Dumpster vol. 2

[A Black Falcon]

They are all 128* bit.

*: at least one component somewhere is 128 bit, giving them cause to call it "128 bit". Like the X-Box certainly has a 128-bit video card...

And as for the IQue, why not? What's so bad about it?

[OB1]

1- We're talking about the CPUs.

2- The IQue was made specifically for the Chinese market because of the insane piracy over there. They didn't get official SNESs and N64s over there. Releasing the IQue in the states would be the dumbest thing Nintendo could ever do. It's a Dreamcast controller that plays downloadable SNES and N64 games! Woo!

[A Black Falcon]

1 - So? You can't call your console a 32-bit console so you've got to come up with some way of justifying calling it "128-bit"...

2 - Yeah, it just plays SNES and N64 games, but still... it's still cool... and they'd obviously add something to it if they released it here, which is whatever that wireless communication would be for.

[OB1]

@-

&^- It's a crappy DC controller that plays old games!

[A Black Falcon]

Your hatred for the IQue won't work on me!

[OB1]

Name one good thing about the IQue.

[A Black Falcon]

It is cheap, plays both N64 and SNES games, and has cheap games which run on cards so you don't need to switch carts...

[OB1]

And the games it plays are old (still good games, but nothing that can compete in the market), the controller itself looks like a third-party DC controller, and you can't even use your own N64 and SNES games so you'd have to buy them all over again. The price, quality, and downloadable card system was made specifically for the Chinese market and Nintendo releasing it in the states would be like Sega releasing the Neptune right now.

[A Black Falcon]

Cynic.

[OB1]

Cynic? Hoo boy. You're livin' in a dream world if you think the IQue could stand a chance here.

[A Black Falcon]

Sure it'd do better if it was more powerful, but it's unique enough that I think it'd do okay...

[OB1]

How on earth could you ever possibly think that a DC controller that plays SNES and N64 games could sell even remotely well in the U.S.? I hope NOA's execs don't think like you do...

[OB1]

Fixed it.

[A Black Falcon]

Because of how it is unique -- how you don't buy games, you upload them to those cards. That's different.

[OB1]

... sooo... because instead of buying carts you use cards instead... that's what would make it succeed...

[A Black Falcon]

Games would be far cheaper and you could have a large selection of them at the stations that sell games...

[OB1]

They're cheap in China because otherwise the damn thing wouldn't sell. It wouldn't be the same case here. Just look at how much Nintendo charges for those measly e-cards.

[Dark Jaguar]

Not that much really, about a dollar a card. Considering there's DATA on them, it's not too surprising. Consider how much Yugioh cards sell for.

[A Black Falcon]

Yeah, I doubt it'd be much more here. No reason it would be...

[Dark Jaguar]

Let it be known my post was only talking about the price of cards being perfectly fair. I wasn't trying to say anything about the success or failure of an iQue released here.

I seriously doubt this would be for old NES and SNES games. Something like that might actually get a niche audience in Japan (don't forget, only recently did Nintendo stop making Famicom stuff :D, they had for the longest time still been selling Famicom Disk System games as well), but here, NOA stopped making those two system's games a long time ago. I figure it's something far weirder.

[A Black Falcon]

NES? But they released some of them as e-Reader cards...

But I'd say that N64, and some SNES, is the most likely if this actually is a variation on the iQue. And given the uniqueness of the media format I definitely think it could succeed... especially if they released some new games for it too, of course. And given that it's not supposed to replace either the GBA or the Cube...

[OB1]

Considering what you need to play them and how you play them, the E-cards are definitely a rip-off. If the E-Reader was a small attachment with some memory for saving games then it would be a really awesome device, but as it is it's just wasted potential. And it's too damn big! Certainly not suitable for a handheld system.

Unless they give it away for practically nothing, the IQue will be a complete disaster in the U.S. The whole thing looks like a cheap Chinese console knock-off (how fitting considering the market it was made for) and you can't even play multiplayer games with it (I think). If it is the IQue and that's Nintendo's big plan for combating the PSP (they said the new device would do just that), then Nintendo has really lost their marbles.

