EGM scores. Some pretty big games.

[Private Hudson]

Thanks to vireland(confirmed by ferricide(EGM staff)) and skip(EGM staff)

MGS 3 9, 9.5, 10
NFSU 2 8, 9, 8
GTA:SA 10,10,10 (GOTM)
Halo 2 10,10,10 (GOTM)
MP:2 9, 9, 10
Killzone 7, 7.5, 8
Mario tennis 9, 7.5, 8
Outrun 2 6, 6.5, 8
Baten Kaitos 6.5, 8, 7.5
GODZILLA SAVE THE EARTH 6.0, 4.5, 5.5
FIGHT CLUB 2.5, 3.0, 2.0
Growlanser Generations 7,7,8

And yes, these are confirmed by EGM staffers themeseleves so don't ask for scans or stuff.

He's from GAF(gaming age)
http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread....2743#post582743
you can look at page 6 on that thread if have to see for yourself.

Plus there is thread where I collected all the info and put it out, and then EGM staffers put out some other
scores from the month.

http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=22063

Huzzah. Great scores for lots of games. Hot damn.

[A Black Falcon]

Relatively low for Baten Kaitos though...

[Great Rumbler]

It's lower than I thought it would be, but still about an average of 7.5 isn't that bad. I'll still be getting it.

MP2 really should have gotten all tens, though.

[The Former DMiller]

That Baten Kaitos score worries me. I have to read that review.

[A Black Falcon]

Yeah, I want the reasons they scored it so low (comparitively)... Mario Tennis's scores are just about right though.

[Smoke]

Doesn't EGM usually have only one GOTM? That and the all 10's for GTA: SA and Halo 2 makes the cynic in me think they were just appeasing the fanboys.

[OB1]

GTA SA is a lot of fun when you're not playing the main missions, and since you have to play through them in order to get to the real fun in the game, it definitely does not deserve three 10's. And Halo 2, well EGM gave the first gave straight 10's as well so they're opinion is worthless to me.

And the Metroid Echoes scores are what I expected, since there wasn't a huge graphical upgrade over the first Prime and the game is supposed to be a lot harder this time around, and almost all of EGM's reviewers can't stand tough games.

[A Black Falcon]

9 9 10 is a really good score, OB1, so I don't see anywhere you could complain about that...

And in this case I might see their point about difficulty, if indeed they complained about it, because MP1 was already quite challenging...

[OB1]

MP was easy, except for the last boss. As long as Prime 2 isn't cheap-hard like Fusion I'll be fine.

9 9 10 are good scores, but not as good as 10 10 10. That's my point.

[A Black Falcon]

Prime is way harder than Fusion! ... but we've had this discussion before. But difficulty and length wise Prime wins easily, especially on the length issue...

[OB1]

Yes, we've established that you suck at most 3D games. And Metroid games. But moreso the 3D Metroids.

Here's how the series ranks in terms of difficulty:

1(hardest). Metroid
2. Metroid Fusion
3. Metroid II
4. Metroid Prime (because of the last boss)
5. Super Metroid
6. Metroid Zero Mission

And in terms of overall quality:

1. Super Metroid
2. Metroid Prime
3. Zero Mission
4. Metroid Fusion
5. Metroid II
6. Metroid

[Great Rumbler]

Metroid Prime was way easy, except for the last boss. Fusion, on the other hard, was extremely hard because of how fast your life went down.

[OB1]

And because of the super-cheap bosses (which were TOTALLY cheap no matter what DJ says).

[Great Rumbler]

Absolutely.

[OB1]

Yay for us totally right people!!

[Great Rumbler]

*has a big party*

[Private Hudson]

Well you all suck for not celebrating Metal Gear Solid 3: Go fuck yourselves.

[The Former DMiller]

I don't really remember Fusion being all that hard. I only died a few times in the game. Prime was challenging, but I wouldn't really consider it hard. The final boss was definitely tough, though.

[OB1]

Nightmare in Fusion is the cheapest boss in Metroid history. You could eventually beat Prime without losing much life, but it's impossible to do so in Fusion. That is why it is a cheap boss.

Well you all suck for not celebrating Metal Gear Solid 3: Go fuck yourselves.

Are you kidding me? I cannot wait to play MGS3. Right now I want to play it as much as MP2 because I loved the story of MGS2 and can't wait to see what happens. The EGM guys said that it's by far the best MGS yet, though unfortunately (to me) the story isn't as insane as it was in MGS2. They all said that it's an extremely satisfying game, and a pretty long one too (~30 hours).

Oh and I got the EGM issue yesterday and my presumptions were wrong. None of the reviewers complained about it being too hard. The reason why two of the reviewers gave the game a 9 is because... the game barely has a story.

Yeah. That's it. It's because the story sucks. [sarcasm]Oh no![/sarcasm] That's a bit disappointing but really I don't care too much. They did say that the game is much harder than the first Prime, but not cheap hard, which is what I was worrying about. So yay!

