Tendo City

The Oracle games take place in different lands, but different realms? You sure about that? Because in Minish Cap those two areas are referred to simply as "different lands", and MC takes place in Hyrule.

I still think they happen right before LA because it just makes the most sense. Capcom used the LA engine and made it so that the ending could perfectly transition into LA. I really do not think that's just a coincidence.

Hopefully MC will answer some of these questions.

You know, the problem with trying to connect all of the stories together is that Nintendo does not plan out the storylines before everything else. They actually design all of the game elements first and then comes the story. The story is always worked around the gameplay.

well that's how good developers work. A video game is always based first on game mechanics. Basing a story and then making game mechanics around that story turn in to most of the trash we get from film to video game conversions.

But I really dont believe the story is all that hard to follow. You guys keep saying that the idea of games taking place in a different realm is too complicated or hard to understand but there have been quite a few Zelda games that state up-front "This adventure takes place in a different realm."

As for the Oracle games, at the very start of the game, you are traveling through Hyrule on Epona and you find a temple. This is the same temple you find in both oracle games it is only that in each scenario it is one of the Godesses that asks you to prove yourself, Nayru or Din.

When you choose yes, the world melts and you fall through the ground in to a void. When the screen comes back up you are in a place that you have never seen before and must be a different realm. The game booklet states this as well. Not to mention Link's Awakening which takes place on an island that doesn't exist in our realm, and when you awaken the Windfish he tells you that you're in his dream and when he awakens, the dream will vanish. Sure enough, when the Windfish awakens, Koholint vanishes and you wake up on the wreckage of your boat. The entire game, you were playing in a different realm.

It's really not all that complicated.

Oracles... now I remember us discussing this before! Can't believe I forgot... right. My argument was that it's impossible for Oracles to come between LttP and LA because in Oracles Link is young while in LttP and LA he is a teenager. Yes, the sprite is the same, but the cutscene and manual art gives it away.

So given his age, Oracles is either a solo duology or comes after MM. The LoZ/AoL Link is also older, the TWW Link to the best of our knowledge has no Hyrule castle like that to go to, and I just doubt that FS was meant to use that Link (given that Oracles was made before either Four Swords).

Lazy: Yes, the LA island is in another realm (a dream). Oracles... I don't know. It could be interpreted as being another world or something or it could be interpreted as transporting you to somewhere that needs your help... given that characters from the other games are there too (and not just as reincarnations I think) I think it makes more sense to say that you were transported to a trouble spot somewhere in the same world that Hyrule is in.

ABF, that's gotta be the worst way possible to tell where each game fits, going by the art. Seriously. Going with that logic, the Four Swords and Minish Cap take place right after Wind Waker since they share the same character art (and it's a proven fact that they do not take place around the same time, or even the same century). And even if you look at the official art, Link only looks a bit older in LA than he does in the Oracles because of Oracles' more cartoony art style. Take a look for yourself:

Oracles Link:

LA Link:



Lazy, where do the manuals state that? I'm looking at both of them right now, and there's absolutely nothing about the games taking place in different realms. They're only described as "a distant land" and "a strange land". Not different realms. And LA took place in the Windfish's dream, not a different realm like the Sacred Realm.

I'd take that artwork to PROVE my point, not disprove it.... Link is clearly far younger! Just look at the game intros (Link on Epona in Oracles and Link on the ship rigging in LA). It's quite obvious that that is not a similarly aged Link. You can't explain it all away with art style.

Oh yeah?? Well what about this piece of official LA art:



He looks like a baby!

No, I would definitely agree that he looks like a teenager in LA's cut-scenes and more child like in the Oracle's in-game cut scenes, art style a side; He is physically more mature looking in LA. Look at Marin in that last picture you posted OB1, she is definitely more of a teenager than child, and Link and Zelda are always the same age in every game.

The other thing is, in the Oracle games, Link is the Hero of Time still, as he has the Mark of the Triforce on his hand and he is riding a younger Epona (same markings and color). Only the Hero of Time has the mark on his hand. in LA, Link is the hero from LttP, as the booklet explains. Not the Hero of Time.

