Tendo City

With Minish Cap almost out I thought it would be fun to make another discussion/debate about the Zelda timeline. I'll only touch upon a few things at first, to make clear a few facts about the timelime.

First of all, Minish Cap is the first Zelda game, chronologically-speaking. Eiji Aonuma said so in a fairly recent interview:

Quote:NoE: How does the Minish Cap fit into the Zelda chronology? Is it a prequel to the upcoming The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures on GameCube?

Aonuma: Yes, this title takes place prior to The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures, and tells the secret of the birth of the Four Sword.

Now I bet you're thinking "ok it takes place before FSA, but that doesn't mean that it takes place before all of the other Zelda games." And you'd have a point, but earlier this year Aonuma said in an interview with Game Informer that they consider Four Swords (GBA) to be first Zelda game in the timeline:

Quote:EA: The GBA Four Swords Zelda is what we’re thinking as the oldest tale in the Zelda timeline. With this one on the GameCube being a sequel to that, and taking place sometime after that.

So from these interviews we can safely say that the early timeline goes like this:

Minish Cap
Four Swords
Four Swords Adventures

Unless of course Nintendo changes their minds in the future. ;)

Alright, onto the next bit of info.

We all accept that Link's Awakening takes place after LttP, right? And I know that some of you consider the Oracle games to be "alternate universe" tales and not a part of the real timeline. Well without spoiling too much stuff from Minish Cap, I'm going to provide enough evidence that the Oracle series are indeed cannon.

The fairies that ask for you help in the beginning of each Oracle game are in Minish Cap. You first hear about them in the form of figurines in a shop in Hyrule Town:

Syrup: A wizard who lives in the Minish Woods. She sells magic items with odd powers. She's looking for an apprentice to whom she can teach her mystic spells.

Din: She's looking for a house in Hyrule to move into. She is a famous dancer from the land of Holodrum.

So Holodrum and... that other town... are cannon in the Zelda universe. But there's more! When you get the final ending of the Oracle games, Link sets off in his boat which perfectly blends into the intro of Link's Awakening. See for yourself:





(that black thing is supposed to be a boat)

(excuse the horrible quality of the first picture, but I couldn't find anything better)

It's obvious that Nintendo and Capcom wanted the Oracle games to fit into Zelda chronology and they found the perfect way to blend them into Link's Awakening.

Now argue over the rest of the timeline, and where everything fits. Here's how I think it goes:

Link I
Minish Cap
Four Swords
Four Swords Adventure

Link II
Ocarina of Time
Majora's Mask
New GC Zelda

Link III
Wind Waker

Link IV
Link to the Past
Oracle of Ages/Oracle of Seasons
Link's Awakening

Link V
The Legend of Zelda
Link's Adventure

I'm pretty sure that's how the timeline works, but I might be wrong about some of the Link orders (namely the last two).

Sounds about right... except do we really know which Link the new GC Zelda is going to have in it? I don't think so. And the Oracles and LA placement is somewhat a matter of opinion. I've heard some say that Oracles are not in it at all (as you suggest) but I'd rather think they are... and yes, it does provide the perfect leadin into LA with the ship. It does not mean that they MUST be prequels to LA, but it means that it makes sense to imagine they are... more sense than calling them prequels to any other Zelda games (oh, as for LA, if you remember the LA manual tells the story of how Link, after saving Hyrule or something, was journeying for adventure or enlightenment or something, I forget exactly, and was on his way home when the ship was hit by the storm seen in the intro...).

What really doesn't have a definite place, though, is where Oracles and LA (if you accept that they are linked) go in the timeline. While LttP is the popular place, I've seen them put after Zelda 2, after MM, all by themselves... and since they have very few clues to no as to which Link it is, it's hard to say for sure. LttP is simply the best guess because LA was the next Zelda game after LttP.

That is true, the arrangement is still not certain. But since Minish Cap is cannon, and Minish Cap directly references the Oracle games, the Oracle games are most definitely cannon. That I know for certain.

And come on, just look at the ending of Oracle and the beginning of LA. Capcom and Nintendo went out of their way to make them fit together. They did everything short of saying "HEY! THIS HAPPENS RIGHT BEFORE LA!!" at the end.

Sounds logical, except that I kind of agree with what ABF brought up. We don't really know for sure that Link's Awakening and the Oracle games are the same Link as from LttP. There were characters in Link's Awakening that were in OoT. Otherwise I think everything seems to fit.

Oh I agree that the LttP Link might not be the Oracle/LA Link. But you know, Malon and Talon are also in FSA, so the whole character thing doesn't mean much. :) Perhaps they reincarnate as well or whatever.

I'm sure we've all noticed the resemblance between Talon/Tarin and Mario and Ingo to Luigi. I don't know what that's supposed to mean, but it's pretty cool. You may also notice Malon and Talon wearing Bowser necklaces... not sure if Ingo wears one.

That's just Nintendo sticking Mario into every single game possible. I'm surprised he didn't show up in Resident Evil 4...although I haven't played it yet.

So I guess the issue to debate is... do Oracles and LA come after OoT/MM, LttP, or LoZ/AoL? :)

My guess is LttP.

You know what'd be really cool? If the new GC Zelda takes place after Adventure of Link. That would certainly be a surprise.

But it makes the most sense for it to take place after OoT and before WW. I just think it'd be good to keep what happened before WW (Link not appearing to defeat Gannon) a mystery for a little while longer.

I always assumed that Wind Waker was not in-between OOT and LTTP. LTTP makes heavy mention of the events of OOT, but nothing of the whole world getting flooded and flushed down the toilet.

Honestly though, would it kill them to make a new Zelda game and NOT make it a sequel to the first two?

WW is after OoT/MM, as is obvious in the story. It is before LttP because the events in LttP or LoZ or AoL haven't happened yet. So it is between them. Yes, there are some huge logic gaps to deal with, but you just have to take some things on faith or make up an answer to (how much time between OoT/MM and WW, how much then to LttP, how did Hyrule get flooded and then un-flooded (or did they relocate Hyrule to a new Hyrule and leave the old OoT one flooded?), etc, etc). They aren't thinking of story continuity when they make a Zelda game.

awesome spoiler! i recommend reading it! :D

WW definitely happens after a few hundred years of OoT's story. That's explained in the intro to WW.

In the Oracle games, we see a young Link on Epona traveling to a great temple

(This should be about the time of OoT. in the opening story of WW it says that Link destroyed GANON and sent him in to the Sacred Realm where Gannondorf launched an attack on Hyrule hundreds of years later. But after OoT, Link had adventures in MM and then the Oracle Series where he was litteraly placed in to the Sacred Realm which has no connection to the flow of time in the real world)

In the temple, the Triforce asks Link to prove himself and them dumps him in to a strange new world. A world on the brink of being devoured by a creature named Vaati.

Vaati appears in both Oracle games and the four swords games as 'Ultimate evil'. Now follow me on this one:

Like I said, in the oracle games the Triforce drags you in to a new world. I believe that world is the Sacred Realm (ie: The Golden Land/Dark World from LttP).

In LttP, you defeat GANON and get to touch the Triforce.

This is the second time in the timeline that Link touches the Triforce. (Zelda I he constructs the Triforce of Courage and takes the Triforce of Power from GANON) The fragments of the Triforce in Wind Waker were representations of Link finding his Courage, the Triforce is still in his hand, so the fragments are only in his mind.

You bring the Dark World back to peace; the land of the Golden Power (Triforce). But in the wish that Link made he told the Triforce to make it impossible for an evil force to ever have the Triforce.

Triforce is balance, it granted Link's wish by giving the Triforce of Power to Ganon, Courage to Link and Wisdom to Zelda. From now on, in all history and for all time, the Triforce will no longer be a thing to touch, an actual object. It will be the very spirit of the ones who create balance. Gannondorf, Link and Zelda. Meaning that there is now no way for Gannondorf to take the Triforce. However, Gannondorf knows how to use a very dark magic he was taught since birth some thousands of years ago.

Link and Zelda are not constants. They only exist when evil exists. Gannondorf cannot die, his body can but his evil spirit lives on in the Sacred Realm until he can devise a way to escape the Sacred Realm and take a body. hence, Gannondorf (evil) is a constant.

Every 100 years in the Gerudo, a male is born. When these males are born as Kings to the Gerudo. But every 500 years it is prophecy that a male will be born who is evil, an evil king. That male will be outcasted by the Gerudo and any one who follows him will be treated to the same fate.

