Japan Charts: PSP overtakes DS
"The Japanese software market continues to slow down after the busy New Year period, with new GBA release Mario Party Advance taking the top spot while weekly sales of the PSP surpassed DS sales for the first time.
Mario Party Advance displaced PS2 title Gran Turismo 4 from the top spot, selling 68,000 units in its first week on sale, while only one other new release made it into the top ten - From Software's PS2 action title The Story of Hero Yoshitune, which sold 42,000 units and came in at number three.
All eyes, however, are on the battle between Sony's PSP and Nintendo's DS, which saw the PlayStation Portable pulling ahead of its rival in weekly hardware sales for the first time, taking just under 31 per cent market share as opposed to just over 25 per cent for the DS.
The DS, of course, still has a huge lead in terms of overall installed base, but its sales are slowing slightly after the initial rush - while demand for the PSP remains high, with Sony's limited shipments being snapped up as soon as they arrive at retail.
Nintendo's platform continues to dominate in terms of software sales, however, with Wario Ware: Touched! taking the number four slot in this week's ranking, ahead of Super Mario 64 DS at number seven.
Two PSP titles also make it into the top ten - Hot Shots Golf Portable at number eight and Dynasty Warriors at number ten - but how much of a sales boost this represents is tough to judge, given that overall software sales in Japan dropped by over 40 per cent this week.
It's certainly too early to judge the performance of either the DS or the PSP based on this data, as PlayStation Portable continues to be badly affected by supply shortages while the DS is a few weeks further into its cycle and has enjoyed good supplies all along, meaning that most early adopters who want one already have a console at this point.
One thing is certain, though - the arrival of the DS and PSP has hurt sales of the Game Boy Advance, with the older handheld platform accounting for only nine per cent of the market last week. PlayStation 2, however, continues to dominate - leading the field with over 31 per cent market share."
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/news.php?aid=6393
At this point it's safe to say that, if not something that will take the lead, the PSP will be the first portable to be a real success outside Nintendo's own... EVER! I was too cowardly to take a solid position either way... no wait, too LOGICAL! Yeah, that's the ticket. Anyway, this is the evidence I was looking for.
Now then, let's see how well it does in America. I'm pretty certain that... um okay I guess it is hard to say. When did the DS launch in Japan again? I know that the DS got a huge lead in America anyway, that could mean a lot, since it always has for Sony... Then again...
Honestly? I always thought that the PSP had about the chance of success that the DS had. I said something to the effect of "Well, the real question is if the market is willing to pay that much for a handheld. If so, I think both could do well." However, I also said I really didn't think the market WAS willing to buy a super expensive handheld. The second the DS took off by insane amounts, I realized it was and the PSP could do well itself.
I'll be honest, I'm not very impressed with the DS. The current lineup is mediocre, and I'm not really sold on the touch screen technology. I won't deny that it's innovative and different, but I've played the Metroid demo several times, and none of the control schemes are intuitive at all.
I keep wishing Nintendo would realize that people really do just like having newer, better looking games, and these gimmicky new gameplay ideas are really not that desirable, unless there is a both a widespread application for it, and if having it really enhances the gameplay. You'd think they'd have learned from the failures of the E-Reader, Virtual Boy, GC/GBA link, and a dozen others (coming soon: DK Bongos!).
The Eye-Toy is a perfect example of a desirable peripheral: It has decent support, it's very simple to operate, and it's a frickin blast to play with. In my opinion, it's the best peripheral hands-down in a very, very long time. GameBoy Player is another example of a really good peripheral idea, and while I don't have numbers, I'm willing to bet it's by far the best-selling Nintendo-made peripheral since the Rumble Pak.
The Gameboy Player, if you ask me, is a living breathing purpose defeat. Also, I have one. Really, the only thing it does is give you your own TV to control a game. Most of the time I prefer using the system those games were made for instead, due to portability. Not a terrible device, but really it's something they could just as soon not made and no one would care. Hardly innovation OR quality gameplay addition there.
Oh, those devices you list, allow me to make my say about each one indivitually...
Virtual Boy? True 3D imagery isn't a bad idea, but that was living poor execution. It was a wanna-be portable. That is, not portable at all, but they wanted it to be I guess. Also, it lacked color, well, unless you count red and black. Finally, it wasn't even powerful enough to really realize the one thing it actually was supposed to do. Most of the games used sprites! Kinda hard to sell 3D gaming on a device where everything still has to be flat anyway. Essentially, while true 3D imaging in a display would be nice, in and of itself, the virtual boy was terrible. I have one...