And what do you mean a dream world isn't a "realm"? it is another "world" that exists outside our own, by definition a realm, or plane of existence. A Dream Realm. The Sacred Realm/Golden Land, is a seperate plane of existence hence the word "Realm" in the title, and since the Triforce sent you to these places in the oracle games, one could assume that Link is traveling in to the Sacred Realm, just as he did in LttP and OoT.

also, by stating that "Link has never seen these places before" and "a strange new world" and then adding "he was enveloped in light, and when he awoke..." etc, give you a pretty good idea that he's in the sacred realm right off the bat. In OoT, when you enter the Sacred Realm, you are enveloped in light and brought to a strange place where you are asleep and must awaken.

Quote:No, I would definitely agree that he looks like a teenager in LA's cut-scenes and more child like in the Oracle's in-game cut scenes, art style a side; He is physically more mature looking in LA. Look at Marin in that last picture you posted OB1, she is definitely more of a teenager than child, and Link and Zelda are always the same age in every game.

Actually I think ABF is right, I've looked at some official artwork from the GBA LttP port and it uses the same art style as the Oracle games, and Link definitely looks older. So I think you guys are right.

Quote:The other thing is, in the Oracle games, Link is the Hero of Time still, as he has the Mark of the Triforce on his hand and he is riding a younger Epona (same markings and color). Only the Hero of Time has the mark on his hand. in LA, Link is the hero from LttP, as the booklet explains. Not the Hero of Time.

Hmm, I forgot about that. That's a good point. So I'm going to have to agree with you that the Oracle games take place right after MM. Here's my new theory that I just told ABF on msn:

OoT has two different endings, and two different games that take off from each ending, thus making two different timelines. WW takes place after the teen Link ending, and MM takes place after the kid Link ending. I think that the Oracles take place after MM, and then LA after the Oracles, not LttP.

LA could also take place after LttP, but I still believe that Capcom wanted to make the ending of Oracle work right into the beginning of LA. And is there anything really keeping that theory from working? Seriously, I'm wondering that.

Quote:And what do you mean a dream world isn't a "realm"? it is another "world" that exists outside our own, by definition a realm, or plane of existence. A Dream Realm. The Sacred Realm/Golden Land, is a seperate plane of existence hence the word "Realm" in the title, and since the Triforce sent you to these places in the oracle games, one could assume that Link is traveling in to the Sacred Realm, just as he did in LttP and OoT.

I don't think the Windfish's dream world is similar enough to the Dark World, the Sacred Realm. But I guess you could say it counts...

Quote:also, by stating that "Link has never seen these places before" and "a strange new world" and then adding "he was enveloped in light, and when he awoke..." etc, give you a pretty good idea that he's in the sacred realm right off the bat. In OoT, when you enter the Sacred Realm, you are enveloped in light and brought to a strange place where you are asleep and must awaken.

Then why is Holodrum and that other place referenced in Minish Cap as distant lands? Surely those regular townsfolk don't know anything about the Sacred Realm.

I have no clue. :D

I cant wait to to find out what happens in the Minish Cap storyline, but it could very well be that Minish Cap takes place in the Sacred Realm as well which means the Sacred Realm has multiple cities at one time. If it doesn't and is actually taking place in Hyrule, then we can only assume that Holodrum and Labyrnia (I think that's the spelling) are actual places somewhere else on the planet. But what gets me is that in the oracle games, you get to meet two of the godesses Din and Nayru... and I could only assume that they exist in the Sacred Realm and not on earth.

I'll let you know if the game takes place in the Sacred Realm.

Quote:Oh yeah?? Well what about this piece of official LA art:



He looks like a baby!

It's the pose, OB1. He's a teenager there. :) How can I say that? Uhh... because in other art he looks older and because, as Lazy says, the major female characters (read: usually Zelda) are usually the same age as him, and Marin there doesn't look ten. :)

Oh, and that's an intereresting piese of art... I might have seen it before, I'm not sure...

Quote:also, by stating that "Link has never seen these places before" and "a strange new world" and then adding "he was enveloped in light, and when he awoke..." etc, give you a pretty good idea that he's in the sacred realm right off the bat. In OoT, when you enter the Sacred Realm, you are enveloped in light and brought to a strange place where you are asleep and must awaken.

You're kind of enveloped in light when you go in a transporter in Star Trek and you usually aren't going to alternate universes. Sorry, that's not proof of anything.

Quote:I don't think the Windfish's dream world is similar enough to the Dark World, the Sacred Realm. But I guess you could say it counts...

Do we really know enough about the Dark World/Sacred Realm to say what it is, really?



MC
FS/FSA
OoT
MM
OoA/S
WW
LttP
LA
LoZ
AoL
The Zelda Cartoon. :D

Why are you replying to an old post of mine when I changed my mind and am currently talking to you on msn about it?