I believe it is every 500 years that Gannondorf, through the veil of the Sacred Realm, tricks an evil Gerudo male and takes his body as his own. This is done through dark magic that was taught to Gannondorf by his first mother Koume and Kotake (who is actually one person), who were also outcasted by the Gerudo thousands of years ago. They learned how to use souls to gain immortality and taught Gannondorf how to cheat death.

(Koume and Kotake, no match for the Master sword, the sword of evil's bane, was killed by the hand of Link)

So we now have two world's we're dealing with. The ancient world of Hyrule that is thousands of years old and the world of the Sacred Realm that is as old as time itself.

I believe that when Gannondorf is destroyed by Link every 500 years or so, Gannon's spirit flees in to the Sacred Realm to bide his time and watch until a suitable body comes along. But while Gannondorf is in the Sacred Realm he exists as Vaati, the evil spirit of the Sacred Realm. As Vaati, he tries to trick people in to giving him power so that he can escape the Sacred Realm.

This would mean that the following stories take place in the Sacred Realm:

Minish Cap

Oracle of Ages / Seasons

LttP (half the story takes place in the Dark World, which is the Sacred Realm turned by Ganon's power)

Wind Waker (Gannondorf no longer needs to take the form of Vaati since in OoT Zelda and Link litteraly put Gannondorf's body and spirit there, killing only GANON's body)

Link's Awakening ('Nightmare' is Vaati, the Windfish is Courage, Link must awaken the Windfish thus "Link's Awakening")

And now, all the pieces of the story make much more sense. But I have no idea what's going to happen in Minish Cap or the new Zelda for GC. Whatever happens in those games could change everything.

Quote:They aren't thinking of story continuity when they make a Zelda game.

That's not true any longer, not since Aonuma was put in charge of the series. The man really cares for story, which is evident with Wind Waker. He has directly connected one Zelda game to another (WW to OoT), something that hasn't really been done before with the series. It's always been vague, distant connections. And he's said that he wants to make sense of the story, which is why I think the new GC Zelda with fill in some more gaps.


That's an interesting theory lazy, but it doesn't quite add up.

FSA explains how the dark world was created, and Minish Cap takes place before FSA. Minish Cap is the first Zelda in the timeline according to Eiji Aonuma. The game "explains how Link got his famous hat". If it were just in the sacred realm then the regular realm people wouldn't know anything about how that Link looks and therefore the whole getting his famous hat thing would not make any sense if it's just for future sacred realm Links (which, even if it were true, also does not make sense). In WW it's explained that for generations people dress up their little boys in green clothing when they reach a certain age, because that's how the last hero looked. It may just apply to WW, but I think Nintendo was basically stating that that's why all of the Links throughout the ages looked the same. Whether it was done by the local townsfolk or a sage or whatever, Link has a very specific look for a reason (other than the real-world one). And Minish Cap is supposed to tell the tale of the first Link (unless they decide to make yet another prequel, lol) who was the first savior and the one that all future Links took their wardrobe from. Something like that. I could be wrong about the whole costume thing, but it does make sense if you ignore some logical inconsistencies (which are everywhere in the series). One thing for certain though is that Minish Cap takes place before all of the other Zeldas, and making it take place in the sacred realm makes little sense.

After reading your post I remembered something.

Do you remember in OoT when we watched as Farore, Din and Nayru created the world? The 3 Godesses formed Hyrule with balance and then left the worldy plain to return to the heavens. When they left, at the exact point that they left this world, they created the Triforce.

Din, with her powerful arms sculpted the land...

Nayru gave life to the world...

Farore, poured her wisdom in to the life...

Power, Courage and Wisdom.

But look at the 3 Godesses, they are pure gold (like the Triforce itself), their ears are pointed, and they are dressed in tunics with a long pointy hat. The Godesses created all life, but the Hyrulians are their 'chosen people' and Link is their sword and shield to combat evil; The Godesses courage. Zelda is their leader and guidance; Their wisdom. And Gannondorf is their sculptor, the one who brings change through his power.

The Godesses are litteraly Link's mother as he has no blood ties except to himself as he appears and disappears through out history. So it would make sense that the very first story would take place in the Sacred Realm, as it would be his true birthplace.

And doesn't FSA show that the Dark World was once the Golden Land which existed "beyond the veil of our world"?

Quote:But look at the 3 Godesses, they are pure gold (like the Triforce itself), their ears are pointed, and they are dressed in tunics with a long pointy hat. The Godesses created all life, but the Hyrulians are their 'chosen people' and Link is their sword and shield to combat evil; The Godesses courage. Zelda is their leader and guidance; Their wisdom. And Gannondorf is their sculptor, the one who brings change through his power.

The Godesses are litteraly Link's mother as he has no blood ties except to himself as he appears and disappears through out history. So it would make sense that the very first story would take place in the Sacred Realm, as it would be his true birthplace.

That sounds cool, but where did you get that from (especially that part about Link having no blood ties)? Nothing in any of the Zelda games described such things in that much detail. Remember when you said that you like to fill in the story details when you play Zelda? Perhaps that's why you have this rich explanation. :)

Quote:And doesn't FSA show that the Dark World was once the Golden Land which existed "beyond the veil of our world"?

I forgot, which is why I'm playing through it again with some friends. That game is too much damn fun.

Yeah it is, I just wish I knew more people with GBA's.

That info about Link having no blood ties is from a Gossip Stone in OoT. I think it's the one behind the Great Deku Stree, but that might be the one that talks about Gannondorf's horse, I forget. But it basically said that the Hero has no family and no relatives.

In LttP, you have an uncle. But in most cultures (including Japanese and American/western), a guardian in replace of parents, or friends of the parents (a god father or mother) is commonly refered to as an uncle or aunt.

The part about the Godesses was explained in a cut scene and through Gossip Stones.

You need the Mask of Truth to read Gossip Stones. If you dont know what i'm talking about, it's those smooth rocks that look like gravemarkers with the symbol of the Sheikah on them.

Quote:That info about Link having no blood ties is from a Gossip Stone in OoT. I think it's the one behind the Great Deku Stree, but that might be the one that talks about Gannondorf's horse, I forget. But it basically said that the Hero has no family and no relatives.

Really? I don't remember seeing that... think you could find an exact quote?

Quote:In LttP, you have an uncle. But in most cultures (including Japanese and American/western), a guardian in replace of parents, or friends of the parents (a god father or mother) is commonly refered to as an uncle or aunt.

Yeah I know, but I don't remember reading anything about Link not having parents. Though I guess that makes sense...

Quote:The part about the Godesses was explained in a cut scene and through Gossip Stones.

The cut scene explains the basis for your more complex explanation, but do the gossip stones really mention all of that other stuff, like Gannondorf being the sculptor?

Quote:You need the Mask of Truth to read Gossip Stones. If you dont know what i'm talking about, it's those smooth rocks that look like gravemarkers with the symbol of the Sheikah on them.

Yeah I know what you're talking about, but it's been a while since I played OoT and I don't remember that stuff you're referring to.

Gannondorf being 'the sculptor' is a reference to the cut scene's narration of 'Din sculpting the land.' I just put 2 and 2 together. Link 'Gives us life' and Zelda 'Pours her wisdom in to that life'.

I forget which Gossip Stones to talk to, there's so many in the whole game. GameFAQ's might have a list.

Oh, and one of the Gossip Stones said "A woman was found in the forest holding a baby. The Kokiri found the dying woman who told the forest elves "Please watch this over this child". The Kokiri raised the baby as if it were one of their own when in fact it was Link."

Then, the baby Deku Tree tells you that you're not a Kokiri, you're a Hylian.

The woman must have been either the one who found the baby, or the woman that gave birth to Link in an immaculate conception. She could have been from any race... it would be really awesome if that 'woman' was a Gerudo. But it should be noted that there is no Queen of Hyrule in any story, only a king with his daughter, Princess Zelda.

Lazy, you have an interesting theory that fills in the gaps here, but the problem is that it's mostly just your theory, not the official one... I don't know if there even ARE official explanations for a lot of these things, really.

