X-Box Next...

[A Black Falcon]

Digging your grave deeper, ASM...

I also stated only hardcore freaks like DJ will play outdated games till kingdom come unlike many other people .

I think a few people here might disagree with that statement... I won't even begin to say how moronic it is. It would take too long.

You didnt wrestle the fact that I had stated that you can still own the old console to play the old games like you do for the snes.

Yes, but as OB1 said, it's a LOT easier to run them all in the same machine... saves space, time, and they sometimes give you more options (like colorized GB games in a GBC, improving PSX load times or something in PS2, etc...)...

On a related note, http://www.gamespy.com/editorials/february04/xbox2/

[alien space marine]

My arguement was in regards to the xbox not the other two consoles,If you had a choice between the hardrive and backwards capability I would choose the hardrive that was my arguement. Backwards capability is great for what you said sure I understand that , But the hardrive was more important for the xbox. Thats what I meant by all this ,Backwards capability is a nice feature but for me it isnt neccesarry.

[A Black Falcon]

It is a huge added feature... makes more people buy your system and sells more games because there is higher demand for old games. It also encourages people to get the new one because their old games will work on it... a HDD has functions and is great, but I don't know if it has as direct an impact of the average consumer's buying decisions.

[alien space marine]

It did on mine , You dont need to get a expensive memmory card when you got a huge hardrive and the option of downloadable content and music customization is popular with me and my freinds.HDD is a serious invest though could have been better supported it still is a great addition.So no it is a fact to be conciderd.

Backwards capability was good for the ps2 when it first came out , As the psone was still releasing FFIX and Dragonquest VII, But after the Psone dried out nobody cared and even some stores stoped selling old Psone games.After 3-4 years backwards capability loses its pinch.

[A Black Falcon]

But isn't it nice to be able to play your old PSX games without digging out your PlayStation and hoping it works? Same for the Game Boy, isn't it nice to just stick in a cart and know it works, not have to play original GB games on the crummy screen of the original GB?

[alien space marine]

I Soppose it is , But If had to choose between the hardrive or the backwards capability I would choose the hardrive.
I know some have said if the xbox2 doest have a hardrive they may not get it.

But if they had both I wouldnt have a problem with that.

[A Black Falcon]

Its not like its an either/or... HDD rests on Sony, it seems (or if MS grows sanity), while the HDD reasons are quite different.

Good article on why backwards compatibility on X-Box Next will be a big pain.

http://www.1up.com/article2/0,4364,1508826,00.asp

[OB1]

No I didn't... do I need to explain what I meant for the fourth time?

I thought it was clear that "arguement" doesn't just mean two people arguing, but also a point you make... my arguement is that xxx is yyy... look it up in the dictionary...

Oh, and your denials in this thread that its okay to not read the subject just got worse and worse as it went on. Read the thread again and you'll see what I mean.

It wasn't an argument, dumb ass! I was making a joke! Something you are very much oblivious to.

[A Black Falcon]

So your point was a joke. So? And as I said that WASN'T TALKING ABOUT THAT POST IN SPECIFIC! How many times must I say that?

[OB1]

You replied directly to my post, stupid!!

[A Black Falcon]

Erm... no... go back and look. You said that, then I posted the article, then you said 'i won't read it' (even though I posted the whole thing, and then I said that that means you were basing your posts/points/arguements/opinions/whatever you want to call what you were saying on not a whole lot of facts...

[OB1]

This is how it happened:

I wrote this:

Heh, the funny thing about this is that now Sony knows that MS just plans on copying them, so they could make fake announcements up until the PS3 comes out in order to screw up MS. I can see it now: "PS3 to be powered by gerbils", "PS3 to make toast instead of play games".

And then you responded with this:

Read it then come back to me.

Then I said:

But I don't want to...

Then you said:

Then you are incredibly lazy and dumb for making arguements based on nothing!

What argument??!!! You're so, so dumb...