Because I did. And other people can't hear us talk about it on MSN.

You're so ABF.

Quote:The other thing is, in the Oracle games, Link is the Hero of Time still, as he has the Mark of the Triforce on his hand and he is riding a younger Epona (same markings and color). Only the Hero of Time has the mark on his hand. in LA, Link is the hero from LttP, as the booklet explains. Not the Hero of Time.

Hey I just found out that Link in AoL has that triforce mark on his hand as well. Look for yourself: http://www.zhq2.com/aolstory.htm



Try to explain that, why dontcha. :p

Also what exactly does the LA booklet say that suggests that it definitely happens right after LttP and not another Zelda game?

hahaha

ABF, the surrounding light and other stuff I said always pertains to entering the Sacred Realm in the Zelda universe. They might just transport on Star Trek, but in Zelda, Light + Waking up in a strange place is always the Sacred Realm. When you transport through time or space in LA or the Oracle games, Link spins really fast and flies upwards with a swooshing sound. No melting walls and enveloping lights.

I could counter argue what I just said by stating that in OoT and MM, when Link transports to different areas, like say for example a hole in the ground, he is enveloped by light. But two characteristics shows me that he's not entering the Sacred Realm. One, when you exit the hole by standing on the 'warp pad', he flies upwards. And two, he does not lose consciousness after transporting.

Don't you think that's reading into something as cliche as surrounding light a bit too much? ;)

And read my above post, please. About the AoL picture.

It doesn't say EXACTLY, but as I said I just feel that the similarities ('Legendary Hero', the character's age matching (the age thing rules out most of the Zelda games (MC, FS, OoT, Oracles...)... only AoL and LttP are places where it really fits... and while it could be either one, I think LttP makes more sense than putting it after AoL. Oh, the 'after destroying Ganon' thing also limits things. It cannot be right after OoT then, right? As that Link doesn't remember destroying Ganon... Oracles does fit there but the age rules that out. So it's still either LttP or AoL.)

As for the mark, I thought that other Links had had one too, not just the Hero of Time... and the artwork proves it. :)

Finally, something I thought of.

http://www.zhq2.com/aolstory.htm

Reading it all seems to suggest that, at the end, there are two Zeldas... right? One Zelda that is the one in Hyrule and one who is the ancient one who you saved?


As for the Multiple Timeline Theory. Interesting.

http://www.zhq2.com/article_multiple_timeline.htm

presents a pretty good case... I'd rather make it simple and say that all of the games are on the same timeline, though. If you make it into TWO... it becomes hopelessly confused... so are all of the games before OoT in a timeline, then all of the games except WW after OoT in a timeline, and WW in a side timeline all alone? Strange... I'd rather try to explain it away in one timeline. But the seals thing, and what Aonuma said, argue against that...

OB1, I posted the story from LA's booklet twice in this thread. :D It says at the very start that Link has just defeated GANON and saved Hyrule, but people are still scared that he will return, so Link ventures out to seek more knowledge on who GANON was and who he is himself.

As far as the Triforce mark on his hand in Adventures of Link, read the story for AoL. It explains that it is not the Triforce in his hand, but a mark created by a spell. The Hero of Time actually has the Triforce of Courage in his hand, not just a symbol.

Oh, no I dont think i'm reading in to it too much :D not at all :D

But the idea is simple, everytime Link has been enveloped in light and wakes up after being knocked out it's because he entered a new realm. Every time he floats or flies to one location or another after standing on a pad or warp point, he is simply transporting.

Quote:OB1, I posted the story from LA's booklet twice in this thread. It says at the very start that Link has just defeated GANON and saved Hyrule, but people are still scared that he will return, so Link ventures out to seek more knowledge on who GANON was and who he is himself.

Ah, I did not read those entire long-ass posts. :D

So... why's Link fighting GANON so unique to LttP? He also fought Ganon in LoZ, WW, OoT, etc...

As for the transporting... I definitely feel that those lands are somewhere on the same world as Hyrule. How did other people we recognize get there from Hyrule then? I doubt that all of them were transported by the Triforce!

OB1 Wrote:Ah, I did not read those entire long-ass posts. :D

So... why's Link fighting GANON so unique to LttP? He also fought Ganon in LoZ, WW, OoT, etc...

Well read them, they're important to understanding the story. :)

It cant be the first Legend of Zelda because there is no Hyrule Castle or townspeople.

