on the N64, but their first two games (KI Gold and Blast Corps) weren't spectacular graphical titles. That came with the later games... I think that they work best when given time. Too much time, by most standards. The thing is, MS wants games, not infinite dev cycles... so it'll come out looking good, but not as good as Rare could have gotten it if given a Duke Nukem Forever-style infinite dev cycle. :)
Quote:But you have two different sets of pics with different levels of quality, plus the video. How is that substantial evidence to base an argument on the level of quality on the final product? The video (NOT THE MTV VIDEO) is what I've been judging my reaction on this entire time. Never moved from it...*watching it again right now*...yep, still stand by it.
It looks current-gen at best. I won't say that becuase you're defending it so much you're an X-Box fanboy or something, but you clearly are not looking realistically at this game... it doesn't match up to the other X-Box 360 stuff we have seen! Deal with it! But saying 'it's unfinished hardware', 'it'll get better'... while true, it's irrelevant. Other games are running on that same exact hardware and look better than this one does.
Quote:Yes, I know what video you are talking about! The quality is not good for what is supposed to ne a next-gen system!
I think you're just expecting too much from the next generation... as hardware gets more powerful seeing as big of a difference gets harder and harder to do. We haven't maxed out graphics yet, but they've gotten very, very good... it's just not realistic to expect a PS1-to-PS2 level of jump between generations this time. I mean, even the best looking next-gen stuff is just evolutionary, not revolutionary, when compared to current-gen games...
I'm not saying any more until I see some pics and Rare says they are representative of what the final game will be. Until then all is speculation and it's hardly worth arguing over.
But you still think that the game looks great.
BTW ignore ABF's comments, I've proved him wrong a million times in the past so he tries to "get me" whenever he has the chance. A very cowardly boy.
Quote:BTW ignore ABF's comments, I've proved him wrong a million times in the past so he tries to "get me" whenever he has the chance. A very cowardly boy.
The only difference between me and a bunch of other people here is that I say what most people here don't want to because they'd rather not incite you.
Quote:I'm not saying any more until I see some pics and Rare says they are representative of what the final game will be. Until then all is speculation and it's hardly worth arguing over.
The "early hardware" argument isn't very good, though...
Quote:But you still think that the game looks great.
No, I think the character models that I have seen from that video (not the MTV video) look great. The environments need some work.
Quote:The "early hardware" argument isn't very good, though...
Time will tell.
Actually, OB1 and ABF constantly fight and never get anywhere. OB1 is convinced he's always right, and ABF never knows when to back down. It's really cute.
Quote:The only difference between me and a bunch of other people here is that I say what most people here don't want to because they'd rather not incite you.
People hate being wrong. I've proved you people wrong so many times in the past that the thought of me being right over and over again just boils your blood.
And I love it. :D
Quote:Actually, OB1 and ABF constantly fight and never get anywhere. OB1 is convinced he's always right, and ABF never knows when to back down. It's really cute.
The reason why I'm right so often is because I talk out of my ass far less frequently than the rest of you. If I don't know enough about a certain subject I shut my trap. Something you would be very wise to copy.
Quote:The reason why I'm right so often is because I talk out of my ass far less frequently than the rest of you. If I don't know enough about a certain subject I shut my trap. Something you would be very wise to copy.
Now what fun would that be?
Quote:People hate being wrong. I've proved you people wrong so many times in the past that the thought of me being right over and over again just boils your blood.
And I love it.
You prove everything we say about you is true every time you once again declare that you are not and never have been wrong. It makes you sound like W., and it makes you sound just as stupid as he does when he's asked "Can you think of any mistake you have ever made?" and he thinks about it, and thinks about it, and says "No"...
Quote:The reason why I'm right so often is because I talk out of my ass far less frequently than the rest of you. If I don't know enough about a certain subject I shut my trap. Something you would be very wise to copy.