E-Reader, what a horridly useless device with NO potential at all. Seriously, nothing. Every single NES game released for that thing can, and is being, released on the GBA anyway. The only difference is the cost. Actually, price is the only thing cards have going for them, and you have to buy the e-reader anyway just to take advantage of that. Oh yes, the additional gameplay features it's supposed to add? Well, in the case of animal crossing, every single one of those items it "adds" are already in the game's code. In the case of something like Super Mario Bros 3, it actually does add levels, but those don't HAVE to be added that way. This is where Nintendo decided to make a silly gimic instead of something like, oh say, an online adapter for the GBA. They could have added data THAT way. Actually, speaking of, Nintendo could actually design DS games that can be expanded and start giving people downloadables they can run that will send out the update over their wi-fi access point, wherein the DS will then pick it up. Of course, people would need an access point to do that...
Oh yes, the GCN/BGA link-up is actually a pretty good idea now that I've seen the games they actually work well with. Before it was used for unlockables, not just boring, but a total con there. However, if you play Four Swords Adventures, it's hardly a gimic. The GCN's power is used to display the really nice game, but the 4 unique screens can be used to privatly sneak around. Hardly gimicy there, it's actually an important gameplay feature that a LOT of games could make use of. However, it is a very EXPENSIVE thing. Also, it's something that the ENTIRE industry just making ALL new systems super powerful handhelds would make pointless, since people would no longer need the super powered system on da big screen, just the little screens. However, since that won't be happening, this is good enough.
Light guns speak for themselves, they go "clack". They should stick around simply because it's fun to shoot your TV.
Okay, now for the DS. I'm... mixed to say the least.
First off, the touch screen is something that's been proven to me VERY well thanks to mini-game madness. The touch screen is something I think all handhelds should have from now on, if they can only manage to make it easily reachable! It's just too uncomfortable to use the thing right now. It doesn't help that the DS is heavy enough that my wrists actually get strained from holding the thing for more than 5 minutes. Seriously, it's a first, and that's coming from someone who has failed to even flinch on controllers I was supposed to find horribly uncomfortable.
That said, I will add that while the touch screen and microphone thing is a great idea, as good as the eye-toy in the control it adds anyway, the duel screen thing is just plain useless. Nintendo can't prove it's usefullness, because it isn't useful and it's impossible to prove something that isn't true. There's cost, but for sheer use, there's no point at all. It really could have easily been just one really big screen like on the PSP. The duel screen setup really is completely pointless in every way. If anything, it hurts it because now a game can't use the entire screen area to display one camera view. Well, they can but it will be split in the middle, and that would be VERY annoying.
Also, the DS is lacking in a few other areas. They really should have added analog support to the buttons. They could get full control in 3D games if they just made the d-pad analog. As it is, Mario 64 is HELL to control! The touch screen, as much as I like it, is A HORRIBLE way to control that game! Seriously, it's aweful! The D-pad is surprisingly decent, but really, analog support in there would have been much appreciated. I kinda wonder if the designers of that port even tried playing the game with the touch screen... The touch screen is good, but NOT for platformers. Oh, the touch screen is a little iffy in FPS games too. I mean, once you scroll to the edge, you have to move your stylus back to the other edge of the screen, and that takes milliseconds you don't have in a fire fight. Continous non-stop movement is a must in that sort of game. In games like strategy, or drawing, or crazy mini-game madness, or I'm seeing lots of stuff where direct touch it and move it there control would really be great, it'll be great though.
Eye-toy... On the one hand, I REALLY want to hate that thing :D, you know, for being so gimicky. On the other hand, I realize deep down how nice a device it could be, essentially replacing countless other devices all at once, thus making it very worthwhile.
The DS is still in the lead by about 1 million units, so I'm not exactly worried just yet.
Quote:The current lineup is mediocre
I'll certainly agree wit you there. I've only bought two games so far: Mario 64, and Feel the Magic. Both good games in their own ways, but nothing super-amazing. However, there are a number of upcoming titles that I am very interested in getting.
Quote:and I'm not really sold on the touch screen technology. I won't deny that it's innovative and different, but I've played the Metroid demo several times, and none of the control schemes are intuitive at all.
Obviously for some games it isn't going to be the best use of the technology, but games like Feel the Magic make good use of it and it's just a blast to play. Wario Ware looks to continue that trend, along with the new Kirby and Yoshi games.