It cant be Wind Waker because that Link was last seen roaming an endless ocean in search of Hyrule, or a new land. And again, there are no Hyrule townspeople or Hyrule Castle.

Finally, it cant be OoT because the Hero of Time is not in Link's Awakening and as we know, Link went to Termina and then performed trials for the Triforce in Labrynna and Holodrum after the events of OoT. This is shown by the Link in the Oracle series having the Triforce of Courage in his hand, riding Epona and his age would fit the events, since he was 10 in OoT, probably 12 in MM and 15 in the Oracle series.

It only fits logically if LA happens right after LttP (within a few months/years). Both for the story in the booklet and the more in-depth in-game story. The same goes with the Oracle series happening after OoT.

OB1 has a short attention span for long posts and covers it by saying things anyway irrespective of how correct they are... but yes, that latest post seems right in that Oracles comes after OoT and LA comes after LttP. While Oracles may seem to lead into LA, it just doesn't. The only story aspect that fits is the presence of a ship... not any of the details.

Why don't you go ABF yourself, ABF.

Lazy, the problem with basing much of your timeline theories on NOA's booklets is that during the NES/SNES era, they were notorious for their false information and bad translations. Hell, they even released their own official Zelda timeline just a few years ago which made no sense whatsoever. If anything, the only real argument one can have to place LA right after LttP is that is was made right after that game. But even then Nintendo could have shuffled it around since its place in the timeline was not absolute. Right now I think LA could go just about anywhere, but it makes sense for it to take place after the Oracles. Probably a bit more sense to take place after LttP, but there's really no definite answer right now.

I think so too, but what i'd like to know is, does the Link in Minish Cap have the Triforce on his hand and does the Link in the GC Zelda have it too...

I don't believe he does, but I'm only a couple hours into the game so what do I know.

One intersting thing is the intro of MC, which shows a hatless Link with what looks just like the Master Sword, but is called the Picori Blade, made by the Picori people. You can see the screens over here: http://www.zhq2.com/tmcstory.htm

Nintendo says that MC takes place before all of the other Zelda games and that this one tells how Link got his famous hat. And going by the intro it looks like the previous Link(s?) did not have hats, but rather nice, full mullets. :D So my point is... well I have no point. I just thought that was neat.

That sword is the Four Sword. It's what you get at the begining of Four Swords Adventure.

Quote:Lazy, the problem with basing much of your timeline theories on NOA's booklets is that during the NES/SNES era, they were notorious for their false information and bad translations. Hell, they even released their own official Zelda timeline just a few years ago which made no sense whatsoever.

But I just posted all the booklets and everything matches up. Impa was even talked about in the very first Zelda on NES. We have to go by the booklets and the in-game stories, otherwise we're just making things up.

"Far, far in the past, a beast appeared in the country of Hyrule. When the world was on the brink of being swallowed in darkness, the small Pikkoru appeared from the heavens. To a human hero they gave the Golden Light and one sword.

(The Golden light? could the beast be GANON or is he not a part of the time line yet?)

The hero, with Wisdom and Courage, Light and Sword, fought the beasts, and returned peace to the world.

(With Wisdom and Courage? The Golden Light... Light Arrows? The only time Link had the Triforce of Wisdom and Courage was in Zelda 1 and AoL so this must be a story we haven't seen yet)

In thanks to the Pikkoru, the "Pikkoru Festival" was made to be held once a year. Since then, a long time has passed, and even the Pikkoru became a legend....

(yeah, except we're only hearing about them now :D Oh... unless the Pikkoru are faries...)

The Princess of Hyrule, Zelda, has come to invite Link, her childhood friend, so they can go to the festival together. In the Country of Hyrule there is a Legend. It says 'Once every hundred years, a secret doorway is opened, and the Pikkoru will come.

(Every one hundred years a Gerudo male is born... but that doesn't seem to mean anything here. "A secret doorway..." and "from the heavens" has got to be the Sacred Realm)

This year is that hundredth year, and there is an exceptionally grand festival.

To share in the Hero's good fortune, a "Martial Arts Tournament" is held at the Castle during the festival. This year's winner was Vaati, a man wielding suspicious [magics.]

(Here come da JUDGE!)

The other contestants weren't even able to get close to him, and Vaati easily won. However, there was not a single person who knew who this black-clad man was."