[A Black Falcon]

You are right, it won't exactly be the iQue. For one, it has this mysterious 'wireless data communication' aspect that we don't know much about... but I can't think of how that would actually be revolutionary. I mean... cell phones do the 'downloading games' thing, things like N-Gage have wireless cell communication multiplayer online or within a certain range with just wireless multiplayer without cables... and if it's like the iQue it isn't a portable, its a TV-based console, so I'm confused about this. Especially considering Nintendo's anti-online stance...

Oh yeah, and Nintendo always hypes this stuff (with words) more than it makes sense... as that Mario Sunshine thing proves.

So what I expect is something closer in power to the iQue, but looking different and with some not-so-revolutionary "revolutionary" "new" feature, as Nintendo seems to do all the time these days.

But it'll still be kind of cool... hate it all you want for just doing old games, but the GBA only has "old-style" games too! Is the problem that the iQue is a TV-based console?

[OB1]

Well yeah! I already have home consoles that can play N64 and SNES games! I like to call them "Nintendo 64" and "Super Nintendo". It's pretty amazing. :p

[A Black Falcon]

And yes, the GBA is pretty much a portable SNES, and can be played on a TV with a GB Player (though because of screen size they aren't as good as real SNES games, and I bet most people do not have SNESes), and N64 games are still readily available used and pretty cheap... but still... it's cool! :)

Look, that distribution method truly is different...

[OB1]

Different but not better by any means. There's a reason why even though Nintendo has been distributing games like this for over a decade, they have yet to pull it off over here.

And the GBA has a lot of original content. The IQue does not. BIG difference.

[A Black Falcon]

Well I don't think China officially got the N64 or SNES, so for them it well may be new... :)

And as I said, if they release it here I'm sure we'll get something new too.

And you are right, they haven't released that model here before despite using it several times in Japan... I can see why, because people like to own hard copies of things. So it'll be interesting to see where this goes...

[OB1]

Well I don't think China officially got the N64 or SNES, so for them it well may be new...

YES, dummy, and that's why it's being releases in China and not here!

And as I said, if they release it here I'm sure we'll get something new too.

Have you gone mad? You actually think they'll start making new SNES and N64 games if it comes out over here??
Oh ABF... how low can you go...

And you are right, they haven't released that model here before despite using it several times in Japan... I can see why, because people like to own hard copies of things. So it'll be interesting to see where this goes...

Nowhere, hopefully.

[A Black Falcon]

Have you gone mad? You actually think they'll start making new SNES and N64 games if it comes out over here??
Oh ABF... how low can you go...

What? Is it so odd to expect that when you make a new console you wouldn't just release only ports for it? If that were the case the GBA would be 100% SNES ports! You need to rethink your arguements!

[OB1]

....



*shakes head in disgust*


ABF. You sir, are completely insane. How to break this down for you....



Okay, here we go!


GBA: Not a SNES. Much more powerful, but not so much that SNES ports look bad on it. Key word being PORTS. Why can Nintendo get away with selling SNES ports for so much? Because you can play them wherever you want to! Weeee!

IQue: A system that plays N64 and SNES games, designed specifically for the Chinese market because of piracy, and because they never released the SNES or N64 there. It is NOT portable. It offers NOTHING over an N64 and SNES. In fact, it's much worse than those systems because it can't even play the original carts and the controller looks like ass. I don't even think you can play multiplayer games with it. If the IQue were a portable N64-equivalent then of course you would see N64 ports and original games that look like N64 titles. But it's NOT, it's China's version of our N64 and SNES! It just plays ROMs on a flashcard! That's it!

If Nintendo released the IQue here and started to make new games for it, then they might as well bring back the NES and put their developers to work on new NES software. And while we're at it, let's get Atari to re-release the 2600 and start releasing new games for it.

Seriously man... I'm disappointed in you. This is the dumbest thing you've ever said. If only you could see the disappointed look on my face right now.

[A Black Falcon]

First, I think the iQue looks fine.

Second, I'm pretty sure you can connect multiple iQues together for multiplayer.

Third, as I've said ten times, we would not get a straight iQue! The fact that they are talking about some wireless thing proves that!