Quote:You'd think they'd have learned from the failures of the E-Reader, Virtual Boy, GC/GBA link, and a dozen others (coming soon: DK Bongos!).
Those are all more or less failures, yes, but I'd hardly lump the DS in with them.
PSP sales success yes financial success I doubt it. Sony seemed to think they would magically change the game tie ratio to that of consoles. While consoles typically sell 4+ games per systems sold handhelds typically sell about 1 game per system sold. Sony selling the PSP for 200$ is impossible without large losses. They're applying console sales tactics to handhelds.
And for each failure there is a success... and/or a lesson... would you rather that Nintendo hadn't tried bold moves or innovations like introducing a console at the lowest point console gaming has ever seen, the crosspad, mini analog sticks, four controllers on a console, an affordable portable system, etc... I think you get the point... you can focus on Nintendo's innovations that were failures but at least as often they have been successes.
Oh, and as for lessons from its past moves, should Nintendo take the 64DD's failure as an indictment on online-supporting consoles? Because that's certainly one possible lesson from the thing... the point is that it is not as simple as 'Nintendo's love for innovation is stupid and they should do what is popular'. That is not necessarially always true and Nintendo's innovations, whether they succeed or fail, lead to games that are distinctive, different, and fun -- which is clearly Nintendo's goal.
Now, it is a problem that they ignore the Western market and are focusing all their policies (and the innovations in recent years), but the results we get are good... I do not wish at all for Nintendo to restrict their search for innovation. It's one of their most unique qualities these days. Yes, some change would be good, and more recognition of what sells games in the Western world (and badly needed at Nintendo!), but I'd think of that as more something where they should be giving more power to their western first-party developers (and/or creating new ones) to make such things, not a case where I want Nintendo in Japan to dramatically change. In many ways I'd take interesting products that are innovative and fun over more of the same... and so would most other Nintendo fans. Yes, Nintendo fans aren't the majority anymore, and Nintendo's efforts to increase their mainstream presence in Japan seem to often have the opposite effect here. But that isn't NCL's fault... not giving their overseas subsidiaries enough latitude to do what they know would be better for their market (within limits, and under their overall control!) is.
PSP sales, versus DS sales... given the PSP shortages it's hard to compare, but it is obvious that the DS has gotten a nice boost from its availability. I'd like to think that that will carry over into more success for the system than the PSP has... but yes, it needs a better software lineup. It's definitely somewhat lacking right now and with the PSP doing well it should have a better one. The hardware itsself looks great though, with the exception of no analog...
Haha, but of course it's outselling the DS. I've been telling you guys for years that the PSP would do very well, and of course you fanboys claimed that it would be impossible.
Just wait until the U.S. launch.
I hope you punks are preparing to admit that you were wrong. Because yet again I will be proven right.
Hahaha, how I'd hate to be you. I would soooo hate me if I were some of you guys. Aaaahh... it's nice being right so often. Best part is rubbing it in!
Uh...so you're glad that you were right about the PSP? *Weirded Out!*
Anyway, I'd hardly call this a GRAND ACOMPLISHMENT. The PSP outsold the DS by about 25,000 units in one week. If you're keeping count the DS's total lead is still about 1 million in Japan. If in the coming weeks, the PSP sells more and DS sells less, then you'll have a point.
Hey now, I only said it could very well do well if the market for such super expensive handhelds (and honestly the DS isn't that super expensive come to think of it) was there, which it seems it is, by a lot.
Oh okay, so it's just in total sales in one week where it surpassed it and Nintendo still has a massive lead... Okay, maybe it is still too soon to say much more than the PSP is doing better than previous non-Nintendo handhelds...
Okay, back to "wait and see".
A Black Falcon Wrote:And for each failure there is a success... and/or a lesson... would you rather that Nintendo hadn't tried bold moves or innovations like introducing a console at the lowest point console gaming has ever seen, the crosspad, mini analog sticks, four controllers on a console, an affordable portable system, etc... I think you get the point... you can focus on Nintendo's innovations that were failures but at least as often they have been successes.
Oh, and as for lessons from its past moves, should Nintendo take the 64DD's failure as an indictment on online-supporting consoles? Because that's certainly one possible lesson from the thing... the point is that it is not as simple as 'Nintendo's love for innovation is stupid and they should do what is popular'. That is not necessarially always true and Nintendo's innovations, whether they succeed or fail, lead to games that are distinctive, different, and fun -- which is clearly Nintendo's goal.
