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Nintendo blames... itsself???
#1
http://cube.ign.com/articles/423/423939p1.html
Quote:June 13, 2003 - In a report by Yahoo Asia News, Nintendo admitted that software sales for its current-generation GameCube console have been sluggish.

"Our software has not been widely accepted by consumers," said Ken Toyoda, Nintendo of Japan's public relations head.

Toyoda also noted that it's difficult to develop software that can appeal to both beginner and expert players.


What, not going to say again that people are less interested in video games? :)
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#2
I guess they finally figured out that video games are still at an all time high and their GBA shows it (around here, Wario Ware is VERY popular and has been selling out, for instance, though I managed to snag the last copy at a store a couple days ago).

Sure is hard to make a game that appeals to both expert and beginner players. The trick is to have the game be easy at the start and progress to super hard by the end, or difficulty levels. I prefer the former. I mean, they used to do this sort of thing all the time.
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#3
The trick is to have the game be easy at the start and progress to super hard by the end, or difficulty levels

I hate that in games...I prefer something akin to Remake, where the difficulty is consistent, and rather than getting harder, you just need to have patience. Remake had a downright simple, quick ending; but I enjoyed it...made it more like a movie, a story, and less like a game.
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#4
Its definitely better when it gets harder as you go along... more frusterating? Sure! But it makes you WORK for it! When the difficulty stays the same (unless its hard from the beginning...) it means that it won't be nearly as hard to get through -- it just takes patience, not determination...
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#5
It's confirmed you don't like challenge, so I'm not surprised you wouldn't want a game to get harder as it goes on. But, for those who DO love challenge, having difficulty climb as the game goes on (the sharper the rate, the better :D) is simply great! I mean, Tetris would certainly not have as much of a draw if the first difficulty level was the ONLY level, and it would be too hard to learn if the highest speed was the only level (midway? Same as one for me, leaving out the greater challenge, that's not right!), so the absolute best choice is for the game to get harder as you get better. The best curve in my opinion is for the game to get harder at just slightly above the learning curve, for the game to always be just a little harder than you are capable of.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
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#6
Yeah... when the difficulty level is constant its just not as fun! You go through at the same pace, always being slightly challenged but never really finding any truly unexpected challenges or anything, and not really needing to improve at the game... that's not the way to have a fun challenge!

Well it is if you like games permanantly stuck on Easy, but not if you want to have more fun and challenge yourself... its just not as fun to win when the game is easy!
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#7
That's why some games have difficulty selection, for a set rate througout. Nice because I can still have an amazing challenge while at the same time I have a mode ot get used to it, but the more satysfying gameplay I think is, as I said, when the game gets harder and harder as it goes on, like Metroid Prime for instance. That game had perfect difficulty scale I'd say, with the first boss being almost boring, and the last boss being so utterly hard that even now I don't always win against it.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
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#8
Yeah, difficulty levels are a very good thing. They just have to be balanced well -- Easy should be easy, but not TOO easy... and hte others should be not overly too big a step up...

Like Dungeon Siege. The game is very, very easy on Easy, but bump it to Normal and its suddenly quite challenging and you can die fairly often... not fun either way, really, IMO...
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#9
Yeah Metroid Prime had a perfect difficulty level, methinks. WW, which you all know I love to death, would have been as good as Prime if it were as difficult as ALttP. OoT was already easy, so making it even easier than that was a bad idea.
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#10
Yeah, MP does a very good job with difficulty level. OoT had a good one, but it could have been harder... it wasn't as hard as the 2d games, really. Still not easy... but yeah, not as hard as the 2d ones.

But the diffrence between WW and OoT? Dramatic. Not anywhere near close. WW is much, much easier.
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#11
Yeah but both were very easy for me so it doesn't really matter.
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#12
Perhaps if the fairy had kept her opinion to herself OOT would have been far harder.

It's a bad trend that games are doing all these hinty things. Megaman X5 for instance introduced the most evil reploid ever, Alia! Thanks for freezing me mid-jump to tell me exactly how to find a capsule I wanted to find myself, then releasing me unexpectedly so I drop to my death! She's that annoying friend who talks, and talks...., and talks....