Link... it seems to me that the simplest explanation is the correct one: Link is as Nintendo has said the eternal spirit of the good guys like Ganon is for the bad. It's not a really complex philosophical or sprititual basis, I think... there is some, but as much as you say? I don't know about that. Still, there are connections that can obviously be made between spirits and the characters... Power/Courage/Wisdom as attributes of the goddesses and of Ganon, Link, and Zelda makes sense of course. But going from there to saying that Link is actually a child of a deity? I don't think so. Sure, it is strange that so many people who are so similar keep appearing in the Zelda games if you look at it historically -- so many Zeldas and Links? It's a case of developers wanting to use the same or similar characters without really thinking of the overall implications of their choices... which requires implausible explanations like the one they used to explain why there are so many Zeldas (the missing princess story which led to all future royal princesses being called Zelda... and there is no story explaining why there keep being heros named Link as far as I know...). Or no explanation at all, like they have done for some things, unfortunately. But for Nintendo at this point it's tough... even if they wanted to really clear up the story (and I am not convinced at all that they care, given their 'storytelling isn't that important' stance in so many of their games) it'd be hard to given how convoluted and at times contradictory they are and how many implausible explanations would be required... still, I'd love to see them do it. It'd be nice. :)

Lazy, your theories are interesting but I just don't see Nintendo doing something so complicated. If anything they're going to want to simplify the story and not delve too deeply into certain aspects of it.

And again ABF, Nintendo may say that story isn't important, but two of their biggest producers do believe that story is important. Those two people are Yoshio Sakamoto (Metroid) and Eiji Aonuma. Metroid Fusion had a very deep story for a sidescrolling shooter, and Wind Waker had by far the most comprehensive Zelda story ever. In most of his interviews Aonuma has mentioned story, chronology, and trying to make the series fit together as a whole. Wait until the new Zelda comes out; I doubt we will be dissapointed in that respect.

But even in Wind Waker there are big gaps... how did Ganondorf return? Where is the new Hyrule (I guess you could say 'leave it for the sequel'...)? How did it flood? And how about scale... things seem a bit farther apart in WW than they were in OoT... :)... but the Ganon thing is the biggest issue... Oh yeah, and species... I mean, a species transformed (the zoras into bird-people, right?)... wouldn't that take a really long time? Yes, they don't say how long after OoT this happens, but still... the only 'explanation' I can think of is 'the gods transformed them'. :)

You didn't even finish the game, did you? They explain most of that stuff towards the end.

:screwy:

You've said that before and it's still clear that not all of it was explained.

What on earth are you talking about. They explain almost all of that (including the flooding part), and what they don't explain is for a very good reason (it'll be told in future Zelda titles).

Seriously man, this is really sad. You're always complaining about plot holes in games that you never finished. PERHAPS THEY'RE NOT ACTUALLY PLOT HOLES AND THEY ACTUALLY GET EXPLAINED LATER ON IN THE GAMES.

:screwy:

So why have other people here also complained about the Ganon thing? Yeah, I thought so.

Like who?

I just realized that it was in OoT where the Triforce would be in the soul of the 3 that hold balance.

OB1, why would you think that Nintendo "Wouldn't get that complicated"? There's tons of story packed in to OoT, MM and WW but it's not on the forefront of the video game. you have to look for it; Litteraly. In OoT, you only get the whole story by listening to the Gossip Stones, in MM you need to finish every single Mask-quest and side-quest and in WW you need to earn every single statue for your gallery and all the Heart Pieces. Only then will you see the entire context.

Nintendo wouldn't get that complicated? Am I mistaken or are we talking about the same series of games?

In Zelda 2 we're taught about LttP's story line hundreds of years in the future and in LttP we're told how OoT ends since OoT happened thousands of years before LttP:

Long ago in a Hyrule kingdom, legends were told of a Golden Power. But that power lay hidden beyond the reach of men in a Sacred Realm. One day, that doorway suddenly opened and the people fought to enter the Sacred Realm and fought to aqcuire the Golden Power.

(In OoT: Link opened the portal to the Sacred Realm by taking the Master Sword when he was only 10. The Goddesses kept him in the Sacred Realm for 7 years until he was old enough to become Link, Hero of Time and weild the Master Sword. With the Realm open, anyone could venture in to it)

But all who entered never returned and the Sacred Realm was overcome with a dark magic and the portal now spewed forth evil in to the world. The King ordered 7 Sages to seal the gate and many lives were lost to protect the sages. But the sages were able to cast the spell and sealed the doorway to the sacred realm forever, or so they had hoped.

(in OoT: For seven years the portal was open and Gannondorf touched the Triforce and wished for ultimate Power and control of the world, he recieved the Triforce of Power and had total control over it and any wish he wanted. Many people from all over the world fled to the Sacred Realm to escape Gannondorf's tyranny or to claim the Realm as their own. (hundreds of years later this turned the Sacred Realm in to the world we know now in Wind Waker.) The 7 Sages were hidden in the minds and hearts of 7 people in Hyrule, those Sages had to be "awakened" by Link, which would mean they would have to end their natural lives to become a part of the Sacred Realm again. After Link awakened all the sages and binded GANON with the Master Sword, Zelda and the other sages used their magic to seal GANON away in to the Sacred Realm and locked it with a seal that only the 7 sages could break.)

When these events became legend and were forgotten in the mists of time, a strange wizard appeared named Agahnim who cast a spell on the soldiers of Hyrule and used his dark magic on the maidens who are descendents of the sages in order to open the portal once again. The time draws near for princess Zelda blah blah blah.

(In OoT: thousands of years later after Gannondorf was locked away in to the Sacred Realm in OoT (and after the events of WW) a spectre in the form of a man took control of Hyrule. That man, Agahnim, was a projection of Gannondorf from the Sacred Realm. For those thousands of years Gannondorf was inside the Sacred Realm, had turned it in to the Dark World and had become GANON, king of that world (but this is all after the events of WW!). He still had command over the Triforce of Power and has been waiting to strike the real world so that he can own both worlds but can only do that after he kills everyone related to the sages and ends their blood line)

At the end of OoT, Gannondorf's final words were "Curse you, Sages! I will destroy your descendents!" And that was the first hint to LttP's and WW's plot lines. In WW you must save the descendents to Zelda (the bird girl=the Zora girl=Zelda) and Link (The Korok that gets in trouble alot and plays the fiddle=a Hylian boy that plays the fiddle=Link).

Now, WW takes place between OoT and LttP in the Sacred Realm before Gannondorf has created Agahnim. The real world still exists frozen in time under the ocean which is a literal barrier between the Sacred Realm and the real world. The Godesses froze time in the real world to save the people of Hyrule from Ganondorf's evil until Link would appear to stop him in the Sacred Realm and brought all its people in to the Sacred Realm which is why Hyrule is empty except for Gannondorf's monsters. But when Link defeated Gannondorf in the Sacred Realm he drove the Master Sword in to his skull and the sword binded his evil in to the REAL WORLD and encased Gannondorf in to stone which threw the balance of the Triforce in to chaos. The Triforce of power is still inside Gannondorf. The King of Hyrule, now broken free of his curse exists as a completely seperate entity from the dragon boat which was a spectre of the Hyrulian King that he used to communicate to Link.

Agahnim was then born as a spectre of Gannondorf in the real world while the real Gannondorf was frozen in the Sacred Realm, binded by the Master Sword.

But then, because Agahnim was threatening to destroy the seal which would give Agahnim control over both worlds, Link appeared and took the Master Sword out of it's resting place.

In the real world, the Master Sword laid hidden in a forest stuck in a stone altar. But in the Sacred Realm (a mirror world) that Master Sword is the same sword used by Link in Wind Waker to bind Gannondorf. In LttP, when Link takes the Maser Sword out of its resting place he frees Gannondorf in the Sacred Realm.

Gannondorf combines King Agahnim in to himself and uses the Triforce of Power to become GANON the evil King. The Dark World was formed in that instantaneous moment at which Gannondorf was freed which is why all hell breaks lose in the story as soon as you aquire the Master Sword.

After you defeat all 3 forms of Gannondorf's puppets towards the very end of Wind Waker he looks at you with amazement and says:

"You are truely the Hero of Time reborn."

The last time Gannondorf met the "Hero of Time" was OoT as this is the only story where the Hero of Time reference is made as Link travels through a time frame of 7 years.

pleh, i'm not even adding anything! This is scene for scene, word for word what is told through the Zelda series. You still think it's not complicated, OB1? :)

Looking at OB1's original timeline I have a question. Why would Wind Waker fit after Ocarina of Time? Ganondorf was transformed into Ganon at the end of Ocarina of Time, but in Wind Waker he is in his original Gerudo form. I don't remember all of the aspects of the story in Wind Waker, though, so this might have been touched upon.