Yes, but there is a big difference in what you mention... those successful innovations were never touted by Nintendo as items that would 'totally change the way games are played', which is a tagline that accompanies practically every new Nintendo invention.
More importantly, those successful creations DID change the way games were played. They were innovations that served a purpose, as opposed to innovations made for the mere sake of being able to say "Look, I'm innovative!". That's not real innovation. Innovation is not simply creating something new and different, but creating something new and different that actually has an impact on its target audience. I can't really think of anything in a very long time that would apply.
During the life of the GameCube, Nintendo touted their innovations far more than ever before. GameCube was supposed to revolutionize videogaming as we knew it, and offer experiences impossible to duplicate on Xbox and PS2. The sad fact is that GameCube was not innovative in the least. In fact, the machine was behind the times in several ways (original memory cards were way too small, proprietary media is no longer advantageous, and of course, the lack of online gaming). The GBA, great machine that it is, saw no real innovation. Many of its most popular games were SNES ports.
Anyway, my point is, I don't find anything wrong with Nintendo wanting to innovate, but only if these innovations serve a purpose. I mean, did anyone for even a minute think the E-Reader was going to be a success?
Quote:Yes, but there is a big difference in what you mention... those successful innovations were never touted by Nintendo as items that would 'totally change the way games are played', which is a tagline that accompanies practically every new Nintendo invention.
If you think that, you must have missed the launch of the N64...
Quote:Hahaha, how I'd hate to be you. I would soooo hate me if I were some of you guys. Aaaahh... it's nice being right so often. Best part is rubbing it in!
And to think that once apon a time I wondered why people find you so annoying... glad that once again you can clear that up for us.
Quote:More importantly, those successful creations DID change the way games were played. They were innovations that served a purpose, as opposed to innovations made for the mere sake of being able to say "Look, I'm innovative!". That's not real innovation. Innovation is not simply creating something new and different, but creating something new and different that actually has an impact on its target audience. I can't really think of anything in a very long time that would apply.
You only say this because they succeeded. Had the 64DD succeeded you'd say that about that. If R.O.B. had succeeded you'd be saying that robot accessories are of course a natural kind of controller. Etc. Nintendo tries a lot of things. Pretty much all were good ideas. Most work. Some are more popular than others.
Quote:During the life of the GameCube, Nintendo touted their innovations far more than ever before. GameCube was supposed to revolutionize videogaming as we knew it, and offer experiences impossible to duplicate on Xbox and PS2. The sad fact is that GameCube was not innovative in the least. In fact, the machine was behind the times in several ways (original memory cards were way too small, proprietary media is no longer advantageous, and of course, the lack of online gaming). The GBA, great machine that it is, saw no real innovation. Many of its most popular games were SNES ports.
Because of how they perceive the Japanese gaming market to be in a downward spiral... and they have something of a point. Sequelitis is rampant, less originality, etc... and Nintendo has been trying to change that. Has it worked? Yeah, somewhat. It's certainly established them as different and that is what they want. The main problem isn't that, it's that they don't have an equivilant understanding of the American market and don't let the people who do have a free enough rein.
Quote:Anyway, my point is, I don't find anything wrong with Nintendo wanting to innovate, but only if these innovations serve a purpose. I mean, did anyone for even a minute think the E-Reader was going to be a success?
It could have done better than it did... it was kind of flawed, because of how you'd have to rescan games every time, no save, etc, but it was an interesting idea at least. Didn't hurt Nintendo much to try.
ROB... That was such a stupid device... It basically said "what if instead of a gameplay feature was in the game, it was a mechanical attribute that occured outside of it, next to you, but honestly that attribute is not something you interact with except via the controller anyway so it really doesn't make any real difference".
Eh, I'm into this string now.
ABF: I got next!
Weltall: No way! I got next!
A Black Falcon Wrote:You only say this because they succeeded. Had the 64DD succeeded you'd say that about that. If R.O.B. had succeeded you'd be saying that robot accessories are of course a natural kind of controller. Etc. Nintendo tries a lot of things. Pretty much all were good ideas. Most work. Some are more popular than others.
Of course I say it because they succeeded. The success of an idea is not measured merely by it's own merit, but also by how it's applied. When you create something new, you must also present a valid reason for it to exist, a valid application. There are plenty of great ideas out there that never come to fruition because while they sound really cool, they are either pointless or lack practicality.
