Soul Calibur 3 possibly a PS2 exclusive

[OB1]

At least I'm not imprisoned in a chain of my own memories and can admit when I was off.

Funny how I'm actually right about this and you're not. My memory seems to be a lot better than yours. And just a few posts up you were very certain about your memory until you were proven wrong.

I just love hypocrites.

So you have a perfect memory to go with the rest of your perfection?

Perfect? No. But I do remember what I basically said about TS2.

[A Black Falcon]

ftp://ftp.tcforums.com/www/noncgi/Forum1...01250.html

Zelda music!

Perfect? No. But I do remember what I basically said about TS2.

Did you remember the GE mention? You didn't mention it before I posted the link... you just denied it completely. A mention of GE isn't complete denial-worthy, given how similar GE and PD are...

[OB1]

I denied the PD connection. GE is not PD. They are two very different games, one being much better than the other.

[A Black Falcon]

PD is definitely better than GE, especially in multiplayer options, but you can't deny a lot of people preferred GE...

ftp://ftp.tcforums.com/www/noncgi/Forum1...01454.html

More of teh music! :)

[OB1]

Well I disagree with those people.

[A Black Falcon]

Clearly.

[A Black Falcon]

More. Again, not exactly what DJ remembered, but like the other one, it leads one to undestand why DJ would remember that.

(first part is a quote from GR)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sounds like a game for everyone who wanted a sequel to Perfect Dark.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Johnny, Time Splitters 2 is the "sequel" to PD that everyone has been waiting for.

This is great news, though.

ftp://ftp.tcforums.com/www/noncgi/Forum1...01370.html

Note, both of the threads I've found have been from before TS2 came out. I haven't found any from TC.net or TC.com about TS2 from AFTER it comes out (and I started at the end of the tendocity forum archives, so I'd have found it if the the thread still existed -- some threads are broken or missing, so it's not ALL here.. and there are no TS threads of note on this version of the forum.)...

For an example of 'broken thread', this Free Radical interview thread.

ftp://ftp.tcforums.com/www/noncgi/Forum1...01425.html

[OB1]

Yeah, that's basically what it was. But like many sequels it wasn't as good as the first one. If only the multi had as many options...

[A Black Falcon]

From looking at those old threads, it looks like DJ's opinion was consistently more pessimistic (about TS2)... was that the issue?

[OB1]

Part of it, I'm sure.

[A Black Falcon]

Now I've been searching the archives for that quote, but it seems this version of the board was created AFTER TS2 was released, and since we lost all the old threads, seems as though I won't be able to actually prove what I read. But, know this, OB1 DID state that, at least he THOUGHT, TS2 would be the PD killer. He may not have said it with certainty at the time, just that he THOUGHT it would be that way from the company involved, but he did say it. Then again, to argue it without proof is sort of silly, so I guess I'll need to depend on the reader's memories.

Wait, why am I stating that anyway? ... Wait a sec, I didn't even bring it up in this thread! OB1 did!

Sorry OB1, I'll just let it be I guess. That's not an exact quote anyway, it's paraphrase. Anyway, who cares?

TS2, not a bad game, never said that. However, I must say I really didn't enjoy any aspect of it as much as Perfect Dark.

I'd say based on that DJ probably disagrees with the (admittedly somewhat lesser) two comments of yours I did find... but whatever.

Really, I don't care about Timesplitters because of that multiplayer-focus thing. When I think about GE or PD, I mostly think about the single player... GE a bit more about multi in the form of the botmatches (challenges), which are singleplayer but under multi rules, but still... given how infrequently I play FPS multiplayer, and how I usually get quickly tired of them, I don't see any reason I should care about a multiplayer-focused FPS. Just like Unreal Tournament.

[OB1]

GE and PD were all about the multi.

[A Black Falcon]

Uh, no. Both had single player. GE's was kind of short, and didn't tell the story very well at all (unless you'd seen the movie and knew what was happening), but PD has a story and tells it well enough for an FPS... I enjoyed it. And the challenges are a nice extra, along with stuff like the weapon tests and stuff... multiplayer? I've played it some, it's fun, sure. But as I said, it's a relatively small part of my play of any FPS and thus great multiplayer isn't a great draw for me to a game. I want great single player. So I like PD much more than GE.

