Hero

[Dark Jaguar]

Is a good movie, VERY good. The fighting actually conveys the fighter's thoughts! I mean, it's frickin' GOOD!

THIS is what the action genre SHOULD be!

[Fittisize]

Hero looks like an awesome movie. I'm gonna see it next Friday, after the first few days of school are done.

[Dark Jaguar]

Take note the previews were hardly enough. Not only did they JUST show the fighting parts, and not even the best parts, but they SEVERLY mislead you regarding a lot of scenes, namely when they occur in the story. Such is the nature of previews, but at the very least, they didn't spoil anything.

Oh yes, I hope you don't mind subtitles.

And another oh yes, Quinten Terrenhoweveryouspellthat hardly had ANYTHING to do with this movie at all. The only thing he did was oversee translation of it into english, and that's it.

[alien space marine]

Why did they call it Rod Serlings Night Galleries? He was just the host maybe because of the success of the ealier Twilight Zone (he directed) that they just wanted his household name as a marketing ploy.

Since Kill Bill V1-2 was a hit Just slaping Quentins name will get people who normaly wouldnt watch the movie to see it because of Kill Bill.I dont like Jet Li movies but because of Quentins name my curiousity was triggerd so I might see it now.

[Great Rumbler]

I dont like Jet Li movies

Remember though, this isn't some Hollywoodized action movie with Jet Li in it because they paid him a bunch of money, this is an authentic Hong Kong film with Jet Li.

I saw it about a year ago when it was released on DVD in HK, it was a great movie then and seeing it on the big screen with good subtitles only makes it better.

[Private Hudson]

I bet it won't be as good as The One...


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Oh God I hated The One, I can't believe I just said that.

[Dark Jaguar]

Wait, everything I've read has said it's Chinese, not Korean.

[Great Rumbler]

Korean? Who said it's a Korean movie?

[Dark Jaguar]

Oh, you said Hong Kong. Oh well, same thing :D.

[OB1]

Good Lord, you think that Hong Kong is the same as Korea?? Have you ever taken Geography before? :p But yeah the movie is from Mainland China, though the fight choreographer and most of its stars are from Hong Kong.

Hero is great, and I talked about it two friggin' years ago when it first came out (and when it got nominated for an oscar two oscars ago), and everyone but GR ignored me. Figure that.

Tarantino had nothing to do with any aspect of the movie, he just told stupid Harvey Weinstein that it might be good to finally release this amazing movie after sitting on it for TWO DAMN YEARS, so he gave in and slapped Tarantino's name on the posters to garner more attention. The original running time of the movie was actually 120 minutes but since Miramax helped finance the movie they of course cut it down to 90 minutes, even in China and Hong Kong. Because of this and the way they just sat on the movie for two years, the director Zhang Yimou decided to get Sony Pictures Classics to distribute his next martial arts epic, House of Flying Daggers. And get this: HOFD was released in China just over a month ago and awesome Sony is releasing it in the U.S. THIS YEAR, uncut and subtitled. See how much better they are? Also, while the subs in this U.S. release are very good, they changed a few things that do have a pretty profound effect on the story. You know that thing that Tony Leung's character wrote in the sand, and what the emperor had over his head (the big red banner)? Well in the U.S. version they translated it as "all over land", while it actually reads "all under heaven". I guess they didn't want to offend non-religious people or something. Pretty idiotic, huh?

And just so you know DJ, Hero is not much different from most good action movies from Hong Kong, it's just that now you've actually sat down and seen one in its original language and were able to finally appreciate one movie from that age-old genre. :)

Ooh, and now you guys have to see the incredible Rashomon, a 50's Akira Kurosawa movie which Hero takes it narrative structure from, with one story being told by several different people. Rashomon has a far deeper story of course, but it's in black and white and has no fighting so some people might be turned off by it. :D

Anyways, I'm glad you guys enjoyed it. Maybe this will open your eyes to the many great movies made outside of the U.S.

[Great Rumbler]

Well in the U.S. version they translated it as "all over land", while it actually reads "all under heaven".

Actually in the U.S. version it said "Our Land".

[OB1]

Well it was something like that. Still stupid.

[alien space marine]

They should go with land under heaven it said it in many of my history books when I went to school .

As for Hong Kong its a island rock conquered by the British Empire from china a long time ago , It was made into a colony and fucntioned as a trading centre and military garrison so that England would not have to abide by the Chinese trading laws that forbided people from trading english goods like Clocks and shoes ect..

[OB1]

And in 1997 China took over, but it's still a democratic island. HKSAR, Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.

[alien space marine]

And in 1997 China took over, but it's still a democratic island. HKSAR, Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.