With all of Nintendo's successful contrivances, you'll almost always find some sort of accompanying application. The analog stick had Mario 64, the Zapper had Duck Hunt... and the others had broad applications. Now, having a good application isn't the only necessary ingredient, price, ease of use, practicality, and so forth also count. The failures always lack one or more of these. [/QUOTE]
GR Wrote:Uh...so you're glad that you were right about the PSP? *Weirded Out!*
This was never about what I personally wanted, it was about what I
knew would happen. And if Sony succeeds it's largely going to be because of Nintendo's failure. The DS has potential, but so far Nintendo has yet to prove that it's a must-have system. None of their games really take advantage of the hardware, and very few third-party games use the touch screen for anything more than a stupid map.
Quote:Anyway, I'd hardly call this a GRAND ACOMPLISHMENT. The PSP outsold the DS by about 25,000 units in one week. If you're keeping count the DS's total lead is still about 1 million in Japan. If in the coming weeks, the PSP sells more and DS sells less, then you'll have a point.
Keep in mind that there have been PSP shortages since launch, so this IS a pretty damn big accomplishment.
ABF Wrote:And to think that once apon a time I wondered why people find you so annoying... glad that once again you can clear that up for us.
Haha, nobody likes the guy who's always right, and always rubs that in. With you guys though... it's especially fun to rub it in. Especially you, ABF, since you can
NEVER admit when you are wrong, even when everyone knows that you are, including yourself.
Also I agree with Ryan here. Nintendo failed to innovate with the Gamecube, instead giving us failed gimmicks that offered nothing but headaches for us gamers. The E-Reader, connectivity. Those were Nintendo's two big innovations this gen, and they both failed miserably. And their software... as much as I love my GC games... were mostly updates to N64 ones. Very few original titles. There's what, Pikmin? Great two games, but not enough.
And the DS... it's a cool system with a
ton of potential (I'd do anything to develop for it... more than any other system, in fact), but what has Nintendo delivered so far? An ancient N64 port with lackluster controls. ... YAY! There are a few games that use the system's features well, but none of them are killer-apps. None of them are games that people are going to go "Woah I need to get a DS!". THAT is what Nintendo needs, and by the time they deliver such a game it may be too late. The PSP might be all that gamers want.
The Revolution better deliver, and it better be insane. It better make people realize that they
have to have one because the games look so awesomely unique. Otherwise... this may very well be the end of Nintendo as a console manufacturer.
Quote:Of course I say it because they succeeded. The success of an idea is not measured merely by it's own merit, but also by how it's applied. When you create something new, you must also present a valid reason for it to exist, a valid application. There are plenty of great ideas out there that never come to fruition because while they sound really cool, they are either pointless or lack practicality.
With all of Nintendo's successful contrivances, you'll almost always find some sort of accompanying application. The analog stick had Mario 64, the Zapper had Duck Hunt... and the others had broad applications. Now, having a good application isn't the only necessary ingredient, price, ease of use, practicality, and so forth also count. The failures always lack one or more of these.
By that standard some of the things you said "failed" were successes. Connectivity, for instance -- what would Pac-Man Vs., FF: CC, and Zelda: FSA be but successes? And as for the bongos, that's only meant to work with a few games, but from what we have seen those games (Donkey Konga and King of Swing) are pretty good... Yes, there is less good to say about the Virtual Boy and E-Reader (especially the E-Reader, because at least the Virtual Boy was a good idea that went wrong), but hey, noone's perfect. Nintendo's just better than most. :)
My point is that you are looking back and saying 'of course the things that were widely successful had valid reasons to exist and the ones that failed did not'. This is only even vaguely mentionable IN RETROSPECT! That is, when Nintendo was making any of these things of course they thought that it'd be successful! Yes, there were warning signs for some of the failed things. But most of them could have done a lot better than they did had circumstances been different. Or in short, your line of reasoning is flawed.
Oh yeah, and as far as Nintendo goes is the Zapper a success either? Yes, it had Duck Hunt, but almost no OTHER NES games worth mentioning supported the thing... is success measured by one game? If so connectivity would also be a big success, given that it has two or three games that show off admirably what it can be when it is used well.
Now, you do say that other elements are responsible too, and that is true. Connectivity? Price was the big killer I think. The VB failed several tests. But still... Nintendo has taken risks which looked to most people like certain failures before only to have them pay off hansomely, so saying that just because it potentially has some problem that might limit its success, while true, does not necessarially relate to how successful the peripheral actually will be. Certain successes have failed and certain failures have succeeded before. Nintendo isn't sure which ones will be which so they keep trying. And they should.