Uh, you obviously forget a LOT because WW make frequent and repeated references to events in OoT as past history...

For instance, just watch the intro.

Thank you for completely avoiding my posts, D. Because if you would have read my posts i would answered your question already. But the short answer is:

The Triforce of Power made Gannondorf in to GANON because Gannondorf died and GANON could take over. GANON is not Gannondorf, it's a seperate entity that lives inside the black heart of evil when it comes in contact with the Triforce of Power. Think of it like a powerup, if GANON is defeated his power level goes back down and has to regain it to become GANON again.

Sorry, just had a brain fart there. One of those instances where a question came to mind and I just had to ask it.

lazyfatbum Wrote:I just realized that it was in OoT where the Triforce would be in the soul of the 3 that hold balance.

OB1, why would you think that Nintendo "Wouldn't get that complicated"? There's tons of story packed in to OoT, MM and WW but it's not on the forefront of the video game. you have to look for it; Litteraly. In OoT, you only get the whole story by listening to the Gossip Stones, in MM you need to finish every single Mask-quest and side-quest and in WW you need to earn every single statue for your gallery and all the Heart Pieces. Only then will you see the entire context.

Nintendo wouldn't get that complicated? Am I mistaken or are we talking about the same series of games?

In Zelda 2 we're taught about LttP's story line hundreds of years in the future and in LttP we're told how OoT ends since OoT happened thousands of years before LttP:

Long ago in a Hyrule kingdom, legends were told of a Golden Power. But that power lay hidden beyond the reach of men in a Sacred Realm. One day, that doorway suddenly opened and the people fought to enter the Sacred Realm and fought to aqcuire the Golden Power.

(In OoT: Link opened the portal to the Sacred Realm by taking the Master Sword when he was only 10. The Goddesses kept him in the Sacred Realm for 7 years until he was old enough to become Link, Hero of Time and weild the Master Sword. With the Realm open, anyone could venture in to it)

But all who entered never returned and the Sacred Realm was overcome with a dark magic and the portal now spewed forth evil in to the world. The King ordered 7 Sages to seal the gate and many lives were lost to protect the sages. But the sages were able to cast the spell and sealed the doorway to the sacred realm forever, or so they had hoped.

(in OoT: For seven years the portal was open and Gannondorf touched the Triforce and wished for ultimate Power and control of the world, he recieved the Triforce of Power and had total control over it and any wish he wanted. Many people from all over the world fled to the Sacred Realm to escape Gannondorf's tyranny or to claim the Realm as their own. (hundreds of years later this turned the Sacred Realm in to the world we know now in Wind Waker.) The 7 Sages were hidden in the minds and hearts of 7 people in Hyrule, those Sages had to be "awakened" by Link, which would mean they would have to end their natural lives to become a part of the Sacred Realm again. After Link awakened all the sages and binded GANON with the Master Sword, Zelda and the other sages used their magic to seal GANON away in to the Sacred Realm and locked it with a seal that only the 7 sages could break.)

When these events became legend and were forgotten in the mists of time, a strange wizard appeared named Agahnim who cast a spell on the soldiers of Hyrule and used his dark magic on the maidens who are descendents of the sages in order to open the portal once again. The time draws near for princess Zelda blah blah blah.

(In OoT: thousands of years later after Gannondorf was locked away in to the Sacred Realm in OoT (and after the events of WW) a spectre in the form of a man took control of Hyrule. That man, Agahnim, was a projection of Gannondorf from the Sacred Realm. For those thousands of years Gannondorf was inside the Sacred Realm, had turned it in to the Dark World and had become GANON, king of that world (but this is all after the events of WW!). He still had command over the Triforce of Power and has been waiting to strike the real world so that he can own both worlds but can only do that after he kills everyone related to the sages and ends their blood line)

At the end of OoT, Gannondorf's final words were "Curse you, Sages! I will destroy your descendents!" And that was the first hint to LttP's and WW's plot lines. In WW you must save the descendents to Zelda (the bird girl=the Zora girl=Zelda) and Link (The Korok that gets in trouble alot and plays the fiddle=a Hylian boy that plays the fiddle=Link).

Now, WW takes place between OoT and LttP in the Sacred Realm before Gannondorf has created Agahnim. The real world still exists frozen in time under the ocean which is a literal barrier between the Sacred Realm and the real world. The Godesses froze time in the real world to save the people of Hyrule from Ganondorf's evil until Link would appear to stop him in the Sacred Realm and brought all its people in to the Sacred Realm which is why Hyrule is empty except for Gannondorf's monsters. But when Link defeated Gannondorf in the Sacred Realm he drove the Master Sword in to his skull and the sword binded his evil in to the REAL WORLD and encased Gannondorf in to stone which threw the balance of the Triforce in to chaos. The Triforce of power is still inside Gannondorf. The King of Hyrule, now broken free of his curse exists as a completely seperate entity from the dragon boat which was a spectre of the Hyrulian King that he used to communicate to Link.

Agahnim was then born as a spectre of Gannondorf in the real world while the real Gannondorf was frozen in the Sacred Realm, binded by the Master Sword.

But then, because Agahnim was threatening to destroy the seal which would give Agahnim control over both worlds, Link appeared and took the Master Sword out of it's resting place.

In the real world, the Master Sword laid hidden in a forest stuck in a stone altar. But in the Sacred Realm (a mirror world) that Master Sword is the same sword used by Link in Wind Waker to bind Gannondorf. In LttP, when Link takes the Maser Sword out of its resting place he frees Gannondorf in the Sacred Realm.

Gannondorf combines King Agahnim in to himself and uses the Triforce of Power to become GANON the evil King. The Dark World was formed in that instantaneous moment at which Gannondorf was freed which is why all hell breaks lose in the story as soon as you aquire the Master Sword.

After you defeat all 3 forms of Gannondorf's puppets towards the very end of Wind Waker he looks at you with amazement and says:

"You are truely the Hero of Time reborn."

The last time Gannondorf met the "Hero of Time" was OoT as this is the only story where the Hero of Time reference is made as Link travels through a time frame of 7 years.

pleh, i'm not even adding anything! This is scene for scene, word for word what is told through the Zelda series. You still think it's not complicated, OB1? :)

It's convoluted, I'll give you that. And that's mainly because Miyamoto doesn't really care about story and making the games fit together really well (as shown in his numerous interviews over the past 15 years which contradict each other). Eiji Aonuma, however, has said that he wants to make sense of the Zelda storyline and make the games fit together more cohesively. That's why I don't think that they'd go with your theory of different games taking place in different realms, at least not nearly as complicated as you have explained. :)

Quote:Looking at OB1's original timeline I have a question. Why would Wind Waker fit after Ocarina of Time? Ganondorf was transformed into Ganon at the end of Ocarina of Time, but in Wind Waker he is in his original Gerudo form. I don't remember all of the aspects of the story in Wind Waker, though, so this might have been touched upon.

Like ABF said, WW directly references OoT in its intro and throughout the rest of the game.

Quote:The Triforce of Power made Gannondorf in to GANON because Gannondorf died and GANON could take over. GANON is not Gannondorf, it's a seperate entity that lives inside the black heart of evil when it comes in contact with the Triforce of Power. Think of it like a powerup, if GANON is defeated his power level goes back down and has to regain it to become GANON again.

Basically, yes.

It's really not all that convoluted unless you dont follow it.

And why would you say Nintendo would't go with "other realms"? LttP cleary states that you have to go in to the Sacred Realm, which is now the Dark World, and destroy its evil.

Then in OoT, you actually enter the Sacred Realm and meet the sage of light Rauru who is, in the real world, an owl. And in WW the King of Hyrule (in the real world) is a talking boat in the Sacred Realm. They've already gone with the idea of stories taking place in different realms.

I never said that there wasn't a sacred realm, I said that I think your theory of most of the games taking place completely in the sacred realm is doubtful. And why do you say that WW took place in the sacred realm? I remember the King talking about how the gods sealed away both Hyrule and Ganon, but nothing about the world above Hyrule being the sacred realm. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I don't remember that.

There are so many theories about Zelda's story that your's could very well be true, but I think it's a bit too early to tell. It is a good read though.