You sound so reasonable, in a way, at times like these... but if you then look at how you are once in an argument, it throws a whole new light on statements like these... (you know, to the 'I know I am right and you are wrong" statements based on flawed assumptions of what the other person is saying that you refuse to mentally amend)... oh well. Writing those long posts gives me something to do... you don't listen (and have no interest in listening), and no one else wants to read so much, but it's better than nothing...
Quote:You prove everything we say about you is true every time you once again declare that you are not and never have been wrong. It makes you sound like W., and it makes you sound just as stupid as he does when he's asked "Can you think of any mistake you have ever made?" and he thinks about it, and thinks about it, and says "No"...
Ah but of course, because we all know that I was wrong about the PSP.
Oh wait...
Quote:You sound so reasonable, in a way, at times like these... but if you then look at how you are once in an argument, it throws a whole new light on statements like these... (you know, to the 'I know I am right and you are wrong" statements based on flawed assumptions of what the other person is saying that you refuse to mentally amend)... oh well. Writing those long posts gives me something to do... you don't listen (and have no interest in listening), and no one else wants to read so much, but it's better than nothing...
I bet you have a picture of one of my avatars and curse me every night before you go to bed for being so right so often.
You might find it hard to believe it, but I'm a humble person in real life, most of the time. What makes TC so different for me is that some of you are just
so wrong sometimes and it gives me great pleasure to be right so often. So being smug can be fun since I know it annoys you so. :D
Quote:Ah but of course, because we all know that I was wrong about the PSP.
Oh wait...
You weren't completely right either, you know.
Quote:I bet you have a picture of one of my avatars and curse me every night before you go to bed for being so right so often.
You might find it hard to believe it, but I'm a humble person in real life, most of the time. What makes TC so different for me is that some of you are just so wrong sometimes and it gives me great pleasure to be right so often. So being smug can be fun since I know it annoys you so.
Humble is one thing you definitely are not... on TC, for any rate. Quite the opposite... "I know I am right about everything, and it's frusterating that you can't understand that I am so perfect" is not humble.
Quote:and it gives me great pleasure to be right so often
The problem is that you leave every argument with this conclusion in your brain, whether or not it is true. But we've gone over all this before, and doing it again is pointless... you don't change. Telling you how you act doesn't change anything. So this really is pointless...
Quote:You weren't completely right either, you know.
I was like 90% right.
Quote:Humble is one thing you definitely are not... on TC, for any rate. Quite the opposite... "I know I am right about everything, and it's frusterating that you can't understand that I am so perfect" is not humble.
Well TC brings that out of me. You and a few others... are assholes much of the time, so I must act likewise.
Quote:The problem is that you leave every argument with this conclusion in your brain, whether or not it is true. But we've gone over all this before, and doing it again is pointless... you don't change. Telling you how you act doesn't change anything. So this really is pointless...
Keep on living in that delusional world of yours, my boy. Keep on living there.
And it's that attitude that makes you so incredibly annoying. And you're the only person who doesn't know it, I'm pretty sure.
What, you think I just happen to annoy you this much by accident? Give me some credit, lad!
Oh, right, TC got a lot more fun for you when you realized that it was easier to make the insults intentional, or something... :S
You annoy me, I annoy you. That's how things work.
Do you hear that, OB1? :)
Do you?
I can hear it...
It's getting louder. :)
*listens* I hear a fire truck...
I hear a... *listens carefully*... poor attempt at a witty insult-ish(?) comment...
Or was that a printer...
No, it was a fire truck. Or possible the sound of bacon frying.
Yeah, and I've heard nothing but positive impressions on how great it looks in motion. I can't wait to see some videos and hear more about the new gameplay elements.
I think the whole wall-guy thing was just a trick to lower people's expectations and then blow everyone away by showing them something that looked a lot better in comparison.
Really? I think it was representative of a work-in-progress. The final beta kits just got into the hands of developers no more than a couple weeks ago, and now we're seeing a noticeable difference from before when they were running on alpha kits.
^^^Why the fuck does it feel like I've had this discussion before? Oh yeah, because I did with OB1. Eat crow, my friend.