It's one thing to include a built-in training mode to learn how to do things in the game. A training level, where the Alia thing is ONLY done in that level, is a fine idea. I also think it's a great idea to have a small amount of text describing how to use an item. However, in the latter cases I hate it when they don't just describe how to use it, but unusual ways to use it that you should have been forced to figure out! Don't tell me that "the gun can also be used to activate switches" ever again! I want to figure that out myself!
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
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#13
Well I was challenged by OoT. As I've said, it took me a month and I died a lot and got stuck plenty of times. In WW, while I have gotten stuck sometimes in puzzles, I haven't died and have found combat pathetically easy... there's just one time that I had any chance of dying in a battle and that's because I didn't know how to hurt the enemies. But I had two health potions in thatt battle, so no problem... :(

And OoT only tells you where to go next in the most general terms, which means that you spend a lot of time exploring and looking around for what to do next... unlike WW where it makes it abundantly clear exactly where to go and what to do. That's annoying, and not really welcome.

I get the picture -- you found it a lot easier then I did. Okay. But it is true that OoT has far, far fewer hints than WW and many of those hints are entirely optional -- QUITE unlike WW's hints! And that's really annoying! Not as bad as the pathetic difficulty of the combat, but quite annoying...

I know you disagree, but I'd rather see a enemy mix closer to OoT or MM's percentages then WW, no question. Lots of swordfights? I just don't see why you find that so great...

As for X5 its really not that bad. Alia doesn't talk that much... you make it sound like she's constantly talking! She's not... its infrequent outside of the training level and its not like it gives away secrets of how to find the truly hidden items or anything...
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#14
I think most of that is aimed at OB1 more than me. I was only giving my opinion on it, not "correcting" you.

As far as Alia, yeah, she does talk all the time. She usually has something to say at least 3 times during a level, which is too much if you ask me, though I suppose it's not constantly. Plus, she went out and told me how to blow up a door and my character did it automatically at a certain point. Oh well...

In any case, regarding OOT, if you mean the fairy, I wouldn't call them optional because the hints kept flashing and making a sound, which is just too annoying to be expected to ignore. I do agree that OOT is harder than WW mind you, I'm just saying that the fairy was, though technically optional, wasn't really optional in practice due to the annoyance factor of wanting to shut it up.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
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#15
After playing all of the previous Zelda games, OoT was pretty easy to beat. And Navi with her stupid hints only made things easier. Sequels should be tougher, I believe. That's why I enjoyed Mario Sunshine and Metroid Prime so damn much. I mean others will complain until the end of time about how they hated Mario Sunshine because of the lack of variety between levels, but I don't care since the great challenge was just so refreshing.
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#16
DJ, only the last paragraph of that post was responding to your post. :) And she talks some, but its not really bothersome... and anyway this is Mega Man -- its not the most complex series, and they don't give away the hard part (finding the hidden armor parts).

As for optional, yeah, it would be hard to ignore her... but its physically possible. And there are other ones that you don't have to do... like asking people for hints or something. Or like in Link's Awakening with the phones. As opposed to WW, where you CANNOT avoid the hints -- they pop up on the screen. How helpful! I really wanted to know how to completely spoil the fun of that puzzle/boss!

Navi... not awful, but she did get a bit annoying. I did like being able to target and get info about things, but sometimes she was annoying... but I don't remember her hints being as frequent or as obvious as the ones in WW! And she didn't tell you exactly where to go next, either...

Oh, and Mario Sunshine was great, but no way is it better than Mario 64. More innovation and more variety means 64 is better.
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#17
So by that logic I take it that you like Mario 1 more than Mario World, right? Mario 1 is more innovative and there is more variety in the levels so it has to be better, right?
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#18
Erm... SMW has less variety of levels than SMB? Since when?

And the features difference between SMB and SMW is much more dramatic than it is between SM64 and SMS.
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#19
Well Mario World only had a few basic themes (that weren't really that different from each other), unlike most Mario games where there would be lava worlds, snow worlds, etc. And yes the difference between Mario 64 and Sunshine is closer to Mario 3 and Mario World, but the difference there is that Sunshine is the one that's challenging (like Mario 3), not Mario 64.
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#20
Well SMB1 had just four kinds of levels (not counting the different background colors, which really don't change much...). SMW has far, far more variety than that. :)
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#21
No it didn't. In Mario World there were two basic areas: outside and underground. All they did was add a few things to each level such as water, trees, etc. The themes were basically identical.