Oh and one other thing--and I think it applies to part of your theory--is that WW takes place after the ending of OoT where Link is an adult, and MM takes place after the ending where Link is a kid.

Actually that just makes things a whole lot more confusing.

Did you forget the ending to OoT? :)

When GANON is destroyed and Gannondorf is sealed in to the Sacred Realm, Link, as the Hero of Time and Zelda as the Sage of Wisdom, no longer exist. That's why they see nothing but clouds. They're now 'normal' people, and Zelda sends you back in time to your childhood.

Some things are a constant though, even though you're back as a child the Great Deku tree is still dead and a sprout has started, Zora's domain is still frozen over and the sage's living forms are still dead but now protect Hyrule in your place. Hyrule will now experience peace for a few hundred years, until Agahnim appears.

but then just weeks after you returned to your childhood, walking through the forest with a young Epona, Young Link is attacked and the Ocarina of Time and Epona are stolen. Link runs after and enters a strange world. I believe that world is limbo or a kind of after life. By stopping the moon and helping every person in this land and returning the Majora's Mask to the mask salesman he is granted passage out of the after life. Then, as a young teenager, while riding on Epona through the countryside, the Hero of Time finds himself at a temple where the Triforce asks to prove himself, he agrees and a new adventure begins.

So the place the Hero of Time was seen last in was the Oracle games. OoT, MM and Oracle Series, happened within years of eachother. But the Link in LttP is not the Hero of Time, it is a new Link.

This Link had only two adventures; LttP and LA. And I think LA takes place in the Sacred Realm thousands of years after Wind Waker. He's on an island that is surrounded by an endless ocean and the people on this island have never heard of another island or seen anyone from another island, but a woman who looks like Zelda is there as well as other people that look like people from Hyrule. After Link awakens the Windfish (Wind Waker?) he is taken back to Hyrule oceans.

So that's the last time we saw that Hero. I'm hoping the next GC Zelda takes place where that one left off.

I think this is the timeline for every Zelda game:

The Adventures of Link
The Legend of Zelda
---
New GC Legend of Zelda?
Link's Awakening - Sacred Realm
Link to the Past
---
Wind Waker - Sacred Realm
---
The Oracle Series - Sacred Realm
Majora's Mask
Ocarina of Time
---
Four Swords Adventures - Sacred Realm
Minish Cap - Sacred Realm (not totally sure yet)

No no, Aonuma said that Wind Waker takes place after the ending of OoT where Link is an adult, not when he goes back to being a child.

Look: http://www.nintendo.com/gamedev?gameid=m-Game-0000-823

Quote:Where does The Wind Waker fit into the overall timeline of the Legend of Zelda?

Mr. Aonuma: In terms of the storyline, we've decided that this takes place 100 years after the events in The Ocarina of Time. We think that as you play through the game, you'll notice that in the beginning the storyline explains some of the events in The Ocarina of Time. You'll also find hints of things from The Ocarina of Time that exist in The Wind Waker.

There's also a more complicated explanation. If you think back to the end of The Ocarina of Time, there were two endings to that game in different time periods. First Link defeated Ganon as an adult, and then he actually went back to being a child. You could say that The Wind Waker takes place 100 years after the ending in which Link was an adult.

hahaha okay, so Nintendo wants to make this as complicated as possible then. Now we have two branches of time from OoT? In one we have Wind Waker, in the other we have MM and the oracle games? Jesus.

You know, that's what happens when you make stories involving time travel. All sorts of paradoxes are created. As of right now MM is the only one that sticks out in its own separate timeline. The Oracles games could be anywhere after WW, and LA definitely happens right after the Oracle games (see my first post; they made it very obvious). I don't think MC takes place in the sacred realm because well, first of all it's supposed to be the first game in the timeline, and secondly because you're protecting Hyrule in the game, and the bad guy is trying to get the triforce (which is in the sacred realm), I believe. And MC references the Four Swords games and the Oracle games, so they can't have taken place in the sacred realm. Or something.

This is fun. :)

I don't think that there is some kind of time split... that's a silly explanation, IMO. It would make more sense to just say that they are in the same timeline. Are there still problems? Sure. But I'd far rather just explain those away than go to the drastic (and, IMO, kind of dumb) step of saying that there are actually seperate timelines that explain away the problems... kinda...

MM, though, is a seperate timeline. That is true.

The idea of the games mostly taking place in the Sacred Realm... I think the same thing -- it just doesn't really make sense...

Jeez.

The Triforce used to be in the real world, but it had to be hidden because people kept trying to get it, including Gannondorf and other great evils. That's probably what happens in Minish Cap.

But the Oracle games happening after WW how does he get Epona? And how does Link's Awakening happen AFTER the Oracle games? The pamplet even says that "after defeating GANON in Hyrule, Link set sail for another adventure to far away lands." So it has to take place right after LttP.

-----------------

Story from LA booklet:

Though you fulfilled the Hyrulian prophecy of the Legendary Hero and
destroyed the evil tyrant Ganon, the land of Hyrule enjoyed only a precarious
peace. "Who knows what threats may arise from Ganon's ashes?" the restless
people murmured as they knitted their brows and shook their heads. Ever
vigilant, you decided to journey away from Hyrule on a quest for
enlightenment, in search of wisdom that would make you better able to
withstand the next threat to your homeland. Months of difficult travel
passed. After a long and fruitful voyage, you breathed deeply the sea spray
from the deck of the ship that carried you home to Hyrule. But your
homecoming was not to be. Suddenly a squall struck your ship, and though you
valiantly fought the waves, a lightning bolt reduced your ship to splinters.

Your world faded to black as you sink into the darkness of the storm-tossed
sea with the remains of your craft. But in the cold darkness of the deep, you
heard a comforting voice that reminded you of home. It was the voice of
Princess Zelda! "You're going to be all right!" the voice said. "What a
relief!"

You opened your eyes to find Princess Zelda standing over you - or was it?!
Actually, it turned out to be a woman named Marin. She explained that you had
drifted with the wreckage of your ship to the shores of Koholint Island. This
mysterious island was unique for the gigantic egg, which crowned its central
mountain. It was said that a mythical creature, the Wind Fish, lay asleep
inside the egg.

You set out in search of your sword and other gear that might have washed up
on the beach with you. As you stood in the surf with your recovered sword, a
strange owl suddenly appeared and hooted this riddle:

"Awaken the Wind Fish and all will be answered."

"What is the Wind Fish?" you wonder... And what did its awakening portend?
Your most mysterious adventure yet, following the riddle of the Wind Fish
throughout the uncharted island of Koholint, is about to unfold.

Quote:The Triforce used to be in the real world, but it had to be hidden because people kept trying to get it, including Gannondorf and other great evils. That's probably what happens in Minish Cap.

Well there's only one way to find out. I get to play it tonight, woo!

Quote:But the Oracle games happening after WW how does he get Epona? And how does Link's Awakening happen AFTER the Oracle games? The pamplet even says that "after defeating GANON in Hyrule, Link set sail for another adventure to far away lands." So it has to take place right after LttP.

If that actually is Epona and not just some horse (and who's to say it's not?), then it's the same Zelda logic that allows Malon and Talon and various other characters to exist long before OoT.

And I wouldn't take anything from the original LA manual to be absolute. Nintendo changed a lot of stuff that was written in the original manuals, and not just with Zelda. And since the Oracle games used the LA engine and the dev team tried so hard to make the final ending fit right into the beginning of LA, it makes the most sense. I highly doubt they were too concerned about the original instruction manual. They knew that very few people still have it. It fits perfectly.

But that's too much of a difference. In LA, the game itself, you fight Nightmare who turns into the bug-worm and GANON from LttP. I think Link and Marin (Zelda) even have a brief talk about an adventure in another land and bring up the plot of LttP.

You cant disregard what Nintendo themselves have printed in a booklet for a game, maybe a name difference or a bad translation but not the whole story.

I think you misunderstood me. I think the Oracle titles took place right before LA, but also right after LttP (most likely... though there's really nothing stopping it from taking place after Zelda 2. Or at least none that I can think of). So it would go LttP --> Oracles --> LA.

