XBox = N64

[lazyfatbum]

Well, the XBox is getting ready to phase out and bring in a new gen system, and of course Rare is there to keep the owners happy until they get the new hardware.

Conker's BFD is about a month or two away from release and it is without a doubt a beautiful remake of the N64 version with a much more detailed multiplayer setup, which is now online as well through the Live service.

The single player game is word for word, shot for shot from the N64 version, and for the first time I am intrigued about the XBox. Taking in to account that Perfect Dark Zero will never see the light of day on XBox; Conker's BFD is probably the only game worth buying on the console. Unless Rare releases a similar remake of Banjo~Kazooie... which I seriously doubt.

I know I love BFD, but the questions is: Do I buy a 'last gen' system for one awesome game? the XBox2 will be backwards compatible, so it would make more sense to buy a 'current gen' console. But what if the XBox2 delivers the same games as the XBox did? To me, the track record is obvious - Hundreds of games that are definitely not worth buying and even questionable as a rental... but the promise of the XBox2 or X-360, whatever you want to call it, is of course Perfect Dark Zero.

Those of you who know me, know how much I love PD. I'm a Perfect 1 and I can still take down a group of Darksims without dying :D

If PDZ is as good as PD... I might have to get an XBox2.

But then again, it could be one game out of hundreds that I would buy.

So what's your opinion? Should you shell out $350+ to get a next gen system for one good game? Be it Conker's BFD or PDZ, which I can only hope will be as good as the original...

[A Black Falcon]

It's not definite that the XBox2 will be backwards compatible, right? I haven't heard a definitive answer on that front... just that it'd be hard for MS to do.

[OB1]

I doubt it'll be backwards compatible.

And no, I wouldn't buy a system for just one game. The XB has plenty of good games worth buying, but since you've apparently played all of them thoroughly and decided that they suck...

[A Black Falcon]

True X-Box exclusives? That aren't also on PS2, GC, or PC? Sure, there are some, but probably not as many exclusives as GC or PS2 have...

[OB1]

Not tons, but there are plenty. And of course, the best 3rd party ports.

[Dark Jaguar]

Hmm, if the XBox ends up being sold in used game stores for $20, then sure, buy a last gen system for one game.

Otherwise, I'd say don't make a decision yet. There's just too much we don't know about the next gen Umaro. I will say exactly what I want from the system. One, don't scrap one of the few reasons to even design a game for that system instead of another, the Hard Drive. The XBox will DIE without some sort of real feature like that (unless it can manage to live on name alone thus attracting developers). I know, they will sell it seperatly, but c'mon, that's pretty much the same thing as far as sales will reflect. They need to bundle a hard drive with all XBox systems.

Anyway, Perfect Dark Zero, that's the game I've been waiting for for years. I've played some FPS games since then, some "decent", some pretty good, but I've yet to play one that compaires with PD. There's the fact that I prefer objective based gameplay to "kill em all and get to the next flag" gameplay of course, but there's also the multiplayer. What I'm hoping is that all the levels from PD will be included (or at least added later on), as well as all the weapons, plus a bunch of improvements. They had pretty much all the basic gametypes you could want already. Some more customizing would be nice, as well as perhaps even combining game types, like for example setting up a "pop a cap" mode so that instead of them being the only one you can kill for a point, they are the only one that can pick up the briefcase. Also, customizing weapons. Nothing major. At the very least, I want to be able to disable and enable the secondary modes of my weaponry. Finally, level editor! If a level is missing, I'll put it in myself. Oh yes, with the ability to store images on the next system, customizable skins, and mebbe more?

I don't know, basically the name of the multiplayer game to me is "customization". Controls, well now that'll be fun won't it? :D Hmm, I wonder if they'll add a jump ability? Hehprobably not....