China kept Hong Kong going as a experiment to see how a capitalist economy would do compared to their communist one.Also since some people in Hong Kong were either going to leave or perhaps start a popular rebelion and revolt which would pressure England to reconcider handing back Hong Kong concidering that it would cause bloodshed, So mainland China had no choice but to leave the democracy there,But peoples civil liberties can be suspended if China wants to and they even passed a law prohibiting Hong Kongers from critising the Chinese mainland communist goverment the punnishment would be time in jail or even death, Also the mainland goverment has censored the internet in Hong Kong to coincide with the law.

[Great Rumbler]

And on the other hand, mainland China itself is already moving, albeit slowly, towards capitalism.

[Dark Jaguar]

Hey GR, I actually heard that "All under Heaven" is some Chinese expression that actually does have about the same meaning as when we say "Our Land", meaning they aren't actually talking about ALL under Heaven (meaning WORLD DOMINATION).

[OB1]

China kept Hong Kong going as a experiment to see how a capitalist economy would do compared to their communist one.Also since some people in Hong Kong were either going to leave or perhaps start a popular rebelion and revolt which would pressure England to reconcider handing back Hong Kong concidering that it would cause bloodshed, So mainland China had no choice but to leave the democracy there,But peoples civil liberties can be suspended if China wants to and they even passed a law prohibiting Hong Kongers from critising the Chinese mainland communist goverment the punnishment would be time in jail or even death, Also the mainland goverment has censored the internet in Hong Kong to coincide with the law.

Where did you hear that? It's true that China has been doing some sneaky things in Hong Kong which has resulted in massive riot on that island, but I never heard of a law prohibiting Hong Kongers from critisizing the government, since they do it all of the time. And there's no censorship by Mainland China in HK. Any censorship is done by the HK government and was there even when England owned HK.

[OB1]

Hey GR, I actually heard that "All under Heaven" is some Chinese expression that actually does have about the same meaning as when we say "Our Land", meaning they aren't actually talking about ALL under Heaven (meaning WORLD DOMINATION).

It may be roughly the equivalent of "our land", but changing it to that is completely unnecessary. It would be like changing all of the Chinese names in the movie to "Bob" and "Joanne" or something so that we can better relate to the characters.

[OB1]

BTW could someone here please quote my posts in this thread so that DJ can see my replies to her? She still has that post block on.

[A Black Falcon]

"All under heaven"? Probably refers to China... I seem to remember that China thought of itsself as the center of the world -- "Middle Kingdom", anyone? So 'our land' is a translation that most Americans would probably understand better than "all under heaven" which most would probably take to mean the whole world.

Where did you hear that? It's true that China has been doing some sneaky things in Hong Kong which has resulted in massive riot on that island, but I never heard of a law prohibiting Hong Kongers from critisizing the government, since they do it all of the time. And there's no censorship by Mainland China in HK. Any censorship is done by the HK government and was there even when England owned HK.

I'd certainly say that it's more than a bit disingenuous to call it actually democratic, though, for sure! it's not, really... China has control.

[OB1]

Of course they have control, but HK is still a democratic island. It's called HKSAR for a reason, you know. It's not supposed to turn communist until 2046. That's the deadline.

If you need to translate "all under heaven" to something that we say in order for that quote to make sense, you shouldn't even bother watching something as foreign as Hero in the first place. It was changed from "all under heaven" because Miramax thinks little of American audiences. I seriously doubt people would have gone "what the fuck?? How weird!" if they had translated that accurately. :)

[A Black Falcon]

No, they'd have just misinterpreted it...

[OB1]

How? It's very clear what that means. I certainly didn't misinterpret it when I saw the movie two years ago.

[A Black Falcon]

You have a much higher level of knowledge about this than most people who'd be seeing it in theaters, I bet. :)

[Dark Jaguar]

ABF, that's about right. When that dedicated hard core friend of a friend sitting nearby said that to me, I thought it DID mean something totally different and a huge part of the meaning of the movie was changed. The person had to TELL me that all under heaven was just an expression that was a sort of unifying thing. Honestly, I agree that "all under heaven" would confuse a large number of people, myself included, and LEGITIMATLY so at that. In the context it sounds like "taking over the world is an admirable goal".

[A Black Falcon]

China is all that is under heaven because the rest of the world doesn't matter. As in, the Emperor is ruler of all that is under heaven... thinking of your own people or area as the most important isn't exactly a rare idea. Most tribes names for themselves is some variation on "the people", after all. :)

On a similar note, ancient Chinese maps always used south as the top and north as the bottom...

Anyway, I can understand why they did it. But I agree, 'All Under Heaven' is a much more appropriate translation. That is recognizable (if you know) as exactly the kind of thing that the Chinese would say about their Empire, while 'Our Land' is most definitely not. But unless you want another subtitle that explains the subtitle, I don't see a way around changing it, unfortunately.