But perhaps Mario 2 would be better for this comparison.
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#22
Quote:Originally posted by OB1
Well Mario World only had a few basic themes (that weren't really that different from each other), unlike most Mario games where there would be lava worlds, snow worlds, etc. And yes the difference between Mario 64 and Sunshine is closer to Mario 3 and Mario World, but the difference there is that Sunshine is the one that's challenging (like Mario 3), not Mario 64.


Mario Sunshine is challenging? If you had no thumbs, perhaps. I beat SMS in under a week, M64 took me over a month.
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#23
Wha? Well then you must have been blindfolded while playing Mario 64 since I beat that in just a week, and that was the first 3D platformer I ever played.

Hmm... who else here found Mario 64 to be more challenging? That's very odd.

How difficult was Metroid Prime for you? I had a tougher time with Sunshine.
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#24
Quote:Originally posted by OB1
Wha? Well then you must have been blindfolded while playing Mario 64 since I beat that in just a week, and that was the first 3D platformer I ever played.

Hmm... who else here found Mario 64 to be more challenging? That's very odd.

How difficult was Metroid Prime for you? I had a tougher time with Sunshine.


SMS was too damn easy because of the water pack. All those perfect jumps you had to make in M64 you could now screw up with a margin of error because of the hoverpack.

The ONLY challenging parts of SMS where the special stages, when you didn't have the pack.

And of course the challenge aside, SMS just wasn't nearly as fun as M64 either.

Metroid though? I'm about halfway through it right now, and I really don't find it to be much of a challenge yet, except for these Space Pirate gauntlets, those are bitches.
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#25
Hmm... Just adding up level types myself, don't mind me, not taking sides...

SMB1 had...

Standard overworld
tree tops
underground
castle
underwater
bridge

That's 6 basic types

SMW had...

plains
forest
castle/fortress
switch palace
funky special courses
underwater
cave
lava
tricky platform based ones
bridge
haunted houses

that's 11 basic types, plus most of them had autoscroll versions in the game

Just for fun now...

SMB3 had...

plains
fortress
flying ship
sky
desert
ice
pipe
giant
water
caves
tricky platform based ones
darkness (specifically the ones where you have limited vision and the level is designed with that in mind)

that's 12 this one has

Of course, this is all subject to one's opinions of what qualifies as a set "theme" for a level. One may not consider sky levels to be all that much different than the ones where one jumps from weird platform types through the whole thing. One also may consider that the "ice", "chocolate", and "night time" levels in SMB1, and the "chocolate" levels in SMW, qualify as their own types. I didn't think they qualified because they only affected look.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
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#26
Halfway eh? You sure about that?

And yes, the space pirate gauntlets with no save points for like 3 miles are rather tough. Wait until the first truly hard boss :D. Also, a lot of the challenge also comes from finding all those well hidden items.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
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#27
Well the thing with Mario World is that almost most of those types of levels you mentioned were almost identical to each other, minus a few little differenced like trees and such.
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#28
Yeah, in both themes and level design SMW has far, far much more variety than SMB. I don't see how you could argue it any other way, really...

I haven't beaten SMS or MP yet. Or Wind Waker. I'm working on Wind Waker, and occasionally Prime, but haven't played much Mario in a while... compared to Metroid and Zelda its just not as good.

Of course I felt exactly the same about Mario 64... which is why it took me the same number of days to beat SM64 and OoT when I played OoT a LOT more during that timeframe -- SM64 was great, but when compared to OoT it just paled...
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#29
Mmm....OoT did make everything else pale. Fortunately, I'd already beatn SM64 by then; even though SM64 is almost on par with OoT in terms of fun. Metroid and SMS...well...neither can compare to either OoT or SM64...or WW for that matter.
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#30
Mario 64 does not pale in comparison to OoT. It's almost as good as that game.

And have you played through all of Mario World, ABF? The variety of levels in the game equals that of Sunshine's. Adding a couple of trees and some water to a level doesn't make it a completely different theme.

Quote:SMS was too damn easy because of the water pack. All those perfect jumps you had to make in M64 you could now screw up with a margin of error because of the hoverpack.

The ONLY challenging parts of SMS where the special stages, when you didn't have the pack.

That's precisely why they made those mini-levels, Weltall. And they made the challenges with the water pack in mind, so it wasn't like they just made the game without considering and then added it in later.

Quote:And of course the challenge aside, SMS just wasn't nearly as fun as M64 either.