[OB1]

Even if it does have some sort of stupid wireless multiplayer support, it still wouldn't be portable! It would just be a N64/SNES combo machine that works just like the systems Nintendo released a long time ago! How can you not understand how incredibly stupid it would be for Nintendo to release it here?? There's a reason why we see new hardware every four or so years from gaming companies and why they aren't making NES games anymore! And remember that the IQue is supposed to combat the PSP in some way.

*sigh*

The stupidity of your argument is hurting my head right now... I don't think it can handle such bizarro logic...

[A Black Falcon]

Your hostility towards this system is amazing and puzzling... can you not understand that a lot of people don't have a lot of those games, and won't go buy old consoles when they can get new ones? Sure, this wouldn't have many new games probably, but putting it in a "new package" definitely would open it to a new market... and would make getting games for it very easy if they can get the machines selling games into a lot of stores. Dirt cheap prices for games would help too...

No, I can't see how it would be so stupid for them to release it here. I think there is a fair market for such games, especially at such prices. I also think that if they launch it as a new console while a lot of games would obviously be old ports there would inevitably be some new games also... I very much doubt Nintendo would have a new platform that they intend to complement the GBA and NGC and not make any new games for it! That would be amazingly stupid and wouldn't be something they would do. Not if they want it to succeed. Though as I said, the novelty (for this market anyway) would sell some, as would the game prices...

And who knows, they may launch it with screen and battery add-ons or something.

[Dark Jaguar]

Nintendo didn't do this iQue thing before though, not in Japan either, well not exactly this. Well, they had Famicom Disk System disks, but those were just rewritable disks and they were permanent. Just as many of those games were sold pre-copied onto the disk (same as just buying a game) as were bought in a store by just rewriting the diskette. I REALLY would have loved to be in Japan at the time. Going down to the local convenience store to get the new games they just put in the machine all for about 500 yen, can anyone NOT see the sheer naustalgia factor that could enduce years later?

I'd actually LIKE to see that sort of thing done. The idea of a rewritable media so one can easily just get software dumped into it whenever they want would be great, especially for that one hard to find game that's sold out everywhere, what with information not being in limited quanteties and all :D. Buy a hard copy, or buy a blank disk and write your game to it, or decide you hated that game you bought and write a new one in place of it. Seems good to me.

[A Black Falcon]

True, I guess they could sell games in boxes with a game on a card inside... though it'd kind of defeat the purpose of the games being cheap and the idea that you'd put multiple games on the card when you got it... though I guess if it came on a normal 64mb card you could go and put more games on the thing. But still, it seems like it'd make more sense to just sell the cards and have stations which sell all the games.

And I'd like to see that here too. And newer games don't make sense -- they are gigabytes, and you couldn't do that in an affordable removable media drive! It needs to be older games! The media format sets what kinds of games it can play...

[OB1]

People, games don't cost $50 because DVDs are expensive to make. DVDs are extremely cheap, even moreso than flash memory cards. They cost so much to make up for production costs, etc. Yeesh, I thought you knew that.

And ABF, I still don't understand how you think that releasing a system that plays really old Nintendo games could be anything more than a simple novelty item. This is Nintendo's "third pillar" and their temporary answer to the PSP. If this really is the IQue then Nintendo is as crazy as you are.

[A Black Falcon]

N64 and SNES games don't require much development and have no shipping or distribution charges with this method of selling games... and I just think that more people would be intrested in a console like this than you think, especially if the game price is low enough. As I said, it's not like everyone has these games! And there will be some new games I'm sure... and I bet they could charge more for them in the machines that sell games if they wanted to. :)

[OB1]

As a niche product among die-hard gamers it could be successful, but as a mainstream product that they hope to make lots of money off of and use to combat the PSP?? Not in a million years. Hitler will rise from the dead and become the president of Canada before that happens. And N64 games aren't more easy to develop than GC games. Making models and everything, sure, if they use the modeling and animating tools that they use today. But programming? Not really. The N64 was a bitch to program for, with only the Saturn being more of a pain for developers. Nintendo made sure that the GC would be a much simpler machine to develop for, and several third-parties have testified to that fact. 2D SNES games would be easier to develop for, but why on earth would you want Nintendo to start making new SNES games when they could be making new games for a far superior 2D system, the GBA? You don't make an ounce of sense, ABF. There's a reason why this is a China-only machine! I'm scratching my head trying to figure out the lunacy going on in your mind.