("An evil man from the desert wearing black armor." = Gannondorf)

In Four Swords Adventure after you defeat Vaati, GANON laughs and says "so this is the great Vaati... pathetic." and then you fight GANON. So it could either be that Vaati is the black soul of Gannondorf (GANON having no soul) or Vaati is a totally seperate entity.

In the Oracle games, Vaati and Onix didn't want the Triforce, they wanted the Goddesses themselves so they could use their souls to control time. Gannondorf was the first great evil to go after the Triforce itself.

His point is that NOA wasn't completely faithful to the original Japanese booklets... which, I'm sure, is a good point, but given that we don't know Japanese and I don't know of sites which say what they said, all we can go with is what we know.

Quote:That sword is the Four Sword. It's what you get at the begining of Four Swords Adventure.

But that's the magical sword the legendary hero uses whenever Hyrule needs saving. And it looks just like the Master Sword. Why would later Links not use the same sword, but rather a different, similar-looking magical sword?

Quote:But I just posted all the booklets and everything matches up. Impa was even talked about in the very first Zelda on NES. We have to go by the booklets and the in-game stories, otherwise we're just making things up.

Well a lot of this is basically making stuff up. There's an interesting article at zhq that looks at all of the poor translations and misinterpretations NOA has made with Zelda manuals and such over the years. It's under the story section, check it out.

Quote:"Far, far in the past, a beast appeared in the country of Hyrule. When the world was on the brink of being swallowed in darkness, the small Pikkoru appeared from the heavens. To a human hero they gave the Golden Light and one sword.

(The Golden light? could the beast be GANON or is he not a part of the time line yet?)

It sure looked like Ganon.

Quote:The hero, with Wisdom and Courage, Light and Sword, fought the beasts, and returned peace to the world.

(With Wisdom and Courage? The Golden Light... Light Arrows? The only time Link had the Triforce of Wisdom and Courage was in Zelda 1 and AoL so this must be a story we haven't seen yet)

Well of course not, MC takes place before all of the other Zelda games, remember?

Quote:In thanks to the Pikkoru, the "Pikkoru Festival" was made to be held once a year. Since then, a long time has passed, and even the Pikkoru became a legend....

(yeah, except we're only hearing about them now Oh... unless the Pikkoru are faries...)

They're more like Pikmin, actually. :)

Quote:The Princess of Hyrule, Zelda, has come to invite Link, her childhood friend, so they can go to the festival together. In the Country of Hyrule there is a Legend. It says 'Once every hundred years, a secret doorway is opened, and the Pikkoru will come.

(Every one hundred years a Gerudo male is born... but that doesn't seem to mean anything here. "A secret doorway..." and "from the heavens" has got to be the Sacred Realm)

From what I can tell so far, that's pretty much just a "doorway" to the Picori who are tiny people. So that doorway is turning small and visiting them or something. Maybe I'll find out more later. Nothing about the Sacred Realm so far. Nothing obvious, at least.

Quote:The other contestants weren't even able to get close to him, and Vaati easily won. However, there was not a single person who knew who this black-clad man was."

("An evil man from the desert wearing black armor." = Gannondorf)

In Four Swords Adventure after you defeat Vaati, GANON laughs and says "so this is the great Vaati... pathetic." and then you fight GANON. So it could either be that Vaati is the black soul of Gannondorf (GANON having no soul) or Vaati is a totally seperate entity.

I'm pretty certain that they're two different entities.

Quote:In the Oracle games, Vaati and Onix didn't want the Triforce, they wanted the Goddesses themselves so they could use their souls to control time. Gannondorf was the first great evil to go after the Triforce itself.

Vaati wasn't in the Oracle games, Ganon was. Twinrova were trying to resurrect Ganon but could only revive a "mindless, raging Ganon".

Quote:His point is that NOA wasn't completely faithful to the original Japanese booklets... which, I'm sure, is a good point, but given that we don't know Japanese and I don't know of sites which say what they said, all we can go with is what we know.

Right, and we don't know just how accurate our information is.

Right, I would agree with that, ABF

In the booklets there are alot of mispelled items and people, etc. But the story is still relevent to the timeline.

The Oracle games gave us two new characters that seem to be very important to the timeline and they are Onix and Vaati. Vaati is also the main antagonist in both Four Swords games and, it would seem, in Minish Cap as well, but as a person and not a spirit. It would be interesting to see if Onix appears in Minish Cap, though it could be simply that Onix was destroyed in Oracle of Seasons and didn't have enough evil juju to reincarnate himself. Going by the timeline that is presented in Minish Cap - > Four Swords -> Four Swords Adventures I would say that Vaati is the main antagonist and is destroyed for good in FSA. Which is the first time (that we know of) that Link faced GANON (But not Gannondorf).