Well you're entitled to your own opinion, but the far superior controls, camera (it was only bad if the person controlling it was bad), and challenge place it far above Mario 64 for me. I can go back to Mario 64 and beat it with losing maybe one life, but whenever I play through Sunshine I die at least a couple dozen times.
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#31
Oh, SM64 was a great game. I had a lot of fun playing it. I played that one first... but when I then played OoT? Wow. Sure, I'd played it a little bit once in a store demo (as opposed to SM64, which I'd played in demo form several times as far back as summer 1996 and had played at a friends' house as well), and was expecting it to be great... but it was even better. The whole graphical style... stunning. That game blew away SM64 in sheer quality and fun... SM64 was a fun adventure, but Zelda was so much more...

And I did beat Mario World. Its got some variation... more than is in SMS for sure!

Oh, and SMS is a hard game. Probably harder than SM64... and sure, the jetpack is the only addition, really. But its a great addition and works very well in the game...
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#32
In Mario Sunshine there was the whole tropical theme and most of the levels looked pretty different from each other, but in Mario World (which I love) the levels looked basically the same. And at least Mario Sunshine did something different with the whole tropical island thing. I thought it was great.
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#33
It is great... we're just quantifying the relative greatness of these games. And IMO SMS doesn't quite match up to SM64...
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#34
After I give my humble opinion on SM64 paling next to OoT, OB1 says:

Mario 64 does NOT pale in comparison to OoT. It's almost as good as that game.

on the other hand, OB1 says in respect to Weltall...:

Well you're entitled to your own opinion.

Apparently, only Weltall is entitled to his opinion...or at least his is the only one that OB1 respects. Mine is just plain dumb. Oh well...but can we say hypocrite?
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#35
But everyone knows that Weltall is just inherently smarter than you and thus is much more deserving of respect, right?
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#36
Actually I was responding to ABF's comment, Darunia.
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#37
Who am I to argue with an artist that a tree is not the most beautiful thing on this earth?...

With that in mind, I have to say that SM64 and OoT are both amazing games. If Ihad to choose, I'd say OoT is the better game, but both were magnificent experiences.

I bought SM64 at launch and there is no other way to describe it than shock and awe. After living my entire life with 2D games, it was an exhilerating, intuitive, pee my pants, laugh like a school girl moment when I took my first steps in SM64. I played that entire game on a perpetual high.

But OoT slightly edges out Mario 64. From the first words of the Deku Tree to the frozen moment of Link meeting Zelda, the quest always seemed important, real. It was the perfect game to take the 3D genre and mold into an adventure game. It challenged my mind, spirit, and determination like no other quest.

Chalk it up to age, skepticism, or otherwise, but SMS and WW don't add the same amount of WOW as SM64 and Oot. They are good sequels. Judged without reference to time, they are better games than their predecessors. But they fall short of the improvement curve of the rest of the industry. They fail to introduce ideas in gaming that touch people.

I believe that WW an artistic masterpiece at moments. There are flashes of inspiration in WW: the swirling dust on Dragon Roost Island, the vibrant characters on Windfall Island, the endearing Koroks and Deku Tree, the kick-ass boomerang, the humanization of Ganondorf, the heart-wrenching sacrifice of the Hyrulian King, and the final battle. But if one view of the ocean is a striking vista, we are treated to 60 beautiful vistas a second. In Wind Waker, you will spend at least three hours simply crossing the ocean, which is 648,000 beautiful vistas throughout the game. But there is a diminishing return factor. After you've seen 100,000 beautiful vistas, it's hard to appreciate the other 548,000. The Dungeons, while beautiful and artfully created, are strikingly linear. The idea of character switching is used wonderfully, but it's not a completely new idea (ICO). If OoT was inventing the boomerang, WW was making the boomerang kickass.