You know, all this LA talk makes me want to play through LA again. Out of all the Zelda games I have the best memories associated with that one, mainly because I played it so much on vacation at the beautiful seaside of Croatia (which fit perfectly with the tone of the game). Just thinking about it fills me with joy. :)

I think when they put a Link on a boat it was because he needed to use a boat to see other lands, not to give you a hint that it's the begining of Link's Awakening. Dont forget that both Oracle games happen in another demension, whether it's the Sacred Realm or not, the game litteraly tells you that the stories do not take place on the earthly realm.

I'll list the stories in the order that i think is the correct timeline, in what I think is the chronological order:

THE MINISH CAP

A long, long time ago...

When the world was on the verge of being swallowed by shadow...

The tiny Picori appeared from the sky, bringing the hero of men a sword and a
golden light.

With wisdom and courage, the hero drove out the darkness.

When the peace had been restored, the people enshrined that blade with care.

(dunno if this is from the instruction booklet or the game)

FOUR SWORDS ADVENTURES

I have to go find my booklet for that one, I’ll post this later.

OCARINA OF TIME

A long time ago...

Before life began, before the world had form, three golden goddesses
descended upon the chaotic land of Hyrule, they were Din, the goddess of
power, Nayru, the goddess of wisdom and Farore, the goddess of courage.

Din, with her strong flaming arms, cultivated the land to create the earth.
Nayru poured her wisdom onto the earth to give the spirit of law to the
world. Farore's rich soul created all life forms who would uphold the law.

These three great goddesses returned to the Heavens, leaving behind the
Golden Sacred Triforce. Since then, the Triforce has become the basis for
Hyrule's providence, where the Triforce stood became sacred land.

In the vast, deep forest of Hyrule, the Great Deku Tree served as the
guardian spirit. The children of the forest, the Kokiri, lived with the Great
Deku Tree. Each Kokiri had his or her own guardian fairy, except one. His
name was Link.

Early one morning, Link was having a nightmare. It was the same nightmare he
had every night. During a storm, Link would find himself standing in front of
a mysterious castle. A rider on horseback, carrying a girl, would race by.
The girl would look at Link as if to say something. Then, another rider would
appear. This big man clad in black would look down menacingly at Link. Link
would then awaken.

"Link! Hey, get up, Link! The Great Deku Tree wants to talk to you!"

As Link opened his eyes, he saw a fairy floating in front of him. This
fairy's name was Navi. Navi was sent to summon Link to the Great Deku Tree.

"Oh Navi, thou hast returned!" said the Deku Tree. "Thank you, Link, for
coming. Thy slumber these past moons must have been restless, and full of
nightmares. A vile climate pervades this world. Verily, ye have felt it. The
time has come to test thine courage. I have been cursed. I need
you to dispel the curse with your wisdom and courage. Art thou prepared?"

Link entered the Great Deku Tree and broke the curse.

"Well done, Link! I knew that ye were worthy of carrying out my wishes. A
wicked man of the desert cast this dreadful curse on me. Employing his vile,
sorcerous energies, the evil one is searching for the Sacred Realm connected
to Hyrule. For it is there that one will find the divine relic. The Triforce,
that contains the essence of the gods. Whoever
holds the Triforce can make their wishes come true. Thou must never allow the
desert man to lay his hands on the Sacred Triforce. Thou must never suffer
that man to enter the Sacred Realm of Legend. Link, go now to Hyrule Castle.
There, ye will surely meet the Princess of Destiny. Present this stone to the
Princess. I have foreseen that she will
understand everything."

The Great Deku Tree gave Link the Spiritual Stone of the Forest. Before
dying, the Deku Tree's last words were, "The future depends on thee, Link.
Thou art courageous."

MAJORA'S MASK

In the land of Hyrule, there echoes a legend. A legend held dearly by the
Royal Family that tells of a boy...

A boy who, after battling evil and saving Hyrule, crept away from that land
that had made him a legend...

Done with the battles he once waged across time, he embarked on a journey. A
secret and personal journey...

A journey in search of a beloved and invaluable friend...

A friend with whom he parted ways when he finally fulfilled his heroic
destiny and took his place among legends...

ORACLE OF SEASONS (note that both oracle games happen at the same time in separate dimensions)

One day in Hyrule, a strange force drew Link deep within Hyrule castle,
where he found the Triforce resting, glittering brilliantly as it awaited him.
"Link... Link... Accept the quest of the Triforce!"

Suddenly, Link was enveloped in a circle of light, and the next moment,
he vanished.

When Link awoke, he found himself in a forest he had never seen.
Confused, he looked around blankly at the unfamiliar surroundings. He heard
pleasant music and laughing voices echoing from deep within the woods. Link
followed the inviting voices until he came upon a traveling troupe of actors.
He was immediately struck by the beauty of a young woman who was dancing about
in circles. When the girl noticed Link, she smiled brightly and called to
him.

"Welcome to Holodrum. I am Din, the dancer," she said with glee. "Would
you like to dance with me? Don't be shy. It will be more fun if we dance
together." She took him by the hand, and he reluctantly began to dance.
Unfortunately, this blissful moment did not last long. The sky suddenly
went dark, and there was a loud crash of thunder, followed by a resounding,
thunderous voice.

"I've found you, Din! You can't deceive me by disguising yourself as a
dancer. I am Onox, General of Darkness! Now reveal yourself, Oracle of
Seasons!"

Then a great tornado dropped from the sky and drew near Din, as if to
engulf her.

"Help me, Link!" she cried.
Link was blown back by the tornado as he struggled against its awesome
force, and Din was swept away in the wind...

And then strange things began to happen throughout the land.
When Onox carried off the Oracle of Seasons from the land of Holodrum,
the seasons fell into chaos and the land was deprived of the bountiful gifts
of nature. Life was slowly being drained from the land, and all living things
began to wither.

And so Onox set in motion his plan to gather the power from the withering
land and create a world of total darkness. Will Link be able to rescue Din
from the hand of evil, the General of Darkness?
Such is the quest Link must undertake.

ORACLE OF AGES (note that both oracle games happen at the same time in separate dimensions)

Link awoke one day to find himself deep in strange forest. As he started to
walk through the woods, he heard cries for help coming from just up ahead of
him. Link hurried toward the voice, only to find a group of monsters
surrounding the woman who was screaming. When the monsters saw Link, they
immediately fled.

The woman who was being attacked was none other than Impa, nurse to Hyrule's
Princess Zelda. Impa said she had come to the forest to search for a singer
named Nayru.

"Can't you help me look?" Impa asked. Despite the strange look she gave him,
Link could not refuse her request. Together they found a large stone with a
rune on it. Naturally, Link moved the stone, but Impa wouldn't so much as
lay a hand on it.

As they traveled even deeper into the forest, they found a young woman
singing. Invited to sit by the group of animals that listened to the girl's
song, Link joined in the circle and let the beautiful song fill his ears and
penetrate his heart. This was surely Nayru, the singer Impa was searching
for. Just then, Impa erupted in a cackling laugh.

"Ah ha ha ha ha ha!"

A darkness surrounded Impa, and a frightening shadow lifted from her body.

"Nayru! Oracle of Ages! I, Veran, Sorceress of Shadows, shall make you my
own!"

The shadow that called itself Veran began swooping about the forest before
flying straight into the body of the frightened singer. A blinding light
shone forth from Nayru's body.

When Link's eyes had grown used to the light, he realized that Nayru looked
very strange. Her face seemed veiled in shadow, and her bright smile had
vanished. A piercing, evil gaze had replaced it.

"Ha ha ha ha ha!"

"Now the power of the Oracle of Ages is mine! I can travel through time at
will! Now a new age shall begin--an age of shadows!" And with that, Veran
and Nayru vanished.

Nayru was actually the Oracle of Ages who controlled time in this land of
Labrynna. When the oracle was kidnapped, the flow of time in Labrynna was
distorted, and strange things began to happen. Before vanishing, Veran said,
"When the past changes, so does the present." Her plan was to travel to the
past and gather power from the sorrows of the people of Labrynna so that she
could create her age of shadows.

WIND WAKER

Long ago, there existed a kingdom where a golden power lay hidden. One day,
a man of great evil found this power and took for himself, and with it at his
command, he spread darkness across the kingdom. But then, just as all hope
has died, a young boy clothed in green appeared as if from nowhere Wielding a
blade that repelled evil, he sealed the dark one away and gave the land
light. This boy, who traveled through time to save the land, was known as
the Hero of Time. The boy's tale was passed down through generations until
it became legend.
And then a day came when a fell wind began to blow across the kingdom, and
the great evil once again crept forth from the depths of earth. The people
believed that the Hero of Time would again come to save them. But the hero
did not appear...
What became of that kingdom? None remain who know. The memory of the
kingdom vanished, but its legend survived on the wind's breath.
On a certain island it became customary to garb young boys in green when they
come of age. Clothed in the green of fields, they aspire to find heroic
blades and cast evil down. The elders wish only for the youths to know
courage like the hero of legend...