[Dark Jaguar]

Maybe they could make that point either before or after the movie in a small block of text... That would work just fine, though before the movie would, in a way, spoil some of it. After the movie has it's own problems, essentially because people would be confused about why that line was so important, sorta ruining that first viewing experience. And, let's face it, the FIRST time you see a movie is the time that counts.

[OB1]

ABF, that's about right. When that dedicated hard core friend of a friend sitting nearby said that to me, I thought it DID mean something totally different and a huge part of the meaning of the movie was changed. The person had to TELL me that all under heaven was just an expression that was a sort of unifying thing. Honestly, I agree that "all under heaven" would confuse a large number of people, myself included, and LEGITIMATLY so at that. In the context it sounds like "taking over the world is an admirable goal".

The movie is about the first Emperor of China who was the first to unite all of the different sections into one whole country. China is pretty damn big and at that time "all under heaven" would naturally mean just people in China. It's sort of like how right now we call things "universal" when obviously we're just talking about our little planet.

You have a much higher level of knowledge about this than most people who'd be seeing it in theaters, I bet.

Actually I'm not much of a Chinese history buff and I never heard the saying "all under heaven" before I saw Hero, but in the context of the movie it could only really mean one thing. They even talk about the history behind the picture and what it's all about at the beginning and end of the movie.

[OB1]

Maybe they could make that point either before or after the movie in a small block of text... That would work just fine, though before the movie would, in a way, spoil some of it. After the movie has it's own problems, essentially because people would be confused about why that line was so important, sorta ruining that first viewing experience. And, let's face it, the FIRST time you see a movie is the time that counts.

They did explain that without spoiling the plot in the beginning and ending of the movie.

[A Black Falcon]

The movie is about the first Emperor of China who was the first to unite all of the different sections into one whole country. China is pretty damn big and at that time "all under heaven" would naturally mean just people in China. It's sort of like how right now we call things "universal" when obviously we're just talking about our little planet.

You're just over-estimating people, OB1. DJ proves that. I wouldn't expect most people to know details about ancient Chinese history like how they considered their empire to include 'All Under Heaven', and you probably shouldn't either.

Actually I'm not much of a Chinese history buff and I never heard the saying "all under heaven" before I saw Hero, but in the context of the movie it could only really mean one thing. They even talk about the history behind the picture and what it's all about at the beginning and end of the movie.

But you obviously had some base of knowledge about ancient Chinese history...

[OB1]

You're just over-estimating people, OB1. DJ proves that. I wouldn't expect most people to know details about ancient Chinese history like how they considered their empire to include 'All Under Heaven', and you probably shouldn't either.

Dude, they explain all the history that you need to know at the beginning and ending of the movie!

But you obviously had some base of knowledge about ancient Chinese history...

Not at the time.

Oh and read the other post I made after the one you just quoted. :)

[Dark Jaguar]

Oh I get the history, they actually explained it at the start in a block of text. But the history doesn't help to make that line make sense. It doesn't point out that China uses that expression when referring to their own country. I suppose it could be figured out with everything that happens after those words are revealed, but in the mean time, people are confused, and that means the movie suffers.

Now don't get me wrong, I prefer as true a translation as can be possible. FF4, when brought over as FF2 and simplified beyond belief (which was later released as "easy type" in Japan, yes, they based easy type on what they gave us, NOT the other way around, and Japan's is actually easier still than what we got), got a pretty aweful translation. They actually all but removed the love triangle story about Cecil, Kain, and Rosa. Blame a lot of the translation stuff on NOA there. Also, for some reason when translating a lot of FF games, they changed character names. Terra was originally named Tina. For some reason, I guess Tina was just too "normal" and they needed a more "epic" sounding name. However, if a term of some kind looses it's meaning outside it's original culture, that term needs to either be explained or translated. I'm now thinking explaining it might have been the better route, but so long as people get the meaning, and they do, and the meaning is the same, I say it's fine the way it was done.

[OB1]

I really don't think you would have been confused by it if they had kept that line in the U.S. release. I've shown the movie to dozens of my friends, most of them who like you can't tell apart Hong Kong from Korea, and they all understood what that line meant. The movie is about the first emperor who united all of China, that message was about uniting people "all under heaven" and obviously not the entire earth since Qin did not in fact rule the entire planet at any point in history ( ;) ), so unless you think about it too much you probably won't get confused by it.

Would you mind quoting this, ABF? It's annoying I know, but the only way DJ will see my response. It's pretty difficult trying to have a conversation when one person can't see what the other person is writing.