I'm slightly more disappointed with SMS. The team must be commended for the freedom of movement in SMS. It's fun to just jump around the Lobby, kicking durians, sliding on the beach, rocketing across the water, and shooting up to rooftops. But as much as OB1 might contest, I FELT much less variety in the worlds of SMS than any predecessor. FLUDD is pretty neat, but it's not mind-blowing. I must admit that the water is beautiful, but if it wasn't, you'd be looking at something fugly for 99% of the game. The sub-levels were great, but they were essentially 2D platforming levels with a rarely-optimal camera. I feel SMS is a testament to the flaws of 3D platformers. Platforming is essentially a 2D action. You can curl it around a cyllinder, make it verticle, diagonal, whatever, but 3D platforming has always been 2D platforming where the camera is not always in the right place. Exploration is a naturally 3D action. Sadly, the 3D platformers of the recent past are all too materialistic. Shines, Stars, Jiggies, etc. are all an easy, but limited, way of tracking progress. I am frustrated with the Blue Coins in SMS, especially because they make up practically 20% of the shines in the game. For me, SMS is a fun and colorful diversion.
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#38
Well of course they're not nearly as revolutionary as their predecessors, but saying that they "fall short of the improvement curve of the rest of the industry" is ridiculous. The videogame industry is filled with crummy sequels and copy-cats, and even though the last two Mario and Zelda games weren't as innovative as their older siblings (which would pretty much be impossible since you can only go from 2D to 3D once), they still stood out above every other game that was out at the time.

But considering that Mario Sunshine came out a whopping seven years after Mario 64, it definitely should have been more innovative than it was. Nintendo had a long time to do something new and original with it, but instead they simply improved upon the last game. However, if the rumor that Sunshine was made in a relatively short amount of time and that the "true" sequel to Mario 64 has been in development for a while now (Mario 128), I'll forgive Nintendo.

Or whatever, as long as we get to see some real innovation net time. Miyamoto said that the next Mario and Zelda games would take the series in a whole new direction, so hopefully that will happen. I'm not complaining about WW though since we've gotten plenty of new, great Zelda games since OoT came out and it was made in just two years, but seeing a new kind of Zelda next time would be great.
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#39
Quote: Well of course they're not nearly as revolutionary as their predecessors, but saying that they "fall short of the improvement curve of the rest of the industry" is ridiculous.


That comment well might be true for Mario Sunshine, but not for Wind Waker. Mario Sunshine is a fun game, but I agree with Nintendarse -- its just so similar to Mario 64, with less variety! Sequels which are nearly identical to their predecessors often dissapoint me... not because they are bad games (for the games we're thinking of, they aren't), but because I want MORE.

Take Age of Empires 2. Its a quality sequel to the very good RTS Age of Empires. It puts it in a newer setting (medieval, not ancient), improves the graphics, adds some features, makes the campaigns more fun... but I was dissapointed by it and honestly probably should have spent my money elsewhere. Or SimCity 3000. Good game... but quite dissapointing considering what I was expecting it to be.

True, most sequels fall into that category... and in many other cases I actually don't want lots of change. It really depends on the game... but when the game could improve more, and should improve more, and the company has the time to improve it more, and it doesn't get improved more, its dissapointing.

So they are still great games... but they just don't match up to the originals.

Sure, it is true that you risk going too far and losing what the game or series its a sequel to is about, but if the alternative is a good but unimaginative sequel in most cases its best to take the risk.

And when we're talking about sequels to Mario 64, or OoT, or SimCity 2000... 'slightly improved with minor new features' just doesn't cut it. Not after so many years.

Wind Waker, I would say, did a much better job of innovating... the basic game is the same but it adds major new features to the game, unlike SMS. So that was better done. But SMS? Good game. Fun to play. Makes me remember Mario 64...

But it feels like PLAYING Mario 64, with a jetpack. And the graphics haven't improved nearly as much as they should either... and those aren't good things. So its nowhere near SM64. Just like SimCity 3000 isn't nearly as good as SC2k even though it adds a bunch of features and (when you have the expansion pack too) doesn't remove all that many.
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#40
The graphics haven't improved much?? You've got to be kidding me. Come on, ABF. Don't tell me your eyesite is that bad. The game doesn't look too good for a first-party Gamecube game (although neither did Luigi's Mansion), but all of the effects (particle effects, water, morphing, etc.) looked great and were difficult to pull off.

Mario Sunshine should have been more innovative since it was the first real Mario game in seven years, but perhaps that honor will be saved for Mario 128. As it is though, Mario Sunshine is Mario 64 with a waterpak, better graphics, better control, better camera, more moves, and a completely new set of enemies and locations. I would have loved to have seen more variety in the game, but I thought that the new enemies and locations (Mario games usually just have the same generic fire, ice, and sand levels) were a great change of pace for the series. But yes, there should have been more variety. I just care about gameplay more, and Sunshine definitely has Mario 64 beat in that category.

