10th November 2016, 6:10 PM
Weltall Wrote:Yeah, so we instead nominate the candidate who comes already equipped with tons of baggage and look what happened. Nothing but non-stop scandal and mudslinging and being prepared and used to it did not help her win. Of fucking course they would try to smear Bernie. It would not have worked anywhere near to the extent it worked on Clinton because Clinton was a historically unpopular candidate while Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician in the United States.Yeah, because he wasn't attacked. It is impossible to compare Bernie's numbers to Hillary's or Trump's since there has never been a concerted attack campaign made against him; Hillary's primary campaign focused on issues, and that's different from the kind of campaign this general election was going to be about regardless of the candidate the Dems nominated.
Quote:It astounds me that you believe what you're saying, when our next president was accused repeatedly of sexual assault and child rape and is still going to be our next president.Sadly, too many people voted on party loyalty and (wrong-headed beliefs in Republican lies about) economics first and not decency or facts. That changes nothing about the fact that Bernie's name would have been dragged through the mud and he would not be anywhere near as popular today as he now is. But besides that, you think states like Ohio or North Carolina were going to vote for a literal socialist? Good luck!
Quote:Hillary dumped ass in the rust belt, but she also failed miserably with minority turnout. Trump did better with Latinos than Romney for fucks' sa[I]ke, while threatening to deport 11 million Latinos. She failed miserably with overall turnout as well, five million fewer votes than Obama in 2012 and ten million fewer than in 2008. Bernie could have easily pulled down numbers like that.On that last point, no way. Throughout the primaries we saw how awful his support among minorities was, overall. What makes you think that would have changed dramatically had he been nominated?
Quote:Maybe the GOP thought Bernie would be an easier win. Just like Dems felt certain Trump would be an easy win. Bernie has the same populist economic appeal as Trump while also being a much better human being.These things are both true, but someone as far left as Bernie would inevitably struggle to win given how suspicious Americans are of anything vaguely socialist, of course.
Quote:There's no doubt in my mind he would be president-elect today.Given the generally not great economic situation and the right-wing trend many nations around the world have been seeing in recent years, any Democrat was going to have a hard time winning this year. We absolutely should have won this, and I did think that beating Trump would be easier than their other candidates, but once Republicans decided to support Trump it was going to be a tough race because, for whatever stupid reason, the American people continue to be easily fooled by Republicans' terrible economic policy positions, and economics are always the primary concern in any election.
Quote:When you gain 100 fewer electoral votes than every single polling aggregate model predicts, you got annihilated. But goody, Hillary won a moral victory by winning the popular vote by a fraction of a percent against a literal cartoon character.No, you were very narrowly defeated. Hillary won the popular vote, and lost Pennsylvania, Michigan (if that loss is certified, it's still officially uncalled), and Wisconsin combined by fewer votes than Kerry lost Ohio by in '04. You're conflating a big polling miss with a big loss in the actual election, and I do think the two things are different.
Quote:Democrats also lost the Supreme Court for yet another generation. So we face losing every single progressive gain made via legislation and judicial fiat over the last eight years. Obamacare is doomed. Roe v. Wade and Obergefell v. Hodges are likely doomed. Citizens United is safe. I hope those two or three gained Senate seats make you feel better when Donald nominates Ted Cruz to SCOTUS and he is appointed without serious opposition.Oh come on, I know that the Democrats like to roll over and give up way too often, but you're giving even this party too little credit here! 48 senators can accomplish quite a bit, as we saw with the Republicans' effective opposition to Obama when they were in the minority in the Senate, and I hope and expect that our senators will fight back against all of the issues you list here. They will win some of those fights for sure, and that's awful, but not ALL of those things are doomed. (Oh, and Obergefell v. Hodges is not changing. Trump doesn't care about hating the gays like many in his party do, and LGBT hate does not play as well as it once did -- see Roy Cooper losing, apparently, despite Trump winning NC easily, for example. That would never have happened in a year like '04 ,when so many gay marriage ban amendments passed nationwide!)
Quote:You think nothing's wrong even when us Bernie people were telling you this was going to happen.If Bernie had been the nominee we'd be baving this same conversation, just the other way around.