[A Black Falcon]

Er... someone said this was competition for the PSP? That certainly isn't something I've heard or would say... Nintendo is saying that this will stand with the GBA and NGC. Direct competion with the PSP? Only if it's a portable, which it well may not be.

N64? You're right, it is hard to develop for. I do think the iQue will be mostly ports. But all ports? Probably not. Oh yeah, and who knows, it could have something new in it too... doubtful, but possible especially if they're redoing the system for Western markets...

And as For SNES... full-screen is better than a small window. :)

[OB1]

Er... someone said this was competition for the PSP? That certainly isn't something I've heard or would say... Nintendo is saying that this will stand with the GBA and NGC. Direct competion with the PSP? Only if it's a portable, which it well may not be.

Don't you remember? Here. The first mention of Nintendo's mystery machine.


"We are preparing a new product which will be surprising and unique," company president Satoru Iwata said of Nintendo's future strategies.
...

"Basically Sony's multi-function handheld device will not have a big impact on our business, but we are, whether Sony releases a new product or not, preparing for our future...and we'll be able to tell you specifics next spring," he said.


Obviously it's mean to ward off the PSP at least until they get their real GBA successor ready.

N64? You're right, it is hard to develop for. I do think the iQue will be mostly ports. But all ports? Probably not. Oh yeah, and who knows, it could have something new in it too... doubtful, but possible especially if they're redoing the system for Western markets...

It's just a N64 that's backwards compatible with SNES games. It's the same system!

And as For SNES... full-screen is better than a small window.

Yeah I know, if only there was a way to play GBA games on a TV....

[A Black Falcon]

I'd say it looks like Super Metroid...

[A Black Falcon]

Obviously it's mean to ward off the PSP at least until they get their real GBA successor ready.

I don't think that quote is just referring to whatever this is... it's also referring to the strength of the GBA and the fact that Nintendo's working on another GBA, I think. Though this could be part of it too, who knows.

It's just a N64 that's backwards compatible with SNES games. It's the same system!

I still like it.

Yeah I know, if only there was a way to play GBA games on a TV....

Full screen, genious... I specified that for a reason...

That's the best theory I've heard so far. I remember that gyro thing a long time ago and was curious what would come of it. I'm getting pretty excited about this.

That would be cool, but I won't get too excited about something we know so little about... or need I mention all the debacles surrounding great special Nintendo announcements in the last few years?

[OB1]

I'd say it looks like Super Metroid...

I'd say you're stupid. The game looks even better than Metroid Fusion. Remember that those screens are blown up. The videos are closer to the actual GBA resolution.

[OB1]

Just take a look at that second video. The boss looks and animates amazingly. Easily the best-looking 2D Metroid game.

[A Black Falcon]

It's probably the classic Super Metroid Samus look and not the different style in Fusion that makes it look like Super Metroid the most... but yeah it probably does look better than that game. It's just clearly using a decendant of that style... same as Fusion. :)

[OB1]

I don't think that quote is just referring to whatever this is... it's also referring to the strength of the GBA and the fact that Nintendo's working on another GBA, I think. Though this could be part of it too, who knows.

This is coming out around the same time as the PSP, and Nintendo has stated that the GBA successor won't be out this year.

I still like it.

I think it's neat, but I know that it would be extremely stupid for Nintendo to release such a thing here.

Full screen, genious... I specified that for a reason...

Oh no, you have to deal with tiny borders!!

BTW you spelled genius wrong. :p :kiss:

That would be cool, but I won't get too excited about something we know so little about... or need I mention all the debacles surrounding great special Nintendo announcements in the last few years?

I'm more cynical about Nintendo's announcements than you are, so no you needn't remind me of it.

[A Black Falcon]

This is coming out around the same time as the PSP, and Nintendo has stated that the GBA successor won't be out this year.

I'll say it again. So? I don't find that fact very relevant... Nintendo is right that the PSP isn't serious competition for a while at least.