To each his own, I guess.
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#41
Well, if I could look at it objectively SMS would almost certainly win -- the better graphics and more features would ensure that. But nostalgia and remembering of how it was when you played it first is huge... and SM64 had a level of that that very few games have matched. SM64 redefined the genre, so hoping for the sequel to do it again is far too much. But its not unreasonable to ask for some significant improvements to the now somewhat stagnant 3d platformer genre... what do we do now that most everyone's tired of scavenger hunts?

And SM64 does have more environments to go to... 15 levels, every one very different. SMS has a nice theme, which I like, but its just not the same...
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#42
Quote:Originally posted by OB1
Mario Sunshine should have been more innovative since it was the first real Mario game in seven years, but perhaps that honor will be saved for Mario 128. As it is though, Mario Sunshine is Mario 64 with a waterpak, better graphics, better control, better camera, more moves, and a completely new set of enemies and locations. I would have loved to have seen more variety in the game, but I thought that the new enemies and locations (Mario games usually just have the same generic fire, ice, and sand levels) were a great change of pace for the series. But yes, there should have been more variety. I just care about gameplay more, and Sunshine definitely has Mario 64 beat in that category.

To each his own, I guess.


I disagree. For one, when you consider that some of Mario 64's moves were removed and replaced as opposed to being retained and added to, there really weren't that many new moves.

Secondly, I found the control to be exactly the same. No better, no worse.

Third, I can save a lot of time here if you read my review, and you'll know exactly what I thought about Mario Sunshine.

http://tcforums.com/forums/showthread.ph...readid=564

Wouldn't kill you guys to write one every now and then :cry:
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#43
But that'd take precious time that I ....

er, I'm lazy!

Control... a bit better, because it was analog as opposed to digital.

And it is true that moves were removed from SMS. But if you count the pack-assisted moves added in SMS, it still has more moves than SM64 did.

Ah, I see how EdenMaster does all those reviews... he just makes them short! :S
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#44
Well, you inspired me, and I wrote a Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance review between my last post and this one. I think its decent, at least, for something that I spent under an hour on and a game I've barely played since early May... :)
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#45
I too wrote a review, for the Virtual Boy section I added. However, I'm not sure what formatting you used, so the VB section acts just like a normal forum. Rather than fix it yourself, maybe you could tell me how you did it so I could learn and eat fish for a lifetime, or something. I will say this though. The idea of allowing others to respond to a review might just be a good one.

By the way, whatever happened to all the reviews we had back in tendocity.net? I'm too lazy and/or frustrated about the loss to write up my Secret of Mana review again, so I'd like to know if I could copy and paste the text from any backup you may have made of it.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
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#46
Quote:And SM64 does have more environments to go to... 15 levels, every one very different.

That's not true and you know it. There were around eight themes in Mario 64. The outside generic areas, the water areas, the haunted mansion areas, the lava areas, the underground areas, the snow areas, the sky areas, and the sand area. Am I forgetting something?

Quote:I disagree. For one, when you consider that some of Mario 64's moves were removed and replaced as opposed to being retained and added to, there really weren't that many new moves.

There were around two moves removed, and many more added. And the ones they removed weren't really needed because of the waterpack.

Quote:Secondly, I found the control to be exactly the same. No better, no worse.

The controls are definitely better than Mario 64's. That is something I am very sensitive to. They're very tight in Sunshine, moreso than in Mario 64. There's no question about that.

Quote:Control... a bit better, because it was analog as opposed to digital.

Wha? Both games used analogue controls...
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#47
Quote:Wha? Both games used analogue controls...


I was replying to Weltall. He was talking about the CAMERA controls... I thought it was pretty obvious... Erm

Quote:That's not true and you know it. There were around eight themes in Mario 64. The outside generic areas, the water areas, the haunted mansion areas, the lava areas, the underground areas, the snow areas, the sky areas, and the sand area. Am I forgetting something?


That "outside generic" is about 5 different types? Same with "water". And "sky". Tall Tall Mountain, Bob-Omb Battlefield, and Whomp's Fortress are very different styles... not "outdoors generic". :)

Same with the Jolly Roger Bay and that other one with the water level you can change (and the third water one? Not sure if there was one...). And how about Tick Tock Clock? That's unique. As for Sky, does that mean the Rainbow Road? Because there was a bonus level (switch room for the hat) that was quite different set in the sky too. :)

No, every level is very unique in theme and setting in SM64. Sure, some have similarities, but each has major unique themes too...