[A Black Falcon]

Me? You still think I meant something I didn't after I clearly explained it five times? Who's stupid now?

ar·gu·ment ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ärgy-mnt)
n.

1.
a. A discussion in which disagreement is expressed; a debate.
b. A quarrel; a dispute.
c. Archaic. A reason or matter for dispute or contention: “sheath'd their swords for lack of argument” (Shakespeare).
2.
a. A course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth or falsehood: presented a careful argument for extraterrestrial life.
b. A fact or statement put forth as proof or evidence; a reason: The current low mortgage rates are an argument for buying a house now.
c. A set of statements in which one follows logically as a conclusion from the others.
3.
a. A summary or short statement of the plot or subject of a literary work.
b. A topic; a subject: “You and love are still my argument” (Shakespeare).
4. Logic. The minor premise in a syllogism.
5. Mathematics.
a. The independent variable of a function.
b. The angle of a complex number measured from the positive horizontal axis.
6. Computer Science. A value used to evaluate a procedure or subroutine.
7. Linguistics. In generative grammar, any of various positions occupied by a noun phrase in a sentence.

Now... let us go over this again. I post a link. People start talking about it. You make a few comments. I ask if you read it because your comment was a bit off. You say you did not. I say you should because you'd then be accurate while you were not. You make a joke. Then I post the article, not in response to the joke (which I never responded to directly because what would be the point? Its a joke...), but in response to your statement that you didn't read it. You say you still won't read it. So I say that you are stupid for not reading it when if you did you would be able to more effectively present your opinion ("arguement"). You go off on some bizarre tangent about my definition of "arguement" and some stupid thing about me replying to the joke with the statement about your points... I don't get you at all, but I think that's because you weren't exactly paying attention to what I was saying. Go back and read it, as I said, your "arguements" (here meaning the conventional meaning) got more and more pitiful...

Would you like me to respond to said joke though? Okay, I will... funny. And it does present a legitimate point... copying Sony might bring them to a place they don't want to be...

[OB1]

I know what you mean by argument, jack ass. But I did not make any sort of argument.

[A Black Falcon]

I really don't see your point... you were saying things about the topic...

[OB1]

Yes, I was agreeing with everybody.

Have I told you that you're an idiot yet?

[A Black Falcon]

We were having a discussion. So you make no sense. And why you're making a big deal about the definition of one word that can reasonably fit in that circumstance makes even less.

[OB1]

I made no argument!!

[A Black Falcon]

You are making an idiotic arguement about nothing, you know. WHY?

2.
a. A course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth or falsehood: presented a careful argument for extraterrestrial life.
b. A fact or statement put forth as proof or evidence; a reason: The current low mortgage rates are an argument for buying a house now.
c. A set of statements in which one follows logically as a conclusion from the others.

Your statements in that half thread fit within this, I think...

[alien space marine]

Gormit the frog shut up!

[Great Rumbler]

What...?

[A Black Falcon]

Yeah, OB1, drop it. It's an irrelevant arguement.

Now discuss that interesting 1-Up article about the problems of MS and backwards compatibility.

http://www.1up.com/article2/0,4364,1508826,00.asp

[Great Rumbler]

Not having backwards compatibility would be a bad thing for the Xbox2, especially if the PS3 and the GC2 have it.

[OB1]

What in the hell are you talking about, ABF? You're such an ass face.

[A Black Falcon]

:troll:

Not having backwards compatibility would be a bad thing for the Xbox2, especially if the PS3 and the GC2 have it.

True, but as that article says there are significant technological hurdles they'd have to overcome... its not exactly easy to go from NVidia and Intel to ATI and IBM without some problems, you know! As that details, the NVidia chip has some propriatary NVidia pixel shaders in it so MS would either have to liscense them from NVidia and include another physical chip to do the emulation, or do it in software and lose some detail because doing it in software could be hard even for one a lot faster like this will be... and also it's a IBM chip so they'd need to run the code on that somehow... the article mentions maybe using the Connectix (Virtual PC?) technology, maybe...

