Dumpster

[A Black Falcon]

Uh, that was supposed to be a joke... as in, what GR said -- if you know about it it's just a free extra but if you don't its a bonus -- because that sounds kind of like what OB1's arguement here is -- because he knew about it it wasn't a bonus... but if someone didn't know about it for them it would be...

[A Black Falcon]

But ... but ...

Okay, that confirms what I thought -- you have not been reading my posts and are just reacting to the first line. Try actually reading my posts about this in this thread before continuing. Why do I know this?

Simple. Because only one line in my previous post talked about what you're ranting about here.

[OB1]

I read your posts, and I stand by my Hawking/Einstein statement.

[OB1]

You're a dork.

[Great Rumbler]

OB1...I think we'll have to go ahead with our plan sooner than expected.

[OB1]

Yeah, I'm already packing for the trip.

[Great Rumbler]

I'll bring the sporks...What?! Sporks are cool!

[OB1]

I know!


....

[A Black Falcon]

You're just upset that you missed my joke...

[A Black Falcon]

If you really read my posts then why did your response only respond to the first (and I might add that that line should not have been taken in complete seriousness, since it wasn't) line of it?

[Great Rumbler]

Such humor...was not in that post.

[A Black Falcon]

It's "sarcasm"...

[Great Rumbler]

No...that's something else.

[OB1]

Your points are so completely asinine that it's difficult to come up with the words to express my shock over how dumb it sounds. Text describing a picture is the same as a picture? And then you go on and make points about things that I never said anything about. Yes, CYOA is a book with branching storylines, or an "adventure book" if you want to call it that. But a video game if you read on a computer screen? NO! This is exactly how this whole conversation happened:


Me: You need to manipulate images on a screen in order for it to be a video game.

You: Are you denying that CYOA books are adventure games in book form?

Me:

You: Now you're saying that text cannot describe pictures? Are you nuts?

Me:


Seriously, how does one respond to such insanity?

[OB1]

Something from beyond this world, no doubt.

[Great Rumbler]

From the Planet Lame in the Not-Funny-At-All Galaxy.

[A Black Falcon]

I was just pointing out how OB1's arguement didn't make sense...

[A Black Falcon]

Your points are so completely asinine that it's difficult to come up with the words to express my shock over how dumb it sounds. Text describing a picture is the same as a picture? And then you go on and make points about things that I never said anything about. Yes, CYOA is a book with branching storylines, or an "adventure book" if you want to call it that. But a video game if you read on a computer screen? NO! This is exactly how this whole conversation happened:

I've repeated the same things five hundred times in this arguement, and you still just fundamentally don't seem to understand what I am trying to say... argh... maybe it'd be easier in chat, if you were ever on...

Look, I didn't say that text is identical to a picture. I very clearly explained how it was not, actually... but I said that while it's clearly a bigger jump than from 2d to 3d it's not so huge that it should not be considered a form of displaying games as you seem to be suggesting by saying that it's a totally different category.

And as for CYOA... I have explained this TEN TIMES including twice in this thread I don't think that CYOA as a BOOK is a computer game, obviously! I said that if CYOA was made into a GAME it'd be an adventure game. As in, if it was in the style of a text-based adventure game -- each 'page' would be displayed on the screen, then you'd type in your choice of response, then you'd get the next one, etc... in some of those books you'd have to deal with other kinds of puzzles or inventory (I have several CYOA-style books where you have items you had to choose where to use) too. THAT would be a CYOA adventure game. That is what I mean by 'a PDF wouldn't be a game'. Does this explain it better?

There have been rudimentary adventure games made like this, actually... we have one where the whole game is just choosing dialog options (though it's a graphical game with speech and everything, the only innteractivity is choosing what you say/do, just like a CYOA book) and seeing where the story goes (for children obviously, but so are most CYOA books...). Same thing, and it's definitely an adventure game.

[Great Rumbler]

So, we were supposed to gather from your post, with nothing to lead us to this conclusion, that were actually making fun of OB1 by using a nonsensical arguement and posting nothing else? What?*

*Yes, I am giving you a hard time.

[Great Rumbler]

Text game: Game that uses only text.

Videogame: Game that uses images and text.

Computer game: videogames, text games.

[A Black Falcon]

Yes, yes you were. ... What? When you explain humor it isn't funny...

I mean, OB1 knew about it so he bought those two games and just considered it a free thing. But for someone who didn't know about it it'd be thought of quite differently...