So now i'm thinking that GANON possibly existed before Ganonndorf. GANON, being the king of darkness, is trying to come in to our world and uses whatever evil person in our world as a host. Gannondorf has access to the Triforce of Power, so he has become the default choice for GANON... as Gannondorf has the most power on earth.

In Zelda 1 you face GANON, in LoA GANON's henchmen are trying to revive him by sacrificing Link and using his blood to revive him.

In LttP, there are ancient stories of Gannondorf but only GANON exists. The ancient stories of Gannondorf are probably from the legends passed down from OoT's time line.

OoT is the ONLY GAME to have Link face Gannondorf, kill him, and then fight and destroy GANON. Sending Gannondorf in to the Sacred Realm, where Link fights him a second time (Wind Waker). But this time only as Gannondorf who uses very little magic and relies on his swords and martial arts (much like Vaati does in Minish cap). In essense, this is the least powerful form of Gannondorf and only the second time we ever get to fight him.

~NES~
Zelda 1 = GANON
AoL = The Thunderbird and Dark Link (Is it just yourself, or is this Vaati or Nightmare? is Nightmare Vaati? is Vaati the essense of GANON? if so, why does it choose the form of Link? Dark Link sort of comes back in OoT in the Water Temple, but he is called Shadow Link, not Dark Link.)

~SNES~
LttP = Agahnim (what is left of Gannondorf) and GANON
LA = Nightmare (again, Vaati or GANON?)

~N64~
OoT = Gannondorf and GANON
MM = Majora's Mask (I dunno what relation the mask has to any other great evil. in fact i dont think the mask itself is evil)

~GC~
WW = Gannondorf (creates a puppet of GANON but is not real)

~GB~
OoA = Vaati
OoS = Onix

~GBA/GC~
Four Swords = Vaati
Four Swords Adventures = Vaati
Minish Cap = Vaati

So in Zelda 1 and OoT, we face GANON. We face Gannondorf in OoT and WW. And the rest is mostly Vaati.

I think Vaati plays a huge role in how GANON and Gannondorf come to be.

Did't Veran reveal itself to be Vaati?

Quote:The hero, with Wisdom and Courage, Light and Sword, fought the beasts, and returned peace to the world.

(With Wisdom and Courage? The Golden Light... Light Arrows? The only time Link had the Triforce of Wisdom and Courage was in Zelda 1 and AoL so this must be a story we haven't seen yet)


Well of course not, MC takes place before all of the other Zelda games, remember?

Yes, it happens before all other Zelda games, which means all other Zelda games are sequals to Minish Cap. And because of the paradox created by Link's time travel (OoT, OoA) it is possible that there could be a rift at some point connecting Minish Cap to a future story. As in, Minish Cap turns out to be the future, or sequal of Oracle of Ages based on what Link did in the time line. So our past is Link's future and vise versa. That's what a Paradox is.

Quote:Well a lot of this is basically making stuff up. There's an interesting article at zhq that looks at all of the poor translations and misinterpretations NOA has made with Zelda manuals and such over the years. It's under the story section, check it out.

Yeah it's pretty funny. But like i said the poor translations are with items, places, names, etc. Not the story itself. Like in Zelda 1, the Master Sword is called the Magical Sword. If we just make stuff up and do not use the games and their booklets as guidelines we might as well just forget the story exists and treat it like a Final Fantasy where nothing is connected and each story is it's own deminsion.

Speaking of which:

Quote:But that's the magical sword the legendary hero uses whenever Hyrule needs saving. And it looks just like the Master Sword. Why would later Links not use the same sword, but rather a different, similar-looking magical sword?

The Four Sword is the Master Sword, but it hasn't been blessed yet by the Goddesses and engraved with their symbol (the same symbol the knights of Hyrule had engraved on their armor and swords in respect to the legendary Hero (Link))

Quote:Yeah it's pretty funny. But like i said the poor translations are with items, places, names, etc. Not the story itself. Like in Zelda 1, the Master Sword is called the Magical Sword. If we just make stuff up and do not use the games and their booklets as guidelines we might as well just forget the story exists and treat it like a Final Fantasy where nothing is connected and each story is it's own deminsion.