I'm not saying multiplayer FPSes are bad games (obviously not), or that I've never had fun, just that they don't hold me for long-time play and replay... after a few matches I start thinking 'what is the point? No records are being recorded, the game doesn't care if I win or lose, every game is pretty similar to the last one, etc', and stop playing... RtCW was a bit better than normal because of the mission-based multiplayer (and I liked the Battlefield demo because of the control-points thing), but still...

The shortness and lack of compelling options once you're finished with the game is why I am perfectly happy to have just borrowed GE for a couple of weeks and not bought it.

[Dark Jaguar]

I'm still pretty sure OB1 said something like that at some point.... But oh well, it doesn't really matter.

Anyway, ya know Goldeneye actually had the multiplayer tossed in as, more or less, an afterthought. That is, they added it but the main thing they worked on was single player. Sure, the reason people kept going back was multi and all, I"m just talking about what Rare said about the design.

And oh yes, so you know ABF, records ARE kept in Perfect Dark. Honestly, the point to me is to win that match. I never really have an overall goal except to get better. Also, today's FPS games tend to have ladder boards so you can keep a worldwide ranking there, well, nationwide anyway.

Oh yes, I SUCK at Halo 2. Oh sure, I was pretty good back in whatever hole I crawled out of, but online, I'm fish paste.

[A Black Falcon]

I'm still pretty sure OB1 said something like that at some point.... But oh well, it doesn't really matter.

Given the two comments I found, I wouldn't exactly be surprised. I didn't find that exact comment, but I didn't look in every thread (looked in 1250-1500, but not before 1250 (August '02 sometime), and not all the threads are still fully intact. And anyway, the two I found are pretty darn close...

And oh yes, so you know ABF, records ARE kept in Perfect Dark. Honestly, the point to me is to win that match. I never really have an overall goal except to get better. Also, today's FPS games tend to have ladder boards so you can keep a worldwide ranking there, well, nationwide anyway.

I meant PC FPSes. Console ones I get almost no opportunities to play multiplayer so it doesn't matter if they do or not. If I had X-Box Live that'd be different, of course (that is, if I then bought an FPS that used Live -- no certain thing!), but I don't.

Anyway, ya know Goldeneye actually had the multiplayer tossed in as, more or less, an afterthought. That is, they added it but the main thing they worked on was single player. Sure, the reason people kept going back was multi and all, I"m just talking about what Rare said about the design.

When you compare GE to PD, that's pretty clear, yes.

[Dark Jaguar]

Speaking of XBox Live, I think I may be getting a Splinter Cell Chaos Theorum in a few days. Honestly, the main draw at this point is the multiplayer. I'd get Peanut Butter Monkey, but the 3rd game is coming out in a few days so I can wait.

[A Black Falcon]

I'd want Capcom vs SNK 2 for X-Box Live more than I'd want Halo 2... :)

[OB1]

Uh, no. Both had single player.

*gasp* NO!!

Given the two comments I found, I wouldn't exactly be surprised. I didn't find that exact comment, but I didn't look in every thread (looked in 1250-1500, but not before 1250 (August '02 sometime), and not all the threads are still fully intact. And anyway, the two I found are pretty darn close...

They're not even remotely close. When the accusation at hand is that I said something very specific and not "something close", you two are 100% WRONG. It's like being accused of saying "I hate fish", when I actually said "I like fish". Yes. the two statements are very similar to each other. YET MEAN COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS.

[Private Hudson]

Woah woah!! Goldeneye and Perfect Dark had single player campaigns!?

[Great Rumbler]

That's uncredible!

You do know, ABF, that TS2 has a single-player mode, don't you?

[OB1]

THAT'S UNSTREEM!!!

[A Black Falcon]

They're not even remotely close. When the accusation at hand is that I said something very specific and not "something close", you two are 100% WRONG. It's like being accused of saying "I hate fish", when I actually said "I like fish". Yes. the two statements are very similar to each other. YET MEAN COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS.

"TS2 is better than PD" isn't that different from "TS2 is better than GE" and "TS2 is similar to, but slightly worse than, PD".