[A Black Falcon]

Semantics... sure, by some definitions video games mean they need images. But what if someone made a console game that had no images, just text? Would it not be a videogame even thought it's on a videogame console?

And anyway, 'videogame' isn't really a technical term. I mean, "video game consoles" are just computers by another name... all games are computer games. :)

I just think that while there is a point to your position it's pretty technical... just like how my position would be if I tried to argue that letters are images, I think...

[OB1]

It's much more important than just semantics. It's the way we differentiate video games from books, movies from playing cards, and cheese wiz from sausages. I'm sure that with your bizarro logic you could argue that cheese wiz is in fact a type of sausage, but no matter what you say it is definitely not sausage.

And who the hell is talking about CYOA books? I was talking about e-books! You never pay attention, boy! And saying that non-video games are as far apart from actual video games as 2D video games are from 3D video games is the dumbest thing I've heard from you in... well, not very long acually, but... well it's just plain stupid! It's like saying that hotdogs are as different from motorcycles as bikes are.

[OB1]

The free Zelda disc in no way whatsoever affected my decision to buy M&L and MK DD.

[A Black Falcon]

Gamespot often has quality awards... I certainly don't always agree with them but I can generally see why they'd choose the games they do. It doesn't always seem that way with IGN...

Like in '98 they said Grim Fandango was GOTY. Now of course I'd give it to Starcraft, but GF is a brilliant game and certainly better than most everyone else's choice, which was Half-Life...

And who the hell is talking about CYOA books? I was talking about e-books! You never pay attention, boy! And saying that non-video games are as far apart from actual video games as 2D video games are from 3D video games is the dumbest thing I've heard from you in... well, not very long acually, but... well it's just plain stupid! It's like saying that hotdogs are as different from motorcycles as bikes are.

As far as I can tell that's the first time E-Books have been mentioned in this thread, so I really don't know what you are talking about... and if you honestly think that text-based games are as far from 2d games are hotdogs are from motorcycles, then I have nothing to say because you are clearly severely delusional. But I don't know because I can't really figure out your arguement, a fact not helped along by the fact you spend pages yelling at me for every sentence you spend actually explaining what your position is...

How about this. Zork vs. King's Quest I vs. Secret of Monkey Island vs. Curse of Monkey Island vs. Grim Fandango. All are adventure games. One is text-based, two are 2d, and one is 3d. The first one is controlled just with a parser. The second uses the keyboard/mouse for movement as well as a parser. The third has verbs on screen you choose to interact with things in the environment. The fourth has a streamlined three-icon system with just talk, take, and look. The last has a similar number of actions but is 3d (though with prerendered backdrops and set camera angles) and you directly control the character with a gamepad. Now, the graphics, controls, complexity of controls, etc. are very different between each of these games, that is incontestible. But is what you do in Zork different much at all from King's Quest of Monkey Island? No, of course not! Those games all play similarly. Now yes, there is a bigger jump from text to 2d than there is from 2d to 3d, that is true. But as that list of games shows the jump wasn't that huge in gameplay terms, which is obviously what really matters... sure, in King's Quest you are looking at a screen. But I bet the game could be done almost as well if it was just text, and wouldn't have to be changed much at all... it's facts like this that show how delusional your opinion that text-based games are so dramatically different from graphical ones is.

Now... I'm NOT talking about the definiton of video games here. I am talking exclusively about computer games. I don't really care about the definition of videogames... as I said, it's just semantics.

And saying that non-video games are as far apart from actual video games as 2D video games are from 3D video games

Well okay maybe not equal distances apart but as I show above it's not very different. And anyway what gives you the idea that I'm talking about videogames here? As I said, I don't care about the definiton of videogames, whichever way it is, and am just talking about text vs. 2d and 3d, not anything about the definition of videogames which is irrelevant to this discussion.

[OB1]

Here's how it is, ABF. Pay attention for once.

In order for something to be a video game you have to be manipulating images on some kind of a screen. Otherwise it cannot be classified as a video game. Text-based game involve [b]zero[/i] image manipulation. So what does that mean? Come on, you can do it! Give me the right answer!


And you have a really poor memory if you don't remember the whole e-book thing.