I don't think anyone besides you ever thought that connectivity and the e-reader were going to be successes. They never sounded that great, and for a reason. Nintendo seriously dropped the ball with both of them.
Connectivity was never going to work as a replacement for internet play, of course, but as an interesting different kind of controls for some games? Sure. The problem isn't the idea, it's how Nintendo tried to use it to do more than it could have.
It worked great in Four Swords, but even then you could have had little windows pop up on the tv screen. It would have removed that privacy aspect--but that was never really important to begin with--and it would have let people play the game without having to own GBA's. The game sold like crap (for a Zelda title) because of connectivity.
And Nintendo did sort of try to make it out as a replacement for online gaming. Remember Miyamoto's comments from e3 '03? About how connectivity is better than online, blah blah blah.
Quote:And Nintendo did sort of try to make it out as a replacement for online gaming. Remember Miyamoto's comments from e3 '03? About how connectivity is better than online, blah blah blah.
... what, exactly, are you replying to here? It certainly doesn't seem to have much to do with much of anything I've ever said about connectivity, that's for sure... of course that's true! That's exactly what I was talking about in my last post or two!
Quote:It worked great in Four Swords, but even then you could have had little windows pop up on the tv screen. It would have removed that privacy aspect--but that was never really important to begin with--and it would have let people play the game without having to own GBA's. The game sold like crap (for a Zelda title) because of connectivity.
The problem with connectivity was the price to have a full setup. It was a good idea for some games, but the price problem... it's just too expensive to be practical most of the time. But I've played FFCC and FSA and they're pretty fun games, and I can see how the GBA helps...
Quote:... what, exactly, are you replying to here? It certainly doesn't seem to have much to do with much of anything I've ever said about connectivity, that's for sure... of course that's true! That's exactly what I was talking about in my last post or two!
Ah, you see... for a second there I thought you said that Nintendo never said that it was a replacement for online gaming.
I'm doing like ten things at once at work here, so give me a break.
Quote:The problem with connectivity was the price to have a full setup. It was a good idea for some games, but the price problem... it's just too expensive to be practical most of the time. But I've played FFCC and FSA and they're pretty fun games, and I can see how the GBA helps...
Yeah...
I thought I made it pretty clear that I was saying that the concept was good but over-reliance on an idea with limited applications and their attempts to have it replace internet gaming, which it never could have done, caused it to be seen as a failure.
Your wording coupled with me not totally concentrating on your sentence made it sound different.
A Black Falcon Wrote:By that standard some of the things you said "failed" were successes. Connectivity, for instance -- what would Pac-Man Vs., FF: CC, and Zelda: FSA be but successes? And as for the bongos, that's only meant to work with a few games, but from what we have seen those games (Donkey Konga and King of Swing) are pretty good... Yes, there is less good to say about the Virtual Boy and E-Reader (especially the E-Reader, because at least the Virtual Boy was a good idea that went wrong), but hey, noone's perfect. Nintendo's just better than most. :)
If something is supposed to be 'revolutionary', or even just a major selling point, it has to work with more than a handful of games in three years. Didn't the GBA/GC wire come out in 2002? And there are how many successful games to show for it? Does it even average to two per year for the revolutionary item?
The bongos... I'm sorry, that's going to be another one that no one will remember in five years.
Quote:My point is that you are looking back and saying 'of course the things that were widely successful had valid reasons to exist and the ones that failed did not'. This is only even vaguely mentionable IN RETROSPECT! That is, when Nintendo was making any of these things of course they thought that it'd be successful! Yes, there were warning signs for some of the failed things. But most of them could have done a lot better than they did had circumstances been different. Or in short, your line of reasoning is flawed.
You misunderstand. Most ideas have a good chance at succeeding. But some don't. I knew the E-Reader wouldn't, because it was too flawed. I remember saying so when it first came out, especially after I heard that some games would require it to unlock everything. It was a scam. Doomed.
As for the rest, of COURSE it's only mentionable in retrospect. That's why I'm saying it now. Nintendo would always think they had a chance to succeed, the problem lies in how often they do not take that chance. How often they misread the market (I bet E-Reader did quite a bit better in Japan). Everyone sees better in retrospect. I'm not trying to say that in every case, I could have told you beforehand that they were doomed.
Quote:Oh yeah, and as far as Nintendo goes is the Zapper a success either? Yes, it had Duck Hunt, but almost no OTHER NES games worth mentioning supported the thing... is success measured by one game? If so connectivity would also be a big success, given that it has two or three games that show off admirably what it can be when it is used well.