[alien space marine]

I think they will drop the BC.Sure it would help the xbox but for all we know sony may only add two ports yet again.

[A Black Falcon]

Heh, Sony may... it'd be almost as stupid as MS not having backwards compatibility (though this article gives some pretty good reasons why it'll either be gone or not very good (with worse looking graphics)...)... but no one gave them credit for being really smart. :)

[alien space marine]

http://www.gamespy.com/top10/february04/xbox/

Interesting article about why the hardrive must stay!

[A Black Falcon]

PCs have all of that stuff. Well except for #1. :)

That one they have better.

[geoboy]

Ultimately, if Microsoft realizes how important backwards compatibility is, and depending on how much Microsoft wants to be in first place next generation, I believe they'll do (*ahem* spend) whatever it takes. It's not like Microsoft to take the "ah, screw it" approach until they are well in the lead. Meh, who am I kidding? Microsoft has always had that philosophy. At least when it comes to software. :)

[A Black Falcon]

Halfway is good enough!

[Great Rumbler]

Good enough for goverment work!

[A Black Falcon]

Or Microsoft.

[Great Rumbler]

Yeah. :D

[alien space marine]

:mm: :weird: :mmx: :fairy:

[A Black Falcon]

http://www.gamespot.com/all/news/news_6090040.html

A bit more details here, the no HDD looks more likely...

[OB1]

The HDD is the best thing about the X-Box. What idiots.

[A Black Falcon]

That article talks about some deal with a company who makes larger removable media things of some kind... I guess they're looking into much bigger memory cards?

[OB1]

IDIOTS!

[Dark Jaguar]

XBox has two great things going for it. That hard drive, and the built in ethernet. Neither of them are add-ons, which is of PARAMOUNT importance!

Nintendo: I can vouch for that!

Since the online adapter is built in from the get-go, everyone who has an XBox already has the tools they need to get online (save a working broadband connection). They don't have to worry about getting people to buy the online adapter for the system because it's already there. Same with the HD.

Still, if they manage to find a memory card that can store gigs of memory (oh, right they have those) and um, make them AFFORDABLE, I'd be all for using those instead of a hard drive simply due to the speed difference.

[OB1]

HDDs are still cheaper than memory cards, but the main difference is that you have to pay extra for memory cards. :S

[geoboy]

Memory cards are actually slower than hard drives, Dark Jaguar. I don't know by how much, but I know they're definitely slower. :D Especially now with the new 10,000 RPM serial ATA hard drives.

[Dark Jaguar]

Hmm, I was thinking cart speeds, but I suppose it's true enough that memory cards are surprisingly slow compaired to that. I guess there's reason enough for it..., for now...

[alien space marine]

Why dont they just get a cheaper hardrive? Much rather have no name brand toilet papper then no toilet papper.

[geoboy]

Hard drives will always be expensive to make and will never become cheap unless the manufacturer cuts corners, and when it comes to hard drives cutting corners can be a very bad thing. Using lower capacity hard drives wouldn't be a much cheaper option either because there really isn't a demand for smaller capacity drives so manufacturers don't produce as many of them or manufacturers have stopped producing them entirely.

[Dark Jaguar]

Well there are alternatives. I mean, we aren't researching, and succeeding, in making nanotechnology for nothing. I mean, they finally managed to create an engine and energy supply for nanomachines. It's basically one of those energy molecule makers in the cell but with an iron bar strapped onto the molecule, creating a spinning motion. It's actually almost hilariously simple when you think about it, but this engine is more efficient than any other engine ever made, by several times. Nano age, here we come!

[A Black Falcon]

Sigh... stupid people not clicking the link... DJ and I thought you said you did! You clearly didn't here.

Next Xbox to skip hard drive?


Microsoft's flash memory deal fuels rumors that the console will be hard drive-free.

Flash memory maker M-Systems announced on Wednesday that it has signed a contract to provide storage products for future versions of the Xbox, bolstering speculation that Microsoft may ditch the game console's hard drive.