[A Black Falcon]

I'm sure that it has a plenty good story, just like Prime does, if you bother to want to look for it. They must be like you and hate doing that...

[Great Rumbler]

As long as MP2 doesn't have less story than MP1 I'll be fine.

[OB1]

I'm sure that it has a plenty good story, just like Prime does, if you bother to want to look for it. They must be like you and hate doing that...

As in that they know the difference between good storytelling and non-existent story-telling, yes. Prime did not tell a good story, and apprently neither does Echoes. That's fine by me.

[A Black Falcon]

It did, but I don't think you'll ever admit it.

[OB1]

*sigh*

You don't know what good storytelling is, Brian. End of discussion.

[A Black Falcon]

And you don't know what a good story is, end of discussion. :)

[OB1]

Great rebuttal, Brian. Great rebuttal.

So sad...

[Great Rumbler]

MP had a fairly good story, but it wasn't exactly told in the best way possible. There are better ways than having to scan every computer screen you see and hoping the next one will have something interesting.

[A Black Falcon]

You missed my point. That is, that story and storytelling are different and MP has a very good story. Storytelling? The way they do it is unorthodox so I can see how it could be questioned. But you can't really question the story itsself if you take the effort to find it.

What GR said there confirms my position.

[OB1]

Uh, GR said the same exact thing I said. There's a decent story in the game, but it's not told well at all. A movie can have a good story but still be terrible if the story isn't told well. Same thing goes for books.

[A Black Falcon]

That isn't what you said and you know it...

[OB1]

You can dig up that old debate for yourself. Go ahead, I love proving you wrong over and over.

[A Black Falcon]

In this thread you certainly have not implied in any way that MP had a good story...

And besides, you say that EGM says that MP2 has a bad story. Okay, do they mean a bad story as in presentation, or as in the actual story itsself? Those are very different things...

[OB1]

In this thread you certainly have not implied in any way that MP had a good story...

I didn't need to because this is a continuation of an old debate.

And besides, you say that EGM says that MP2 has a bad story. Okay, do they mean a bad story as in presentation, or as in the actual story itsself? Those are very different things...

No matter what content there is, a story is a bad story if it is not told well. This is what makes certain movies or books bad; how the story was told. Amateur filmmakers, for instance, can have interesting ideas and raw story, but if they fail to tell the story well the entire film fails.

Think about this: What would be more interesting, watching The Lord of the Rings movies or hearing someone talk about the story in a dull manner? Both instances would contain all of the plot. Even you should realize what the correct answer is.

[A Black Falcon]

The problem is, MP doesn't present its story in a dull or uninteresting manner!

[EdenMaster]

I never had a problem with Fusion either. By Nightmare, are you referring to the final boss? If so, I beat him down quick. All you need to do is aim diagonally.

And what is the problem with the missions in SA? I'm having more fun with them than anythign else. If I want to drive around shooting people and stealing cars, I'll go play GTA3. This is a new story, new scenery, new characters, and that's what I'm interested in.

Oh, and I may spontaneously combust the day I get Snake Eater. So long as there are no more weird twists like the Otacon scandal in MGS 2, I'll be fine with whatever zany plot that Kideo Kojima can dream up on the crapper.

[OB1]

The problem is, MP doesn't present its story in a dull or uninteresting manner!

It barely even presents it at all!

Make sure you never become a storyteller of any kind, alright?

I never had a problem with Fusion either. By Nightmare, are you referring to the final boss? If so, I beat him down quick. All you need to do is aim diagonally.

The final boss in Fusion was a cinch. Nightmare was that super-cheap boss halfway through the game that kept on screwing with the gravity. He was a cheap boss because it's impossibly to beat him without losing more than half your life. The last boss in Prime was pretty tough but you could eventually get much better at it after you figured out the "puzzle" and had good enough hand-eye coordination. All good Metroid bosses have a puzzle to them, a method of beating them that can be mastered up to the point where you don't have to lose any health. Nightmare is not one such boss, therefore he is cheap.

And what is the problem with the missions in SA? I'm having more fun with them than anythign else. If I want to drive around shooting people and stealing cars, I'll go play GTA3. This is a new story, new scenery, new characters, and that's what I'm interested in.

The missions in the GTA series have never been fun. They're a huge chore. A means to and end, you know what I mean? Screw up one tiny thing and you have to start over. And starting over is usually a huge chore because you have to drive all the way back to the mission starting point.

Oh, and I may spontaneously combust the day I get Snake Eater. So long as there are no more weird twists like the Otacon scandal in MGS 2, I'll be fine with whatever zany plot that Kideo Kojima can dream up on the crapper.

"the Otacon scandal"? That was such a small part of the story...

[A Black Falcon]

It barely even presents it at all!

Make sure you never become a storyteller of any kind, alright?

It doesn't force the story on you no, but it lays it out there so anyone who WANTS to see the story can. I don't see any problem with making it optional, it's really the same principle as allowing you to skip cutscenes taken to a higher level...

