28th April 2010, 5:43 PM
(This post was last modified: 28th April 2010, 6:00 PM by A Black Falcon.)
Weltall Wrote:Sure you do. It ignores the pressing reality of the situation, but gosh darnit, it sounds so much nicer!
I think the idea is that people who call it that don't think that illegal immigration is anywhere near as big a threat as you do.
I'm not sure what I think myself, the issue has little direct impact on me (remember that Maine is the whitest state in the nation, and neighboring New Hampshire and Vermont are second and third), so it's not something I've thought a huge amount about. There are good arguments on both sides... but I do strongly think the things I said above about exploitation, and that illegal workers get exploited terribly and how wrong that is. So more workplace enforcement probably would be a good thing, though whether it would be good for the economy or not is debatable.
Of course also deporting illegals with criminal records makes quite a lot of sense, no question there.
On the whole it's a really complex problem though, with lots of factors, most of which I don't understand well enough to state much of anything authoritative on... like, on how many illegals do pay in to social security (via their stolen or faked SSI numbers), but don't draw anything out, so on that the government benefits but they lose, while on the other hand I'm sure they make use of emergency room service as their only health care, on which hospitals, and the state, lose, and they do too because they're not getting any other care. But they're illegal, so what else could you do about that? Not much it seems...
Walls, crazy racist laws that infringe on the Constitution like this Arizona law, etc. though are not going to work, and antagonize people as well. Sure, we need some immigration reform, but certainly not the repressive kind that anti-immigrant people want. Hispanics do not threaten the existence of America or something...
Which reminds me of a good cartoon I've seen before, which says that pro-immigration Americans think that America has been made great by immigration, while anti-immigration ones think that it was made great by Northern European immigration from up until the early 20th century. That is, draw a line, anyone after this date isn't a "real" American... but America is a country that does allow assimilation into our culture, so that attitude just doesn't make sense. Of course I can understand why there is a big clash of cultures going on right now, but if you look back into history, you see these things regularly when there is a wave of immigrants coming -- think, for instance, of the experience of the Irish in America in the late 1800s. Ever heard of "No Irish Need Apply"? Racism against immigrants has a long history in America... but so far, each group has eventually ended up gaining acceptance, and changing itself in some ways to fit in. There is no evidence that that is any less true with the current Hispanic wave of migration than any other.
The exception, of course, is people who aren't planning on staying, but are only working here for a few years to make a lot more money than they would at home. The hopeful long-term solution there would be to make the situation at home better, or have some kind of program that could work for people like that so that they don't end up treated so terribly here. Setting up something like taht would be hard though, you'd need the companies to prove that Americans really wouldn't want the job... and they'd need to pay people better, which would break down part of the whole point of why they do it (to artificially hold down costs below where they really should be in order to make things cheaper for the American public, who want everything as cheap as possible). I mean, I do agree in principle that American citizens should have the preferred position, and it does look bad when companies want to bring in lots of lower-cost foreign workers instead of looking for more higher-cost Americans. Their excuse is that there aren't enough Americans who have the right skills or would do the job. The question is, is that true or not? Honestly I have no idea, it could be either way I think.
... Eh, I don't know, very complex stuff that I do not fully understand. I'll stop here.
alien space marine Wrote:Darunia doesn't know me at all and assumes that I am like this.
http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs30/f/2008/1...14_bis.jpg
I dont really think we as "Canadians" can rightfully comment on the situation the U.S faces, The only way people come here illegally is by boat hiding inside a cargo crate, (although quite a few thousand Chinese have managed to do it every few years), We get so few "undocumented" Hispanics up here that they are still considered exotic.
On that note, around here (remember that Maine is on the Canadian border, not the Mexican one; Maine borders two Canadian provinces and a third is nearby across the Gulf of Maine, but only borders one US state; on the other hand though, the majority of Maine's population (including me) lives in the southeast corner, not up north near Canada... but still.), the main immigration-related issue these last few years is how stupid it is that you now need a passport to go to Canada... you didn't used to, but the US government has strengthened the rules now, so now you need one. It's so pointless, Canadians are not a threat.