Level design... Oh yes, some of the built in levels, I want some open spaces with lots of raised and lowered bits as well as high standing areas all around the level. Why? That's the basic concept behind a good sniping level. All good sniping levels do that. Tunnels and boxes are great for close combat, REALLY great, and Rare knew exactly what they were doing there, but if you want to be a sniper, good luck! There were ways yes, but no levels really were designed with sniping in mind. Keep in mind that part of a good sniping level is high places uniformly. It's not a good idea to set up the only possible sniping locations as big beacons that say "I'm here!". The tough thing is balancing the need to make a sniper hidden, and the need to enable the guy being sniped to figure out where it's coming from. Coagulation, a Halo 2 level of all things (they didn't get much right compaired to PD2, oh no, not near it, but when it came to multiplayer level design, they were masters of the open environment) is a perfect example of good sniping. Basically what I'm saying is they should have level designs that are good for close, mid, and long range combat. Hard to mix it all, but ones that specify in one of them would be great.

Let's see, reasons to get an XBox...

*looks at library* As I've said before, the majority of XBox "exclusives" won't be like that but for a few months. As for the actual exclusives? Well, Panzar Dragoon Orta is an awesome game if you like multiform 3D shooter thing on a dragon that will HAND YOU YOUR ARSE. Halo 2... I do play that pretty often in multiplayer, but is it worth getting the system for? No... Still, if you can find it cheap, and you go and get a Live account, it's worth it. Multiplayer is pretty fun, thanks to good multiplayer level design (too bad their whole level design philosophy for the single player doesn't stack up, they actually put the whole "things repeat too much" thing in a good light :D, they say "basically a good game has moments that are about 30 seconds of pure fun, so what we do is basically give you that 30 seconds over and over again"). I have heard great things about Crimson Skies, but I just don't have it yet. As for "the rest" of this stack? Sadly enough, they don't sell the system because, even though they are GOOD games, really good, they aren't exclusives. I got them because I had an XBox and they are the best versions of the games, but I didn't get the XBox because I would get these games... It's sad really, there really are only a small handful of good exclusive games for the XBox. Had I known there would be this few, it's very possible I would never have bought the system. As it is now, I have it already, so I take advantage of the multiple system owning situation I'm in to always buy the best version of whatever game comes out. If it's for all 3, NORMALLY, the best one is the XBox version. Sometimes, it's not, because Link is in the GCN version or something :D.

Hope I didn't help!

[A Black Falcon]

I want Panzer Dragoon Orta. :(

[OB1]

Crimson Skies is great. So are the Rallisport Challenge games.

[A Black Falcon]

I've played Crimson Skies (multiplayer, the xbox game) and Rallisport Challenge (the demo, for pc), they're both pretty good games... I don't think Crimson Skies is as good as the older PC game, which was slightly more simmish (really, more like TIE Fighter, not a "real" flight sim), but it's a pretty good game anyway.

[lazyfatbum]

So DJ, you're basically in the same boat then. It's as if you have an XBox for Orta. But then you say you wouldn't have purchased the system had you known this previously... It does make sense, but God I love PD. :D I'd do anything for a new PD! ANYTHING! *shows you his nipples*

See in order for me to get an XBox2 with PD, i would have to sell my GC and my 30 something games... and I play almost all of them constantly. Right now there's just no budget to get a new system, I couldn't afford Revolution either unless I sell my GC. If PDZ is as good or better than PD... it would be worth it. But I've been collecting systems for so long....

NES
SNES
N64
GC
GB (+P)
GBC
GBA (+ SP)
DS
VB
SMS
Genny (Old style and new style)
Saturn
Dc
Gg
Nomad

And about 15 to 30+ games for each one except my VB, which I have 3 games. i couldn't bare to sell my Cube... but man imagine if PDZ is perfect... *drools*

[Great Rumbler]

You're in luck, the Revolution is supposed to be backwards compatible with the GC.

[A Black Falcon]

But X-Box 2 won't be backwards compatible with GC... and it'd definitely be too bad to sell your GC stuff. You'd just regret it a lot in the future.

[lazyfatbum]

I think so too.

And yeah the Rev is supposed to be backwards, and I heard the XBox2 is backwards if you buy the HDD add-on.

[A Black Falcon]

Given how Nintendo and Sony have virtually confirmed backwards compatibility, MS must know that it's almost got to have it...

[The Former DMiller]

Microsoft has to make the Xbox backwards compatible to even have a chance to compete with Sony. I'm assuming backwards compatibility would also mean having a HDD since I don't think backwards compatibility would be possible without one.