I think it's neat, but I know that it would be extremely stupid for Nintendo to release such a thing here.

Given the form of media distribution -- small cards and stations -- you can only do so much graphically. N64 level is the most I'd expect...

Oh no, you have to deal with tiny borders!!

BTW you spelled genius wrong.

Oops.

Guess I have to spell it for you then.

R-E-S-O-L-U-T-I-O-N

I'm more cynical about Nintendo's announcements than you are, so no you needn't remind me of it.

Then why get your hope up? :)

Nintendo's problem isn't that its announcements are for bad products, it's that those products aren't really what the general market wants... see Zelda TWW's initial announcement, or Pac-Man Vs...

[OB1]

The style is pretty different from any previous Metroid title, although it resembleFusion's look more than SM's. ZM is going for a more anime-like style, and I think it looks fantastic. The animation of the bosses is especially incredible. Just look at the second video!

And look at these comparison screens between the three games. I scaled down GBA screens to match Fusion's actual resolution. The differences are pretty big. Just look at ZM's backgrounds compared to the other two games, as well as the foreground. And look at the detail on those statues! Although still screens don't do ZM justice, especially considering the incredible animation of the bosses.

Super Metroid



Metroid Fusion



Zero Mission

[OB1]

I'll say it again. So? I don't find that fact very relevant... Nintendo is right that the PSP isn't serious competition for a while at least.

Look at how Satoru Iwata made that comment.

"Basically Sony's multi-function handheld device will not have a big impact on our business, but we are, whether Sony releases a new product or not, preparing for our future...and we'll be able to tell you specifics next spring..."

They're preparing for the future and announcements will be made next (2004) spring. We already know that the big announcement that he's referring to is NOT the GBA successor, but rather this "new and innovative" product.

Given the form of media distribution -- small cards and stations -- you can only do so much graphically. N64 level is the most I'd expect...

What does that have to do with anything...

Oops.

Guess I have to spell it for you then.

R-E-S-O-L-U-T-I-O-N

So... you'd rather see new SNES games than new games on far superior hardware (GBA)? Sure there's a resolution difference, but GBA games still look better on the big screen. Original GBA games, that is.

Then why get your hope up?

Nintendo's problem isn't that its announcements are for bad products, it's that those products aren't really what the general market wants... see Zelda TWW's initial announcement, or Pac-Man Vs...

I'm not getting my hopes up, I just think that it could be a pretty cool announcement. But I'm also preparing to be let down.

Nintendo did not invent the D-Pad.

Who said they did?

[A Black Falcon]

Look at how Satoru Iwata made that comment.

"Basically Sony's multi-function handheld device will not have a big impact on our business, but we are, whether Sony releases a new product or not, preparing for our future...and we'll be able to tell you specifics next spring..."

They're preparing for the future and announcements will be made next (2004) spring. We already know that the big announcement that he's referring to is NOT the GBA successor, but rather this "new and innovative" product.

The PSP won't have a big impact because it's aiming at a different audience. Oh, sure, the GBA is growing in popularity among older gamers, but the PSP is exclusively for them and is going for the 'multi-function' thing that gives it a high price... I agree with Nintendo, it's a different market. And one that is far more likely to have multiple systems too I think... I'm don't think the PSP will in the first six months at least hurt GBA much at all. Nintendo evidently agrees... they aren't aiming for a new GB right at the PSP launch. And given how determined they are to get the N5 out at the same time as the PS3, that says a lot.

As for this thing, again, I wonder how much it could compete with the PSP unless it's a handheld... and if it's a handheld, how would it not be a replacement for the GBA?

So... you'd rather see new SNES games than new games on far superior hardware (GBA)? Sure there's a resolution difference, but GBA games still look better on the big screen. Original GBA games, that is.

Yes, the GBA is far superior hardware, but it's got a smaller screen size so SNES ports are compromised in that way. And they don't generally boost the graphics of SNES GBA ports anyway so that's not an issue...

Games made for a full TV screen look better on that than on the small size of a GBA. Especially when you're displaying them on a TV!

I'm not getting my hopes up, I just think that it could be a pretty cool announcement. But I'm also preparing to be let down.

Sounds about right.