Why is it that they say that the Japanese story has LttP after LoZ and AoL then, as opposed to before it...

Quote:Did't Veran reveal itself to be Vaati?

I don't think so... possibly, but I doubt it. it's Veran.

Oh, and LA isn't a SNES game. :) I know what you mean by putting it there, but it's not a SNES game.

Quote:Yes, it happens before all other Zelda games, which means all other Zelda games are sequals to Minish Cap. And because of the paradox created by Link's time travel (OoT, OoA) it is possible that there could be a rift at some point connecting Minish Cap to a future story. As in, Minish Cap turns out to be the future, or sequal of Oracle of Ages based on what Link did in the time line. So our past is Link's future and vise versa. That's what a Paradox is.

Until they put another game before MC. :) Remember, when OoT came out it was the earliest Zelda game, and same with LttP...

I greatly doubt that there is some strange time warp or something. Nintendo just does not think things through and as a result we get ten reincarnations of Tingle.

Quote:So now i'm thinking that GANON possibly existed before Ganonndorf. GANON, being the king of darkness, is trying to come in to our world and uses whatever evil person in our world as a host. Gannondorf has access to the Triforce of Power, so he has become the default choice for GANON... as Gannondorf has the most power on earth.

Why do you consider them separate beings? I look at Ganon as just "mighty morphin'" Gannondorf. Just Gannondorf with the power of the triforce. Why else would they share the same basic name?

Quote:I think Vaati plays a huge role in how GANON and Gannondorf come to be.

That would be cool if Nintendo decided to establish that as fact.

Quote:Did't Veran reveal itself to be Vaati?

I don't remember that happening. Here's the ending of the game: http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/gbc/b/zeldaa.htm

Quote:Yes, it happens before all other Zelda games, which means all other Zelda games are sequals to Minish Cap. And because of the paradox created by Link's time travel (OoT, OoA) it is possible that there could be a rift at some point connecting Minish Cap to a future story. As in, Minish Cap turns out to be the future, or sequal of Oracle of Ages based on what Link did in the time line. So our past is Link's future and vise versa. That's what a Paradox is.

I highly doubt Nintendo is going to go that nuts on us.

Quote:Yeah it's pretty funny. But like i said the poor translations are with items, places, names, etc. Not the story itself. Like in Zelda 1, the Master Sword is called the Magical Sword. If we just make stuff up and do not use the games and their booklets as guidelines we might as well just forget the story exists and treat it like a Final Fantasy where nothing is connected and each story is it's own deminsion.

Inaccurate translations can result in more than just different item names. They can change the entire meaning of sentences.

Quote:The Four Sword is the Master Sword, but it hasn't been blessed yet by the Goddesses and engraved with their symbol (the same symbol the knights of Hyrule had engraved on their armor and swords in respect to the legendary Hero (Link))

... interesting, but where did you get that info from? An educated guess?

Quote:I greatly doubt that there is some strange time warp or something. Nintendo just does not think things through and as a result we get ten reincarnations of Tingle.

Yes exactly.

Alright lazy, I found out something in Minish Cap that makes me pretty confident that the game does not take place in the Sacred Realm, which also means that the Oracle games do not take place in the Sacred Realm. I'd tell you why but I don't want to spoil anything for you, even if it's relatively minor. :)

I just found out some really cool stuff in MC that's going to change some of our theories. So hurry up and get the game so we can discuss it! :D

I'm going to Wal*Mart tomorrow anyway. (I have to get a new uniform for work until they provide us with custom uniforms. Lame, I know.) While I'm there, I'll see about picking up Minish Cap.

I dont have it yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only five dungeons. :(

Awesome, though.

Didn't the reviews say six dungeons?

Beats me.

Five dungeons? Damn, that's more disappointing than the fact that you hardly had to do shit in order to obtain Nayru's Pearl in Wind Waker. (Though there was the Tower of the Gods after that, but still...)

The length and challenge of the dungeons matters too though... MM had five dungeons (if you count the boss one) and no one complains about it being too short or easy...

Everyone complains about MM's three-day time limit instead.

Yeah, it's possibly the hardest Zelda game and it has probably the fewest dungeons... the point is number isn't everything. Other factors matter a lot too.

Minish Cap is not a short game. It'll take the experienced gamer at least 20 hours to finish, which is perfect in my book. Suckier gamers will get 30 hours out of it. And completists will get 40+, easily.