[Smoke]

If there's backwards compatability it'll come with the HDD. But it's not clear yet whether it will have it or if that's just a rumor.

[A Black Falcon]

All the rumors say that it's hard for MS to do because of the dramatically different hardware... but I'm sure they're trying hard after what Nintendo and Sony have said.

[lazyfatbum]

Doesn't the PS2 simply emulate the PS1 hardware? Just like running an emulator on the PC, yunno?

But basically, what i'm hearing is that there will be two versions of the XBox2 at launch for the purpose of cutting cost. One with the HDD, and (for $50-100 less) one without it. You can buy the HDD seperately though. Giving you a choice, do you want the backwards compatability or do you want the core system?

But would that mean if you buy the XBox2 without the HDD, you cant save your games? Or maybe it's just a larger HDD that you can buy seperately. Maybe there's a small HDD built in that supports the XBox2 games to save states and what not, but you'd need the 'expansion' to play XBox1 games... I dunno.

One thing is for sure, it would be just plain stupid to release a next gen console only a few years after the last gen and not have it backwards compatible. I dont care if the new gen hardware was made in a joint venture between ILM, Martians and God; You cant screw your consumers and your established user base like that.

[Private Hudson]

No, the PS2 has the processessor from the PSX in it.

If it was done like on the PC there would be far more enhancements to the graphics.

This is the first I've ever heard of the HDD version of the XBox being backwards compatible.

[Dark Jaguar]

Yeah, the PS2 uses the same input/output as the PS1, and has enough in common that very little emulating need be done. In fact, from what I read a long time ago just before the PS2 came out, they would not have bothered even adding backwards compatibility except that it was a fairly easy process to do so. Now, even if it's tough, companies don't have much of a choice.

[A Black Falcon]

For saving, X-Box 2 will have memory cards... XBox1 has them too (there aren't two ports on top of the controllers for nothing... well, one's for the microphone, but the other's for the memcard.), but most games just save to the harddrive.

As for emulation, yes, the best way is to have the physical hardware from the previous system inside. The PS2 did that. The GBA does as well (with the GBC CPU in it). The DS too, with the second CPU being the GBA one. The X-Box 2's problem is that it does NOT have an X-Box CPU or videocard in it. Not only that, but both the CPU and videocard are coming from different manufacturers (IBM and ATI, not Intel and NVidia...). That makes it hard to emulate the past system.

Software emulation is what emulation on the PC is. It's harder to do and, more importantly, much more processor intensive... it's not clear if the X-Box 2 would be able to emulate X-Box 1 at full speed...

[Dark Jaguar]

Well from what I've seen, emulating on a PC requires a LOT of specific coding for specific games. When using enough of the original hardware, a lot of the functions the games will use, despite some differences, will behave as intended. If emulating the functions the games are attempting, basically translating them into similar things for the new hardware, you can basically get all the games that do methods the same working fine, but the games that do different things, you have to code for all of them seperatly... That's actually even bigger an issue than processor hogging. I've played around with a few emulators, and it's some messy stuff.

[A Black Falcon]

Yeah, emulators are hard to get right... trying to get games working (and looking, and running) in emulation exactly as they do on the actual systems is obviously very hard given how most emulators are. Some are quite good, some not as good... but it's clearly a lot of work and yes, they definitely have to do game-specific stuff for some games to get them to work correctly.

But just as important is the fact that it requires a lot of processor power. I mean, N64 is a pretty slow system but you need a reasonably powerful machine to run those games in emulation well... many times more powerful than a real N64. It's the same on consoles, and that's a big problem for recent system emulation. Such as X-Box on X-Box 2.

[Private Hudson]

Yeah, the PS2 uses the same input/output as the PS1, and has enough in common that very little emulating need be done. In fact, from what I read a long time ago just before the PS2 came out, they would not have bothered even adding backwards compatibility except that it was a fairly easy process to do so. Now, even if it's tough, companies don't have much of a choice.

Actually, it's not even that. The PS2 needed an I/O processor. The PSX by this stage was very cheap and easy to manufacture, so why bother making a new one?

Backwards compatability was an after thought.