[A Black Falcon]

Right, I remember it now... E-Books are not games because they are not interactive, obviously... and no, the page control buttons in Acrobat Reader don't count. :)

In order for something to be a video game you have to be manipulating images on some kind of a screen. Otherwise it cannot be classified as a video game. Text-based game involve [b]zero[/i] image manipulation. So what does that mean? Come on, you can do it! Give me the right answer!

I still don't see why I should care if by your technical definition Zork is a "computer game" or "video game"...

Oh, I have a question. Why do you insist on bringing this up again and again and again when I have said that it doesn't matter much to what I am trying to talk about? It's pretty frusterating to write long posts and have you yell at me for something that I have explained ten times in this post I don't think really matters in the current debate!

[OB1]

Because you're so damned thick-headed that you won't even look at the facts! Your studity is extremely annoying.

[A Black Falcon]

Yes, I know... you DO realize that you're just proving my point for me, right?

[A Black Falcon]

But you are only talking about one fact, one that I have pretty much admitted is true by the strict dictionary definition, and not any of the issues that I am trying to talk about... it's really annoying!

[OB1]

[OB1]

One fact that's more important than anything else in this so-called debate. It's like saying to Gallileo "well okay, the sun may be the center of our solar system but it doesn't prove that earth isn't the center of the universe!". :bang:

[Dark Jaguar]

I didn't know Mario & Luigi had two characters that were like the bean kingdom's Mario & Luigi, and I didn't buy the game because of that, so does that make THAT a free bonus? That it was physically connected to the device is irrelevent.

[A Black Falcon]

How, exactly, does the question of whether games without graphics are videogames have anything at all to do with whether Zork and King's Quest are in the same genre? I sure can't see a significant connection there...

[A Black Falcon]

Yes, I'd call that a free bonus DJ...

And OB1, why a ? That seems to be your standard reply when you can't think of anything to say that makes any sense... and if you mean 'huh? how could that thing you said make any sense?' it's quite strange because I have explained quite nicely how that exact position of yours doesn't exactly make sense...

I mean, yes, for you it was free. But what about most people? What if they want some other game but really want this one? For them it sure isn't free! So this is a bonus... a free bonus with these games, kinda, but for most people it is not free because it greatly restricts their purchases. Oh, sure, it's still free monitarially but it restricts what you can buy so it certainly isn't free in every sense of the word.

[OB1]

I use a with you people because you rarely ever make any sense. Just look at DJ here. Basically she's saying that absolutely nothing in life is free because you always have to do something in order to get anything. And while that's kind of true, it's a stupid thing to say.

Just today I helped a friend and his parents paint their house because well, I thought it would be a fun thing to do and it's a holiday so I can't go to work. When we were done for the day and I was on my way out the door, my friend's dad gave me $25 which I reluctantly accepted since as I told him it was my pleasure and I didn't expect a reward. So yes, if I hadn't gone there and helped them then I wouldn't have the extra $25, but I would have done it anyhow and it was unexpected. Same goes for me buying M&L and DD and getting Zelda for free. I planned on getting them long before this Zelda deal was announced, so it was just a nice freebie.

So, in summation, DJ is a dork. :shakeit:

[A Black Falcon]

DJ's absolutely right, and my posts were saying something very similar. It makes sense!

[OB1]

So you agree with DJ that absolutely nothing in life is free.

[A Black Falcon]

Well yeah, nothing is truly free...

[Dark Jaguar]

While I do agree with that, this isn't even going to that extreme.

Oh well, a Merry Christmas to all and to all shut the 7 maids a milkin' up.

[OB1]

Yes it is. If you're saying that the Zelda disc isn't free then you have to say that absolutely nothing is ever free. Not one single thing.

[Dark Jaguar]

Alls I know is if Nintendo suddenly refused to give me the disk had I ordered it, I'd be able to sue them.

[OB1]

That's not saying much. You can sue people for just about anything nowadays.

[Dark Jaguar]

But that's an actual suit, because I OWN it but they refuse to fork it over.

[OB1]

A surfer once sued another surfer for allegedly stealing his wave.

[OB1]

Is Pong in the same genre as Tennis?

[Great Rumbler]

One time I sued OB1 becuase he used the contents of one of my posts without my permission.

[OB1]

It's true. Thankfully the suit was thrown out, though.

[Great Rumbler]

Only because I tried to bribe the judge right there in front of everybody!

[OB1]

He was a crooked judge so if you had done it out of court it probably would have worked.

*tsk tsk* I thought I taught you better, bubba.