Me:
Quote:Those certainly look better than those other shots they released, which begs the question "Why on God's green earth would they release those previous shots if they had shots like THESE?"
MS kinda shot themselves in the foot with that one.
Eat what?
Wall-guy looked horrible plain and simple. They should never have let 1Up have those screenshots.
They probably wanted to show something, but yeah, it definitely did more harm than good... now it looks great graphically, but a lot of people already have judged it negatively. They should be able to make up for that, but still, it was stupid...
The MTV event and any impact it may have had will be negated once people see the final game.
ABF, ever heard the expression that any news is good news? IMO, creating awareness of PDZ did alot more good than the OBVIOUS work-in-progress graphics shown. Now we have scans that show a great improvement, game journalists saying it looks great in motion, and in a couple of weeks we'll see it in motion. Any premature opinions will be blown away and forgotten.
It still made no sense to show shots that were just awful and barely better than Xbox quality.
Great Rumbler Wrote:Me:
Eat what?
Wall-guy looked horrible plain and simple. They should never have let 1Up have those screenshots.
The crow thing was aimed at OB1. I have no doubt he'll desperately cling to his premature conclusion but it's okay because I'll know he was wrong.
Anyone who made anything of a final judgement on the game six months before its release is stupid, plain and simple. Especially when Rare and Microsoft made it very clear that it was from an early build. Seriously, what is it about a state of work-in-progress that's so difficult to understand?
Great Rumbler Wrote:It still made no sense to show shots that were just awful and barely better than Xbox quality.
I don't know if you noticed or not but it created quite a frenzy on the internet, good or bad. I doubt you could come across a gaming forum where even one member doesn't know about the game. Those who don't browse forums but caught the MTV event will be taken care of when MS rolls out a Halo 2-like advertisement campaign.
In any case, people will know soon enough what the final game looks like and ultimately that's all that matters. Me, I've been excited this whole time.
Quote:Those certainly look better than those other shots they released, which begs the question "Why on God's green earth would they release those previous shots if they had shots like THESE?"
MS kinda shot themselves in the foot with that one.
They didn't have shots like the most recent shown to release at that time. Remember the whole "these are from an early build" thing? Microsoft and Rare didn't say that for nothing, and there actually has been a reason why I've quoted it several times in this thread alone.
Quote:The crow thing was aimed at OB1. I have no doubt he'll desperately cling to his premature conclusion but it's okay because I'll know he was wrong.
OB1's not around anymore, by the way.
Quote:They didn't have shots like the most recent shown to release at that time. Remember the whole "these are from an early build" thing? Microsoft and Rare didn't say that for nothing, and there actually has been a reason why I've quoted it several times in this thread alone.
There's nothing wrong with showing shots from an early build, but if the shots look terrible what's the point?
I guess it depends what someone perceives as terrible. I've made it crystal clear I didn't think they were bad, and I know I'm not alone on that.
Microsoft said they wanted to have something playable at the MTV event. The MTV event, bad as I thought it was, would have been even worse if all Microsoft had were trailers (though it seems to be working for Sony and the flock that follows them). It couldn't have been that bad though, the Xbox 360 has been pre-selling like crazy over the summer. It's hard to get in a pre-order anywhere. As I suggested, it created awareness.
What happened to OB1?
Quote:I guess it depends what someone perceives as terrible. I've made it crystal clear I didn't think they were bad, and I know I'm not alone on that.
They were barely better than Halo 2, if at all, for next-gen that's terrible.
Quote:What happened to OB1?
A bunch of stuff happened and a lot of people got mad. By the next day OB1 was gone.
Great Rumbler Wrote:They were barely better than Halo 2, if at all, for next-gen that's terrible.
A bunch of stuff happened and a lot of people got mad. By the next day OB1 was gone.
I'd say it was a mixed bag, but mostly good. Wall guy, when blown up and all the little details showing (or lack of) didn't look good. The pictures they showed of Joanna were obviously better and looked quite good, as I've said several times now. You're free to have your opinion though.
I'm gonna look around to see what the fuss was about...