Note: Before I found this stuff, you completely denied anything. Now you're saying you said things, but not exactly what DJ remembers. Who knows, you may be right, it's really irrelevant... the relevant part is how you consistently said how you thought TS2 would be a great game and a decent followup to the Rare FPSes, and DJ said it really wasn't. Note that DJ was disagreeing with the comments we DO have proof you said -- should it really matter a whole lot if you said one more thing in addition to those?

You do know, ABF, that TS2 has a single-player mode, don't you?

When I hear "multi-player focus", I read "the single player didn't get as much attention in development and you won't get nearly as much satisfaction from it as you will from the multiplayer". That is, if you're not playing multiplayer, why bother, really?

[Great Rumbler]

The single-player in TS2 is at least as good as the single-player in Goldeneye, possibly a bit better. Whether or not Rare put more effort into the single-player or not doesn't really matter that much, the point is most people came back to play the multi-player for many, many hours [I know I did] and not the single-player. The single-player in GE wasn't bad, but it wasn't nearly as good as the single-player in PD, which had a whole lot more to it.

[A Black Falcon]

GE's single player was fun, as far as it went, but it was lacking in a lot of ways as I've described before... PD definitely did a much better job.

[Great Rumbler]

Exactly, the multiplayer, on the other hand, could last hundreds of hours [which, for me, it did], the singleplayer didn't last nearly as long. It's not even close really.

[OB1]

"TS2 is better than PD" isn't that different from "TS2 is better than GE" and "TS2 is similar to, but slightly worse than, PD".

Note: Before I found this stuff, you completely denied anything. Now you're saying you said things, but not exactly what DJ remembers. Who knows, you may be right, it's really irrelevant... the relevant part is how you consistently said how you thought TS2 would be a great game and a decent followup to the Rare FPSes, and DJ said it really wasn't. Note that DJ was disagreeing with the comments we DO have proof you said -- should it really matter a whole lot if you said one more thing in addition to those?

Stupid, I denied calling it a PD-killer, which is true. Saying that it would be better than Goldeneye and that it's sort of like a new Perfect Dark is very different. If you can't wrap that tiny little brain of yours around that simple concept then I suggest you check yourself into a mental institution ASAP.

[A Black Falcon]

I can't imagine playing hundreds of hours of multiplayer of any one FPS... they're fun for a short time, but as I said, get boring. I'd say 'I'd rather play a strategy game', but actually, I haven't played most strategy games all that much online either... the main exception, of course, is Blizzard.

What games have I put hundreds of hours into online? Very few, actually. I'd say that probably it's only Starcraft, Warcraft III, and probably Netstorm. That's probably it.

But as I've said before, that's just a statement about how utterly brilliant Blizzard is... SC/WCIII are just about perfect. Why play anything else (in the genre)?

As for Netstorm, it's just so completely unique and original (It's still, after over seven years, a completely unique game. There's nothing else like it.) that I've returned to it every so often over the years. Age of Empires 2, or Red Alert 2, or whatever else, are more similar to Blizz FPSes (they're standard FPS games), so I'd rather just play some B.Net (something custom, probably), but Netstorm is different so I'm pretty sure it's the one online game that's even within a few hundred hours of the amount of time I've played Blizz RTSes. (and make no mistake about it, it's a fairly distant third, hours-wise)

[OB1]

Look at my post.

[A Black Falcon]

Stupid, I denied calling it a PD-killer, which is true. Saying that it would be better than Goldeneye and that it's sort of like a new Perfect Dark is very different. If you can't wrap that tiny little brain of yours around that simple concept then I suggest you check yourself into a mental institution ASAP.

It's different, but either statement is a statement that you think TS2 is a pretty good (and worth getting) game, so the overall effect isn't very different: you made positive references to the game that compared it in some fashion to Rare's FPSes. DJ disagreed with your assertion. It's really not very complex.

As for me, standard FPSes just bore me, even if they are fun for a while or in some mindless sense... it's just dull. Whoopie, another game where I run down a cooridor with a gun? Even if you game is good, it's been done so many times before that it's a tired concept... and one that I've never liked as much as some other kinds of games.