LINK TO THE PAST

----------------------------The Creation of Hyrule-----------------------------

According to the Hylian scrolls, the mythical gods descended from a distant
nebula to the world and created order and life. The God of Power dyed the
mountains red with fire and created land. The God of Wisdom created science and
wizardry and brought order to nature. And the God of Courage, through justice
and vigor, created life - the animals that crawl the land and the birds that
soar in the sky. After the gods had finsihed their work, they left the world,
but not before creating a symbol of their strength, a golden triangle known as
the Triforce. A small but powerful portion of the essence of the gods was held
in this mighty artifact, which was to guide the intelligent life on the world
of Hyrule.

Although it was an inanimate object, the Triforce had the power to bestow three
titles which gave the person who received them great powers: "The Forger of
Strength", "The Keeper of Knowledge", and "The Juror of Courage". From its
hiding place in the so-called Golden Land where the Gods placed it, the
Triforce beckoned people from the outside world to seek it in the hope that
someone worthy of these titles would find it. With their magic infused blood,
the Hylian people were endowed with psychic powers and skill in wizardry. It
was also said that their long, pointed ears enabled them to hear special
messages from the gods, so they were heldin high esteem by many people in
Hyrule. Their descendants settled in various parts of the world and passed on
their knowledge and magical lore to all people. But in its passing, the lore
was often distorted or lost altogether.

---------------------------Gates To The Golden Land----------------------------

In Hyrule, there are many Hylian buildings which are mentioned repeatedly in
the legends. These buildings, which now lie in ruin, pale shadows of their
former splendor, are closely tied to the Triforce. Some were even said to house
the Triforce...

If it were only a symbol of the gods, the Triforce would be coveted by many.
But a verse from the Book of Mudora (a collection of Hylian legends and lore)
made the Triforce even more desirable:

In a realm beyond sight,
The Sky shines gold, not blue.
There, the Triforce's might
Makes mortal dreams come true.

Many aggressively searched for the wish-granting Triforce, but no one, not even
the Hylian sages, was sure of its location; the knowledge had been lost over
time. Some said the Triforce lay under the desert, others said it was in the
cemetary in the shadow of Death Mountain, but no one ever found it. That
yearning for the Triforce soon turned to lust for power, which in turn led to
the spilling of blood. Soon the only motive left among those searching for the
Triforce was pure greed.

One day, quite by accident, a gate to the Golden Land of the Triforce was
opened by a gang of thieves skilled in the black arts. This land was like no
other. In the gathering twilight, the Triforce shone from its resting place
high above the world. In a long running battle, the leader of the thieves
fought his way past his followers in a lust for the Golden Power. After
vanquishing his own followers, the leader stood triumphant over the Triforce
and grasped it with his blood- stained hands. He heard a whispered voice: "If
thou has a strong desire or dream, wish for it..." And in reply, the roaring
laughter of the brigand leader echoed across time and space and even reached
the far-off land of Hyrule. The name of this king of thieves is Ganondorf
Dragmire, but he is known by his alias, Mandrag Ganon, which means Ganon of the
Enchanted Thieves.

------------------------------The Imprisoning War------------------------------

I do not know what Ganon wished for from the Triforce. However, in time evil
power begain to flow from the Golden Land and greedy men were drawn there to
become members of Ganon's army. Black clouds permanently darkened the sky, and
many disasters beset Hyrule. The lord of Hyrule sent for the Seven Wise Men and
the Knights Of Hyrule, and ordered them to seal the enterance to the Golden
Land.

The Triforce, being an inanimate object, cannot judge between good and evil.
Therefore, it could not know that Ganon's wishes were evil; it merely granted
them. Suspecting that Ganon's power was based on the Triforce's magic, the
people of Hyrule forged a sword resistant to magic which could repulse even
powers granted by the Triforce. This mighty weapon became known as the blade of
evil's bane, or the Master Sword. It was so powerful that only one who was pure
of heart and strong of body could wield it. As the Seven Wise Men searched for
a valient person to take up the Master Sword, Ganon's evil army swarmed from
the tainted Golden Land into Hyrule and attacked the castle. The wise men and
the Knights Of Hyrule combined forces to wage war on this evil horde.

The Knights took the full brunt of the fierce attack, and although they fought
courageously many a brave soul was lost that day, However, their lives were not
lost in vain, for they bought precious time for the Seven Wise Men to magically
seal ganon in the Golden land. All of Hyrule rejoiced at the victory that
upheld peace and order over Ganon's evil and chaos. Thsi war, which had claimed
many lives, became known as the Imprisoning War in stories told in later
centuries.

----------------------------The Coming of the Wizard---------------------------

Many centuries have passed since the Imprisoning War. The land of Hyrule healed
its wounds and the people lived in peace for a long time. Memories of the
vicious Imprisoning War faded over the generations...

So it is no surprise that no one was prepared for the new disasters that have
recently struck Hyrule. Pestilence and drought, uncontrollable even by magic,
revaged the land. The king of Hyrule, after counsel with his sages, ordered an
investigation of the Imprisoned Dark World (as the Golden land had come to be
known) but the wise men's seal was apparently intact. he offered rewards for
anyone who could find the source of these troubles. In answer to these summons
a stranger named Agahnim came and quelled the disasters witha previously unseen
form of magic. As a reward, the king gave him a new position as chief advisor
and heir to the Seven masses proclaimed him their hero. Peace had returned to
Hyrule... or had it? Of late, rumors have traveled their whispering path with
alarming frequency. Rumors saying Agahnim now rules the country with his
magic... Rumors of strange magical experiments in the castle tower at night...
The people of Hyrule were gripped by dread.

-----------------------------------Prologue------------------------------------

One night, a girl's voice awakens you from your sleep.

She telepathically pleads.

You jump out of bed not knowing whether the voice was part of a dream or
reality. Upon leaving your bed, you find your uncle, who should be fast asleep
at this time, preparing to go out, girded for battle.

"I'll be back by moring," he says as he departs. "Don't leave the house."

You watch him leave with the family sword in hand and shield on arm. This night
is like no other... Who is Zelda? Where had your uncle gone and for what
reason?

And so, on an ill-fated night, a new chapter in the legend of Hyrule's hero
begins- a new chapter in The Legend of Zelda!

YOUR QUEST AS THE LEGENDARY HERO!

The Golden land of the Triforce has become a Dark World corrupted by Ganon's
evil wishes. However, this is not enough for Ganon; he also wants to make
Hyrule, the Light World, his own. To do this, he needs to break the Seal Of The
Seven Wise Men.

But he cannot do this with his power alone. He must also use the life force of
the descendants of the Seven Wise Men. With Agahnim the wizard as his pawn,
this is about to become a reality (thus the late night experiments in the
castle tower...).

You, as the legendary Hero of Hyrule, must enter the Dark World on a quest to
save the maidens that Agahnim has sent there. The aim of the game is to solve
the many mysteries and adventures that await you along the way to rescuing the
maidens, defeating Ganon, and returning peace to Hyrule.

LINK'S AWAKENING

Though you fulfilled the Hyrulian prophecy of the Legendary Hero and
destroyed the evil tyrant Ganon, the land of Hyrule enjoyed only a precarious
peace. "Who knows what threats may arise from Ganon's ashes?" the restless
people murmured as they knitted their brows and shook their heads. Ever
vigilant, you decided to journey away from Hyrule on a quest for
enlightenment, in search of wisdom that would make you better able to
withstand the next threat to your homeland. Months of difficult travel
passed. After a long and fruitful voyage, you breathed deeply the sea spray
from the deck of the ship that carried you home to Hyrule. But your
homecoming was not to be. Suddenly a squall struck your ship, and though you
valiantly fought the waves, a lightning bolt reduced your ship to splinters.

Your world faded to black as you sink into the darkness of the storm-tossed
sea with the remains of your craft. But in the cold darkness of the deep, you
heard a comforting voice that reminded you of home. It was the voice of
Princess Zelda! "You're going to be all right!" the voice said. "What a
relief!"