[OB1]

It doesn't force the story on you no, but it lays it out there so anyone who WANTS to see the story can. I don't see any problem with making it optional, it's really the same principle as allowing you to skip cutscenes taken to a higher level...

Your mind works in strange, bizarro ways, Brian. :screwy:

[A Black Falcon]

Think about it for a minuite. Being able to skip the story versus being able to choose if you want to read the story. ... get it now?

[OB1]

That's retarded thinking. In MGS if you skip the cut scenes you'll have no idea what's going on, but in Prime if you don't read stuff it doesn't make a difference. And MGS tells a story very well, even if it does it in a cheap way (I consider cinematics to be a bit cheap). Prime does not. The bits of information you can scan does not amount to a well-told story. Only a fool would think otherwise.

[Great Rumbler]

"the Otacon scandal"? That was such a small part of the story...

Still really disturbing.

[OB1]

At least they weren't related by blood...

[Private Hudson]

Not so disturbing, just trying to bring more depth to the characters. Was also an obvious Shakespearian reference.

The only problem with MGS2's plot that I can think of is that it's somewhat derivitive from 2001: A Space Odysey. Though, I think he acknowledges that subtly and obviously in the game. So that's ok.

[EdenMaster]

Metroid Prime takes the storyline and, in a way makes it an OPTIONAL part of the game. I don't like that. Just tell me what the hell is going on.

MGS2 had a good story but...it just got so damn ZANY. I know I shouldn't expect realism from the MGS series but come on, it really kind of pushed it.

[Great Rumbler]

At least they weren't related by blood...

\

Okay, but come on, you can't tell me that you didn't shudder just a bit when he made his stunning pronouncement?

MGS2 had a good story but...it just got so damn ZANY. I know I shouldn't expect realism from the MGS series but come on, it really kind of pushed it.

But that's what made it such a fun game to play. :D

[OB1]

Not so disturbing, just trying to bring more depth to the characters. Was also an obvious Shakespearian reference.

Yeah I really didn't have a problem with it. Whenever things got overdramatic in MGS2 it was for a very specific reason and not the fault of bad dialogue or acting. People tend to look at everything from one specific, narrow point of view. That's why people called MGS2's plot inane and crappy, when it's actually probably the most brilliantly-done story in gaming history.

The only problem with MGS2's plot that I can think of is that it's somewhat derivitive from 2001: A Space Odysey. Though, I think he acknowledges that subtly and obviously in the game. So that's ok.

Could you elaborate on that?

Metroid Prime takes the storyline and, in a way makes it an OPTIONAL part of the game. I don't like that. Just tell me what the hell is going on.

Exactly. It's neat to get all of the bits of info in the game, but much like NES games that basically put all of the story into the instruction manual, you cannot say that the games told a good narrative.

MGS2 had a good story but...it just got so damn ZANY. I know I shouldn't expect realism from the MGS series but come on, it really kind of pushed it.

You should really check out this thread: http://tcforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2260
There's a terrific article linked in there that basically articulated and eloquently explained what I've always thought about MGS2's storyline. I was always defending the craziness to my friend who hated all of the over-the-top and over-dramatized parts of the game until I showed him that article which basically argued my points better than I was ever able to, and once he realized what the game was trying to do he went "Ohhhhhhh, so that's what the deal was!".

Okay, but come on, you can't tell me that you didn't shudder just a bit when he made his stunning pronouncement?

A bit, yeah. But they weren't related, so it wasn't that disgusting. Cousins liking each other is far more disturbing (and comedic, in the case of Arrested Development) to me.

[A Black Falcon]

Exactly. It's neat to get all of the bits of info in the game, but much like NES games that basically put all of the story into the instruction manual, you cannot say that the games told a good narrative.

But piecing together the narrative is a big part of why the story is good! If it just told you it up front it'd seem less interesting, I bet... at least in my opinion...

[OB1]

When a movie is non-linear in structure and you have to put everything together in your mind while you're watching is (like the terrific Mexan movie Amores Perros), then it works. Well, as long as it's executed well enough. But in the case of Metroid Prime where the story is pretty much just pieces of an instruction manual spread all across the levels, that is NOT good storytelling. You can delude yourself as much as you want to, Brian, but you are very much wrong about this. Very wrong.

Take some literature or film classes and then come back to me.

[A Black Falcon]

Games aren't film and should not be laid out the same way as film (unless you're playing MGS...), so what would that prove? Not much.

[OB1]

I suppose you're also going to say that movies aren't books so they shouldn't follow any of the same basic storytelling rules that good books do, right?

Developers still haven't quite figured out the ideal way to tell stories in video games, but the currently-popular method of putting in movies throughout the game works a lot better than the instruction manual back story way that Prime uses. Prime does not tell a good story, and anyone who really enjoys good stories will tell you that. All of the reviews state that. There's nothing wrong with the scanning stuff, but it is in no way good storytelling. It really is the equivalent of instruction manual back stories.

I suppose you also think that Mega Man X tells a great story, what with all of the neat stuff talked about in the instruction manual.