[OB1]

TS2 is a good game, genius. But I NEVER called it a "PD-killer", or even suggested that it would be better than PD. So you and DJ are idiots.

[Great Rumbler]

I can't imagine playing hundreds of hours of multiplayer of any one FPS.

I can, and did. One of my friends and I would play GE [and later PD] for hours ever day, this went on for several months. We put an insane amount of hours into and never got tired of playing it.

Whoopie, another game where I run down a cooridor with a gun

I thought you said that you liked Serious Sam? That's the worst of the bunch as far as that is concerned!

but either statement is a statement that you think TS2 is a pretty good (and worth getting) game

Which is a true statement. TS2 is "pretty good", it's not an "awesome" game, but it's fun and you can easily put quite a few hours into it if you have a few friends, or even one friend.

[A Black Falcon]

I thought you said that you liked Serious Sam? That's the worst of the bunch as far as that is concerned!

The demo was fun. I never considered buying the full game. (and I did say 'even if I do find the game fun for a while/in some way')

I can, and did. One of my friends and I would play GE [and later PD] for hours ever day, this went on for several months. We put an insane amount of hours into and never got tired of playing it.

A few matches are fun, but I'd much rather play a variety of games... or something with co-op play, those are good for longer-term multiplayer. Unless they're really short games, of course... :D (see Battletanx: Global Assualt)

Which is a true statement. TS2 is "pretty good", it's not an "awesome" game, but it's fun and you can easily put quite a few hours into it if you have a few friends, or even one friend.

Haven't played it so I can't say.

[OB1]

You missed my post again.

[Private Hudson]

OB1, it'd be much quicker if you just said; "Well I think TS2 is better than Perfect Dark!!".

ABF seems to be taking DJ's opinion on TS2 being a PD killer as fact.

As it remains, TS2 is still he best console FPS this generation. And I wouldn't call it's multiplayer just another game where you hold a gun and run down a corridor. It's freakin' INSANE. You could almost call it a 'twitch FPS'.

[OB1]

It'd be quicker, but I'd be lying and I also don't like to let dumb wrong people "win".

[A Black Falcon]

ABF seems to be taking DJ's opinion on TS2 being a PD killer as fact.

I do trust DJ more than OB1, but it's not like I'm saying DJ is right about how fun a game I've never played is... I was trying to figure out what was actually said. :)

TS2 is a good game, genius. But I NEVER called it a "PD-killer", or even suggested that it would be better than PD. So you and DJ are idiots.

DJ thinks you did, but could be wrong (remembering those comments I found and in memory thinking you went on to say TS2 was going to be better than PD)... but as for what I think, who knows. When it was mentioned I remembered you saying something, but I didn't remember what, so either of you could be right about the details, if it really matters much...

As it remains, TS2 is still he best console FPS this generation. And I wouldn't call it's multiplayer just another game where you hold a gun and run down a corridor. It's freakin' INSANE. You could almost call it a 'twitch FPS'.

Sorry, cooridors are for the single-player missions. Multiplayer levels are fancy squares. :)

[OB1]

I do trust DJ more than OB1, but it's not like I'm saying DJ is right about how fun a game I've never played is... I was trying to figure out what was actually said.

You already found out what was said. Grow a brain already.

DJ thinks you did, but could be wrong (remembering those comments I found and in memory thinking you went on to say TS2 was going to be better than PD)... but as for what I think, who knows. When it was mentioned I remembered you saying something, but I didn't remember what, so either of you could be right about the details, if it really matters much...

You people are amazing. You can't find one shred of evidence supporting your bullshit claims, yet plenty supporting my opinion. Yet of course, as per usual ABF behavior, you are now trying to twist the facts to fit your opinion. Hypocrisy at its finest. You and DJ should get married and have a little mentally-retarded kid together. You're so perfect for each other.

[A Black Falcon]

OB1, we know that those two comments were not the only two made. So without knowing exactly what else was said, how can we definitively say if you said any one thing or not? All we can say is that perhaps it's doubtful based on the idea that even then (before TS2 came out) you thought TS2 wouldn't be as good as PD (as evidenced by using quotes around "sequel" to PD, perhaps?).