Yes, because unlike the connector, the Zapper was free. If I get a peripheral for free, I am far less discriminating on how it measured up. Connectivity, on the other hand, requires a substantial investment. You have to have both GBA and GC, and in some cases, copies of certain games for both machines PLUS the wire. To say nothing of the incessant hype about connectivity from Nintendo. So yes, my standards and expectations for it are going to be far greater.
Quote:Now, you do say that other elements are responsible too, and that is true. Connectivity? Price was the big killer I think. The VB failed several tests. But still... Nintendo has taken risks which looked to most people like certain failures before only to have them pay off hansomely, so saying that just because it potentially has some problem that might limit its success, while true, does not necessarially relate to how successful the peripheral actually will be. Certain successes have failed and certain failures have succeeded before. Nintendo isn't sure which ones will be which so they keep trying. And they should.
Nintendo should, with all its experience, have a pretty good understanding of the market. Their most surprising enterprises were in their early days (NES and Game Boy, both newcomers in unproven markets). It was a different market then, and in those days Nintendo had their fingers right on the pulse. Sony changed things tremendously, and one still gets the impression that Nintendo's suffering from shell-shock even after all these years. New and exciting gimmicks aren't really something that should be a focus when your market share and identity are slipping by the day to strong competitors.
Seriously, if so many forum-goers realized that the E-Reader and connectivity were stupid then so should have Nintendo. This is just one example of how out of touch they are with the market in some respects. Sad, but true.
Quote:If something is supposed to be 'revolutionary', or even just a major selling point, it has to work with more than a handful of games in three years. Didn't the GBA/GC wire come out in 2002? And there are how many successful games to show for it? Does it even average to two per year for the revolutionary item?
The bongos... I'm sorry, that's going to be another one that no one will remember in five years.
The bongos will be remembered for doing what they were meant to: Bringing music games to Gamecube. Oh, and an innovative platformer... it's not like this is a console-shaping addon, any more than the dance pad is for PS2 or X-Box...
Oh, and as for success, as I said by that standard the Zapper fails. Yes, connectivity does too, and the E-Reader, and probably the Virtual Boy (given that overall it managed to get about 15 released games)... but I would use more than just that as the standards. Really, what matters is if it accomplished what Nintendo wanted of it and if it was a good addon. Connectivity clearly failed Nintendo's expectations, because those expectations were unrealistic, but it was a good addon that had some pretty good games, so I wouldn't call it a total failure... not when good products were released that used it! Very few addons are truly TOTALLY worthless -- even the Virtual Boy had a couple of good games...
Yes, connectivity took a long time to get going and never really succeeded. The public just never 'got' the idea... I think that it could have worked fine if Nintendo had presented it as an alternative method of playing these games, though, with the main one online... sure, it might not be hugely more successful, but it probably never could have been much more successful than it was... okay, it could have been a bit more successful. But it never could have achieved Nintendo's goal of making people forget about online play.
I mean, can you imagine how many units FSA could have sold if it was online?
Quote:You misunderstand. Most ideas have a good chance at succeeding. But some don't. I knew the E-Reader wouldn't, because it was too flawed. I remember saying so when it first came out, especially after I heard that some games would require it to unlock everything. It was a scam. Doomed.
As for the rest, of COURSE it's only mentionable in retrospect. That's why I'm saying it now. Nintendo would always think they had a chance to succeed, the problem lies in how often they do not take that chance. How often they misread the market (I bet E-Reader did quite a bit better in Japan). Everyone sees better in retrospect. I'm not trying to say that in every case, I could have told you beforehand that they were doomed.
Nintendo doesn't really make ANYTHING with the Western market in mind, except perhaps the new Metroid games... understand that and their business decisions make a LOT more sense... and most of the things we are discussing don't look as bad. The Virtual Boy does, but yeah, I'd bet the E-Reader did better there... I know card-scan games have done well there before. NOA probably had no choice but to release it knowing it probably wouldn't catch on. Connectivity? I don't know. Perhaps, but I don't know how it did there... but the point is that it's not so much misreading the market as it is trying to read a market that does not exist here in the US and basing their business decisions upon that. Yes, once in a while it is just a plain bad idea from any angle, like the Virtual Boy, (and, we'd say from our perspective, the E-Reader) but not often.
Quote:Yes, because unlike the connector, the Zapper was free. If I get a peripheral for free, I am far less discriminating on how it measured up. Connectivity, on the other hand, requires a substantial investment. You have to have both GBA and GC, and in some cases, copies of certain games for both machines PLUS the wire. To say nothing of the incessant hype about connectivity from Nintendo. So yes, my standards and expectations for it are going to be far greater.