As opposed to SMS where over half the levels have the same exact theme and the other half have variations on it. Quite a big difference there. Sure, each has unique things of course, but they aren't about setting or theme in most cases. Just some of the stuff in the level, and that's a different category.
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#48
Quote:Originally posted by Dark Jaguar
I too wrote a review, for the Virtual Boy section I added. However, I'm not sure what formatting you used, so the VB section acts just like a normal forum. Rather than fix it yourself, maybe you could tell me how you did it so I could learn and eat fish for a lifetime, or something. I will say this though. The idea of allowing others to respond to a review might just be a good one.

By the way, whatever happened to all the reviews we had back in tendocity.net? I'm too lazy and/or frustrated about the loss to write up my Secret of Mana review again, so I'd like to know if I could copy and paste the text from any backup you may have made of it.


To format it to fit the others, when you go to the Modify Forums section in the control panel, change the Style Set to "Website" and check the "Override User StyleSet".

Secondly, on the topic of old reviews, I still have all of them saved, the reason I did not re-post them myself is that, since the reviews section is a part of the forum's database now, the original writer has to re-post them, otherwise they'd show up under my name.

Your SOM review is here: http://tcforums.com/reviews/snes/som.shtml

I'll go around later, and find the rest of the stranded reviews, and let the writers know to re-post them. It's something I had meant to do when I first started the reviews section and forgot completely about :S

If you want to browse the old reviews at all, go to:
http://tcforums.com/reviews/ , hover your mouse over the links (as they're all dead) and replace tendocity.net with tcforums.com.
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#49
Quote:Originally posted by OB1
[B]That's not true and you know it. There were around eight themes in Mario 64. The outside generic areas, the water areas, the haunted mansion areas, the lava areas, the underground areas, the snow areas, the sky areas, and the sand area. Am I forgetting something?

The only themes that really repeated were water and snow.

Quote:There were around two moves removed, and many more added. And the ones they removed weren't really needed because of the waterpack.

You lost the punch, the crouch-jump and the dash-jump, you gained the Hover, the Dash, and the Turbo.

Quote:The controls are definitely better than Mario 64's. That is something I am very sensitive to. They're very tight in Sunshine, moreso than in Mario 64. There's no question about that.

I dunno, I'm usually very sensitive to control too, but there wasn't a notable difference in my opinion.
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#50
Quote:I was replying to Weltall. He was talking about the CAMERA controls... I thought it was pretty obvious...

Oh right, yeah.

Quote:That "outside generic" is about 5 different types? Same with "water". And "sky". Tall Tall Mountain, Bob-Omb Battlefield, and Whomp's Fortress are very different styles... not "outdoors generic".

Same with the Jolly Roger Bay and that other one with the water level you can change (and the third water one? Not sure if there was one...). And how about Tick Tock Clock? That's unique. As for Sky, does that mean the Rainbow Road? Because there was a bonus level (switch room for the hat) that was quite different set in the sky too.

No, every level is very unique in theme and setting in SM64. Sure, some have similarities, but each has major unique themes too...

As opposed to SMS where over half the levels have the same exact theme and the other half have variations on it. Quite a big difference there. Sure, each has unique things of course, but they aren't about setting or theme in most cases. Just some of the stuff in the level, and that's a different category.

Quote:The only themes that really repeated were water and snow.

Oh that is such bullshit. If you're going to count each and every one of those outdoor areas as completely unique then you have to do the exact same with Mario Sunshine's levels. The themes that get repeated are the generic outdoor areas, the snow areas, the water areas, and uh... I think there's one more. The first two levels are identical in theme, and there are a few more that belong to that generic outdoor area theme as well. I'll get screenshots when I have time.

Quote:You lost the punch, the crouch-jump and the dash-jump, you gained the Hover, the Dash, and the Turbo.

Wow what a precise, error-free list. I certainly hope you don't use "facts" like these in your other arguments. Here's a full (I think) list of all the new moves you get in Mario Sunshine:

-Spinning jump
-Tightrope/Springboard jump
-Rocket jump
-Hover jump
-Speed jump
-Wall Ride
-Spray
-Spin Spray
-Wet Slide

And then of course the Yoshi stuff.

Quote:I dunno, I'm usually very sensitive to control too, but there wasn't a notable difference in my opinion.

Well you're definitely not as sensitive to control as I am if you can't tell the difference.
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