[OB1]

DJ specifically said that I called it a "PD Killer", when I never suggested that it would be better than that game. And I have never seriously called something a whatever-killer.

You have no basis for your argument, LIKE USUAL. So you, and DJ, need to stop being assholes and admit that you're wrong. I know it's impossible for you to do, but try your best!

[A Black Falcon]

DJ specifically said that I called it a "PD Killer"

Or something in different words to that effect. DJ never said that those were your exact words.

You have no basis for your argument, LIKE USUAL. So you, and DJ, need to stop being assholes and admit that you're wrong. I know it's impossible for you to do, but try your best!

Stop it. Look at what was actually said, not what your anger says.

First, what has DJ actually said since I posted this stuff?

Well looks like I didn't get it exactly right, but eh, close enough. At least I'm not imprisoned in a chain of my own memories and can admit when I was off. Still not sure if that's the EXACT quote I got that memory from, but oh well. ABF will find it, or Smoke.

and

'm still pretty sure OB1 said something like that at some point.... But oh well, it doesn't really matter.

Anyway, ya know Goldeneye actually had the multiplayer tossed in as, more or less, an afterthought. That is, they added it but the main thing they worked on was single player. Sure, the reason people kept going back was multi and all, I"m just talking about what Rare said about the design.

Not at all in keeping with what you describe there.

As for me, I've said that without all the evidence we can't make a final decision, but you're probably right that you didn't say TS2 will be better than PD -- though you said other things that were in strong support of the game and compared it to GE and PD.

It's called following the facts, OB1. The facts do not say "You said TS2 is better than PD". They also do not say "You definitely did not say TS2 is better than PD."

So why should I say "The latter is definitely true"?

How do they compare? I don't know! Sure, perhaps it's got multiplayer about as good as PD or GE, whatever... I just doubt very much it's got single player as good as PD, and that's why I'd be cautious about comparing them.

[Great Rumbler]

TS2 is still he best console FPS this generation.

It's good, but I definitely have to put Metroid Prime 1 and Echoes above it.

A few matches are fun, but I'd much rather play a variety of games.

So do I, but that doesn't mean that I don't like to play some games a lot. Besides, multiplayer with the other people sitting there with you is incredibly fun.

It's freakin' INSANE. You could almost call it a 'twitch FPS'.

Especially the extremely small levels that are full of people. Now that's some crazy stuff right there. My friend and I racked up several hundred kills, in TS1, once with tommy guns on a level like that, now that was crazy. Plus, it has some hilarious multiplayer modes, like the one where people you touch turn into zombies or catch on fire. Fun stuff.

So without knowing exactly what else was said, how can we definitively say if you said any one thing or not?

Let's talk about what TS2 IS not what someone three years ago, before the game even came out, might or might not have said that TS2 might be!!!

[A Black Falcon]

It's good, but I definitely have to put Metroid Prime 1 and Echoes above it.

Metroid isn't an FPS. :)

So do I, but that doesn't mean that I don't like to play some games a lot. Besides, multiplayer with the other people sitting there with you is incredibly fun.

No, I meant a mix of multiplayer games -- like for N64, Rush 2049, F-Zero X, Wipeout 64, perhaps Gauntlet Legends and SSB... Battletanx: Global Assualt, Goemon's Great Adventure... I don't play one game to the exclusion of the others when I play multiplayer console games, except, as I said, perhaps for a few days immediately after I buy a game or if it's got a big co-op mode (like Tales of Symphonia or Rebel Strike).

[Great Rumbler]

Metroid isn't an FPS.

Metroid Prime 1 and Echoes are better games than TS2. Now shut up!!

o, I meant a mix of multiplayer games

During that time I also played SSB, Mario Tennis, 3 different Mario Party games, and I'm sure there were some other ones as well. Happy?

Quoted for emphasis:

Let's talk about what TS2 IS not what someone three years ago, before the game even came out, might or might not have said that TS2 might be!!!

[A Black Falcon]

Metroid Prime 1 and Echoes are better games than TS2. Now shut up!!

And Star Fox 64 is a better game than X-Wing... but given that they're in different genres, it's kind of hard to compare. :)

During that time I also played SSB, Mario Tennis, 3 different Mario Party games, and I'm sure there were some other ones as well. Happy?