"Any publicity is good publicity"? I'm not so sure. I mean, when the publicity was as bad as the 'Wall Guy' stuff was... that's not good. People knew PD0 was coming sometime, they didn't really need to be reminded unless there was something worthwhile... that was not good enough.
OB1 quit in May or so... you've been gone a while.
Quote:A bunch of stuff happened and a lot of people got mad. By the next day OB1 was gone.
'A lot of people got mad' had happened before... OB1's mistake was going after Ryan and Lazy. Oops.
A Black Falcon Wrote:"Any publicity is good publicity"? I'm not so sure. I mean, when the publicity was as bad as the 'Wall Guy' stuff was... that's not good. People knew PD0 was coming sometime, they didn't really need to be reminded unless there was something worthwhile... that was not good enough.
But you can't deny the controversey, and thus drawing attention to itself, it caused. One camp of veteran Rare gamers who knew without a doubt it would shape up to be visually stunning, and then the naysayers which I never fully understood their position as Microsoft made it very clear that is was an early build. Besides, the MTV wasn't just about Wall Guy, it was for the Xbox 360. It created awareness and the Xbox 360 will have benefited from it, and when the final Perfect Dark Zero is shown all those first impressions will be for naught. There were those who said wait and see, and others who declared it a disaster. The latter group is going to look pretty foolish.
I love Rare, so it created nothing but excitement for me. It was good enough then, and it's just gotten better since.
Quote:OB1 quit in May or so... you've been gone a while.
Geez, that time flew by. It looks like it happened right after I stopped checking in so often. I was really busy with work and summer courses.
I found the the 'my two cents' thread and I am amazed how big a deal he made of such a non-issue.
Quote:I found the the 'my two cents' thread and I am amazed how big a deal he made of such a non-issue.
That's OB1 for you... when he decides he's going to argue about something, he goes all out in the effort, no matter how minor the issue...
I wish he hadn't left, as I've said before, it's kind of boring here without him. Even if it is a lot more pleasant. :)
Quote:Geez, that time flew by. It looks like it happened right after I stopped checking in so often. I was really busy with work and summer courses.
And you conveniently reappear right after I resurrect a thread you posted in? :)
Quote:But you can't deny the controversey, and thus drawing attention to itself, it caused. One camp of veteran Rare gamers who knew without a doubt it would shape up to be visually stunning, and then the naysayers which I never fully understood their position as Microsoft made it very clear that is was an early build. Besides, the MTV wasn't just about Wall Guy, it was for the Xbox 360. It created awareness and the Xbox 360 will have benefited from it, and when the final Perfect Dark Zero is shown all those first impressions will be for naught. There were those who said wait and see, and others who declared it a disaster. The latter group is going to look pretty foolish.
I love Rare, so it created nothing but excitement for me. It was good enough then, and it's just gotten better since.
Rare was great in the N64 days, but it hasn't been nearly as good since, so I'm not exactly waiting eagerly... well, and there's the fact that I'm not getting an X360 anytime soon, to say the least... and the fact that Kameo looks kind of dull (a bit too much like SFA in some ways... well, either SFA or some mediocre-but-beautiful action game, given how it's been described as having action-game combat... either way, doesn't look like their best effort ever.), and PD0? Looks decent I guess but, you might remember, FPSes aren't exactly one of my favorite genres. They're decent, but there are many other better genres I like a more. But pretending that I did actually have the money for an X360 that I wanted to spend on it, my question would be 'how is the single player'... multiplayer FPSes just have never caught my interest for long at all. 32-player online multiplayer? Joy. I'd play it five times, maybe. :)
A Black Falcon Wrote:And you conveniently reappear right after I resurrect a thread you posted in? :)
I found it funny, too. It's the weekend and I don't have anything going on so I decided to check in. I suppose it was destined to be.
I just found some Perfect Dark Zero vids but don't have the time to download them and dicuss them at the moment. I will be back with some links and my own impressions later tonight or tomorrow.
It looks good, but it's still roughly on par with what we've seen from other Xbox360 games.