You opened your eyes to find Princess Zelda standing over you - or was it?!
Actually, it turned out to be a woman named Marin. She explained that you had
drifted with the wreckage of your ship to the shores of Koholint Island. This
mysterious island was unique for the gigantic egg, which crowned its central
mountain. It was said that a mythical creature, the Wind Fish, lay asleep
inside the egg.

You set out in search of your sword and other gear that might have washed up
on the beach with you. As you stood in the surf with your recovered sword, a
strange owl suddenly appeared and hooted this riddle:

"Awaken the Wind Fish and all will be answered."

"What is the Wind Fish?" you wonder... And what did its awakening portend?
Your most mysterious adventure yet, following the riddle of the Wind Fish
throughout the uncharted island of Koholint, is about to unfold.

THE LEGEND OF ZELDA

A long, long time ago the World was in an age of Chaos. In the middle
of this chaos, in a little kingdom in the land of Hyrule, a legend was
being banded down from generation to generation, the legend of the
"Triforce", golden triangles possessing mystical powers.


One day, an evil army attacked this peaceful little kingdom and stole
the Triforce of Power. This army was led by Gannon, the powerful
Prince of Darkness who sought to plunge the world into fear and
darkness under his rule. Fearing his wicked rule, Zelda, the princess
of this kingdom, split up the Triforce of Wisdom into eight fragments
and hid them throughout the realm to save the last remaining Triforce
from the clutches of the evil Gannon. At the same time, she commanded
her most trustworthy nursemaid, Impa, to secretly escape into the land
and go find a man with enough courage to destroy the evil Gannon.
Upon hearing this, Gannon grew angry, imprisoned the princess, and sent
out a party in search of Impa.


Braving forests and mountains, Impa fled for her life from her
pursuers. As she reached the very limit of her energy she found
herself surrounded by Gannon's evil henchmen. Cornered! What could
she do?... But wait!


All was not lost. A young lad appeared. He skillfully drove off
Gannon's henchmen, and saved Impa from a fate worse than death.
His name was Link. During his travels he had come across Impa and
Gannon's henchmen. Impa told Link the whole story of the Princess Zelda
and the evil Gannon. Burning with a sense of justice, Link resolved to
save Zelda, but Gannon was a powerful opponent. He held the Triforce of
Power. And so, in order to fight off Gannon, Link had to bring the
scattered eight fragments of the Triforce of Wisdom together to
rebuild the mystical Triangle.


If he couldn't do this, there would be no chance Link could fight his
way into Death Mountain where Gannon lived. Can Link really destroy
Gannon and save the Princess Zelda? Only your skill can answer that
question. Good luck. Use the Triforce wisely.

THE ADVENTURES OF LINK

At the end of a fierce fight, Link overthrew Ganon, took back the Triforce
and rescued Princess Zelda. However, is it all really finished? Many
seasons have passed since then. Hyrule was on the road to ruin. The power
that the vile heart of Ganon has left behind was causing chaos and disorder
in Hyrule. What's more, even after the fall of Ganon, some of his underlings
remained waiting for Ganon's return. The Key to Ganon's return was the
blood of Link - the valiant lad who overthrew the King of Evil. Ganon would
be revived by sacrificing Link and sprinkling his blood on the ashes of
Ganon.

Meanwhile, Link remained in the little kingdom of Hyrule and lent his hand
to its restoration. But circumstances did not look very good. One day, a
strange mark, exactly like the crest of the kingdom, appeared on the back of
Link's hand as he approached his 16th birthday. The worried Link, went to
Impa, Princess Zelda's nursemaid who was shocked and frightened when she
saw the birthmark. When she regained her composure, she took Link to the
North Castle.

There was a door in North Castle called "the door that does not open." Only
the descendants of the Impa family who served the king knew how to open the
door. Impa took Link's left hand and pressed the back of it against the
door. There was a sound of a locking falling open, the door slowly creaked
open and there on an alter in the middle of the room lay a beautiful woman.
"Here lies Princess Zelda." Impa began to speak calmly.


"Link, the time has come when I must tell you the legend of Zelda handed
down in Hyrule. It is said that a long ago, when Hyrule was one country, a
great ruler maintained the peace in Hyrule using the Triforce. However, the
king too was a child of man and he died. Then, the prince of the kingdom
should have become and king and inherited everything, but he could inherit
the Triforce only in part. The Prince searched everywhere for the missing
parts, but could not find them. Then, a magician close to the king brought
him some unexpected news. Before he died, the king had said something about
the Triforce to only the younger sister of the prince, Princess Zelda. The
prince immediately questioned the princess, but she wouldn't tell him
anything. After the prince, the magician threatened to put the princess into
an eternal sleep if she did not talk, but still, she said nothing."

"In his anger, the magician tried to cast a magic spell on the princess. The
surprised prince tried to stop him, but the magician fought off the prince
and went on chanting the spell. Then, when the spell was finally cast,
Princess Zelda fell on that spot and entered a sleep from which she might
never awake. At the same time, the magician also fell down and breathed his
last."

"In his grief, the prince placed the princess in this room. He hoped that
someday she would come back to life. So that this tragedy would never be
forgotten, he ordered that every female child born into the royal household
shall be given the name Zelda."

From the stand next to the alter where Princess Zelda lay in a deep sleep,
Impa took six crystals and a scroll with the same crest and handed them to
Link. "For generations, my family has been handed down these things which
have been set aside for a time when a great king will come. They are
written in an ancient script that no-one can read now. But you who have the
crest may be able to read it. It is said that the key to uniting the
Triforce is hidden there. Now it is time for you to read it."

Link glanced at the scroll half in doubt, but what do you know? Although he
had never seen the letters before, he found that he could read them as if
they were talking to him.

This was written on the scroll. "You who'll control the Triforce of the
future. I shall hand down to you the secrets of the Triforce. There are
three kinds of Triforce - Power, Wisdom, and Courage. When these three are
brought together, the Triforce will show its maximum power. Of the three, I
left Power and Wisdom in the kingdom. But the Triforce Courage I have hidden
for a reason."

"Not everybody can use the Triforce. It requires a strong character with no
evil thoughts. But an inborn special quality is also necessary.
Unfortunately, I have not found such a person during my lifetime."

"Therefore, I have decided to cast a spell on all of Hyrule. A crest will
appear on a young man with the character who has been brought up correctly,
has gained many kinds of experiences and reached a certain age. But, what
will happen if someone else uses the Triforce before then? If it misused, it
will produce many evils."

"The Triforce of Courage is hidden in the Great Palace in the Valley of
Death on the largest island in Hyrule. However, to enter there you must
first fight the guardians and undo the "binding force." When you have
defeated the guardians, which I made to prevent enemies from invading the
six palaces in Hyrule, set a crystal in the forehead of the statue you find.
When you have set crystals in all of the statues in the six palaces, the
"binding force" places on the Valley of Death will be removed and you will
be able to enter the great palace. There, you must fight the last guardian.
And you can obtain the Triforce only by defeating the guardian."

"There's nothing to fear. You are the one to get the Triforce. You are the
beacon of hope for Hyrule."

Impa implored Link, who raised his head slowly after reading the scroll.

"The magic spell cast upon Princess Zelda will sure to be broken if the
Triforce is used."

"Please, Link. Unite the Triforce and save the princess. And bring back
peace to Hyrule."

Link nodded silently in approval, and left the room after taking a long
glance at the altar.

Then, with a magical sword in his left hand and a shield in his right, he set
off alone on his long travels. At that time, Ganon's underlings were calling
up new allies from the Underworld, and were beginning to work devilishly
toward the revival of Ganon.

So there you have it, everything is in order and nothing has changed in the game series from the instruction booklet's stories.

Interesting... I forget what happens in AoL, though... I mean, isn't there one Zelda in Hyrule and then another that you must awaken?

But that does seem to corroborate the idea that LA follows up LttP... it uses the same terms to refer to the Hero, etc...

As for Oracles, they clearly occur in other places, but the question is when. Hadn't we determined that it could only be a couple of times given the requirements for Link to be in Hyrule and the Triforce to all be there too? I don't remember when though...

Oh, and as for OoT/MM... I guess MM is an "alternate" timeline but it's the "alternate" timeline that all later Zelda games exist in while the "original" one is erased, so I would just say that it's the main timeline while it's most of OoT that is "alternate". :)