What Nintendo really should have done is just put a screen in their controller like the Dreamcast had... :)
Quote:Seriously, if so many forum-goers realized that the E-Reader and connectivity were stupid then so should have Nintendo. This is just one example of how out of touch they are with the market in some respects. Sad, but true.
I don't think they even try to understand public opinion anymore... remember all those comments about them knowing what people want more than people know themselves?
My point is that Nintendo was off their rocker to believe that connectivity and the E-Reader were anything more than so-so gimmicks that would work for a couple of games. E3 2003 was almost ENTIRELY about connectivity for Nintendo. They were completely nuts.
That much is true. What I wonder is how much NOA thought it would work here... they acted like it would work, but did NOA actually believe it? I don't know, it seems so obvious that the E-Reader would never be a success here and that connectivity was overhyped... NCL has no clue about the American market, but what about NOA...
I wouldn't even group the e-reader with the connectivity. The e-reader was the worst idea they ever had. What does it do exactly? Nothing that can't be done in better ways! I mean, first thought I had reading about the device was "wait, we are going BACK to punch cards?".
It did some neat things with Mario 3. But those were things that should have been included in the cart.
I think this is the third week in a row that the DS has sold less than the PSP, definitely a bad sign for Nintendo. Hopefully some of their upcoming games will change the tide.
What I don't understand is how two DS games can be in the top ten while no PSP games are and yet the PSP still sells more. Do people even care whether a system even plays games anymore?
I thought I read something about PSP software selling better than DS software as well. Perhaps that changed this week.
I can't remember any PSP games being in the top ten.
Quote:Two PSP titles also make it into the top ten - Hot Shots Golf Portable at number eight and Dynasty Warriors at number ten - but how much of a sales boost this represents is tough to judge, given that overall software sales in Japan dropped by over 40 per cent this week.
Hmm...well there aren't any for the week you linked too and I know the DS games have been selling better than the PSP's.
I think I read a report on ign or something about more PSP games being sold per unit than the DS.
Quote:I think I read a report on ign or something about more PSP games being sold per unit than the DS.
I've been watching the charts since the PSP came out and the DS has consistantly had games in the top, while the PSP hasn't. The DS still has an overall lead on the PSP, so maybe that makes difference. *shrugs*
Yeah, games-per-unit isn't the same as game sales so given the lead the DS has in sales, the PSP could have a bit better per-hardware-unit ratio while also having noticably lower total sales.
Quote:I've been watching the charts since the PSP came out and the DS has consistantly had games in the top, while the PSP hasn't. The DS still has an overall lead on the PSP, so maybe that makes difference. *shrugs*
Then why didn't you know about Hot Shots Golf being in the top ten, even though Hudson posted that information in this very thread?
And ABF, I'm only happy about proving you guys wrong for the ten billionth time. And if Nintendo is behind Sony it is their own damn fault for not releasing enough good DS games.
They should have had a better launch lineup, but I'm not blaming them for not having more stuff out at this time of year. Late winter and spring aren't common times for many great games to come out...
Mario 64 is the only game kind of worth getting at full price.
Until tuesday, when Wario Ware comes out. WOO!
Quote:Then why didn't you know about Hot Shots Golf being in the top ten, even though Hudson posted that information in this very thread?
I guess that one just slipped my mind.
It was easy to predict that given Nintendo's half ass strategy launching the DS that the DS was bound to loose to the PSP in the long run. Sigh... guess as Yamauchi said, if they fail console gaming, they'll move to PC, so guess we'll be playing Nintendo PC games in the future soon, but at least at that point online gaming will not be an issue for Nintendo.
They haven't exactly "failed" at anything yet. Yeah, they're in third place and their position in the handheld market is looking at little shaky, but it's not like they're in the red.
It'll be interesting to see how much of the handheld market that Nintendo now has Sony actually takes... the GBA's greatest strength is in children (and some teenagers) after all, and I don't know how many people in that market will actually get a PSP... among adults the PSP will doubtlessly do well, and the GBA had done better there than the past GBs, but still... Nintendo isn't about to be destroyed just because of the PSP. Their profits well may go down, but the DS is far from a failure, online strategy or not, after all, and the GBA SP is still doing pretty well...
My point exactly. Certainly the trend can't continue indefinitely, but they aren't in any immediate danger of going out of business.