M-Systems, best known for its DiskOnKey line of flash drives, which attach to a PC's Universal Serial Bus port, said in a statement that it has signed an agreement with Microsoft to develop "customized memory units for future Xbox products and services."

Ronit Maor, chief financial officer at Israel-based M-Systems, said the company could not discuss details of the contract. But Maor said the devices under development would be of significantly higher capacity than the 8MB Xbox memory units Microsoft currently sells to save game and user data. "What we're going to offer for the Xbox doesn't currently exist," Maor said.

The M-Systems announcement comes shortly after Microsoft revealed plans for expanding Xbox Live, the online game service it runs, to include limited online storage capabilities. The combination has bolstered speculation that Microsoft will drop the hard drive from the next version of the Xbox to cut production costs for the money-losing console.

Microsoft representatives declined to comment on the company's plan for next-generation Xbox hardware.

Jay Srivatsa, a senior analyst at research firm iSuppli, said the Xbox hard drive so far has been used mainly for ancillary functions like saving progress in a game, not to improve the way games work. Sacrificing the hard drive could be a relatively painless way to trim $10 or $20 per unit from production costs. "I can see why they'd attempt to do that--the hard disk usage on the current Xbox has been pretty minimal," he said. "At some point, this has got to be a profitable business for Microsoft. They have to draw some lines; look at what can they take out."

The current Xbox will gain another storage option late this year, when Microsoft releases an "extender kit" for attaching the console to a PC running Windows XP Media Center, noted P.J. McNealy, an analyst at American Technology Research. That and expanded online features could obviate the need for a hard drive, he said.

"If the network is robust enough to handle some of the processing, and you have a fast-enough connection, you can push some of the functionality of the hard drive back onto the network," McNealy said.

Richard Doherty, president of research firm The Envisioneering Group, said adding recording functionality to the Xbox's DVD drive would be a cheaper way to provide storage than a hard drive and would rob hackers of one of their primary tools for making the Xbox perform unauthorized tricks. "The hard drive became a liability in relation to those units that were hacked," Doherty said.

By David Becker, News.com [POSTED: 02/25/04 02:01 PM]

[Dark Jaguar]

Are you aware that link is dated AFTER you posted the first link? I was only talking about that. Just point out this stuff, don't have an attitude about it. We don't have time to read every little page you list, and while I certainly will read the links with no complaint, I just skim them if it's long and EXPECT to be corrected if I misunderstood something, but not in a rude fasion.

Anyway, here's something interesting. Seems someone reported the next XBox will not have a hard drive and will only use these special cards. Then, someone higher up said that guy was talking out of his arse pretty much. However, being a sensationalistic news source, they tried to give it artificial validity without actually lying by saying the old line "If this is true then". I HATE it when the news does that in the face of whatever thing they are saying the if line about being shown to just not be the case! IF it was true that the world is made of fire we'd all be dead right now, but it's NOT true!

Anyway, your thoughts?

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/news/news_6090737.html

[alien space marine]

Well I am not getting a inferior System as I dont see why I would want to go from having a hardrive too having nothing again. I think MS just needs to get more games to support it.

[A Black Falcon]

Are you aware that link is dated AFTER you posted the first link? I was only talking about that. Just point out this stuff, don't have an attitude about it. We don't have time to read every little page you list, and while I certainly will read the links with no complaint, I just skim them if it's long and EXPECT to be corrected if I misunderstood something, but not in a rude fasion.

They change the date when they alter the story in some fashion, which is what I assume is what happened here...

As for that news, it really just follows on the first one. Still, it's an interesting story... no HDD and no backwards compatibility? That's a dangerous (and stupid) course for MS when Sony will have backwards compatibility and it looks relatively likely that Nintendo will have it as well... I understand why -- the backwards compatibility because of the massive architecture changes that would make it hard, the HDD to save money... but still. The consumers don't see those things and they will see it as stupid. I think this could really hurt Microsoft... especially if either Sony or Nintendo (however doubtful that one is) include a HDD in their next console.