Yes. :)

Let's talk about what TS2 IS not what someone three years ago, before the game even came out, might or might not have said that TS2 might be!!!

But what's the fun in THAT? :D

[Great Rumbler]

But what's the fun in THAT?

It's a lose/lose situation.

And Star Fox 64 is a better game than X-Wing... but given that they're in different genres, it's kind of hard to compare.

You're just not trying hard enough.

Yes.

Well, okay then.

[Private Hudson]

Yeah, I'd definately say the FP Metroid games are adventure. But, yeah, if you count them s shooters (as, I suppose it could be considered that) then it'd be close. Metroid's single player was pretty amazing. But so was TS2 with 3 friends over... mmmm, tough call.

[A Black Falcon]

MP2 has a decent multiplayer mode... maybe not good for hundreds of hours, but plenty of fun to play for half an hour every once in a while.

[Great Rumbler]

But so was TS2 with 3 friends over... mmmm, tough call.

You're right about one thing, TS2 with 3 friends is a blast.

[Dark Jaguar]

Just to make it clear, I never actually said you called it a PD killer, well not in those words really. In fact, the "quote" which I admitted in that post that I pretty much just paraphrased from what I remember you saying in the past, didn't even include that phrase.

What I said was I remember you saying something to the effect of "hey if you loved Perfect Dark you should get Time Splitters 2!". You know, something like that, but I really wasn't saying you said that EXACTLY. In fact what I said just now wasn't EXACTLY what I said in the first place, because I'm too lazy to go back a few posts. All I'm saying is I never claimed you EXACTLY said that, just that you said something to that effect.

So yes OB1, you are right. You NEVER said it was a PD-Killer.

[OB1]

Stop it. Look at what was actually said, not what your anger says.

First, what has DJ actually said since I posted this stuff?
Quote:
Well looks like I didn't get it exactly right, but eh, close enough. At least I'm not imprisoned in a chain of my own memories and can admit when I was off. Still not sure if that's the EXACT quote I got that memory from, but oh well. ABF will find it, or Smoke.

and
Quote:
'm still pretty sure OB1 said something like that at some point.... But oh well, it doesn't really matter.

Anyway, ya know Goldeneye actually had the multiplayer tossed in as, more or less, an afterthought. That is, they added it but the main thing they worked on was single player. Sure, the reason people kept going back was multi and all, I"m just talking about what Rare said about the design.

Not at all in keeping with what you describe there.

Yes, DJ sort-of conceded defeat, but you, Mr. Troll, decided to continue. Because you have no life.

As for me, I've said that without all the evidence we can't make a final decision, but you're probably right that you didn't say TS2 will be better than PD -- though you said other things that were in strong support of the game and compared it to GE and PD.

It's called following the facts, OB1. The facts do not say "You said TS2 is better than PD". They also do not say "You definitely did not say TS2 is better than PD."

So why should I say "The latter is definitely true"?

How do they compare? I don't know! Sure, perhaps it's got multiplayer about as good as PD or GE, whatever... I just doubt very much it's got single player as good as PD, and that's why I'd be cautious about comparing them.

Your logic is incredible! So even though all of the evidence points in my favor, because we don't have all of the hypothetical evidence in the world, YOU are right.

Your ignorance astounds me.

Just to make it clear, I never actually said you called it a PD killer, well not in those words really. In fact, the "quote" which I admitted in that post that I pretty much just paraphrased from what I remember you saying in the past, didn't even include that phrase.

What I said was I remember you saying something to the effect of "hey if you loved Perfect Dark you should get Time Splitters 2!". You know, something like that, but I really wasn't saying you said that EXACTLY. In fact what I said just now wasn't EXACTLY what I said in the first place, because I'm too lazy to go back a few posts. All I'm saying is I never claimed you EXACTLY said that, just that you said something to that effect.

So yes OB1, you are right. You NEVER said it was a PD-Killer.

Actually you did claim that, and you even stated it as an actual quote. I still stand by that statement, that if you liked PD you'll probably like TS2. That does not mean that TS2 is the better game, and I NEVER suggested that.

Now get some lives already.