Zelda news!

[OB1]

From Games Are Fun:

In an interview with Eiji Aonuma, director of The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, Mr. Aonuma hinted at possible details of the next installment in the series.

The graphics engine used in Wind Waker will be utilized for this next title as well, much in the same way that Majora's Mask used the same engine as Ocarina of Time. So fans looking for an adult Link will have to stick to Soul Calibur II or Super Smash Bros. Melee for now, sorry.

The boat may or may not return as a mode of transportation in the next title, as the playfield has not been determined yet. The water in Wind Waker made the boat a natural choice, but for the new title, perhaps the boat will return, perhaps not.

Aonuma hopes to have a playable version of this new title ready for next year's E3. Not much else is known as of yet, but as details surface, we will bring them to you. Stay tuned.

Source: Computer and Videogames

Posted by pizzicato on 5.24.2003

Awesome.

[A Black Falcon]

Cool. I'd rather see a realistic style, though... :(

[OB1]

Then you'd probably have to wait around three years for one.

[Dark Jaguar]

Just because it's using the same engine doesn't mean Link won't be an adult in the new one. I suspect he will myself, since that's the standard way of Zelda games, with only OOT and MM breaking the cycle (well, reversing it). I say let them take as much time as they want on this new game. I won't get mad if it's delayed myself. Wind Waker is indeed a VERY great game (though in the end, I think I still like OOT best of all the 3D Zelda games), but making this next one longer than the last is certainly nothing I'd be against.

[A Black Falcon]

Having a older Link would be nice... but still no replacement for a more realistic style. Oh well... it'll still be good...

[OB1]

you ---> :cry:


:ass:

[A Black Falcon]

Oh how nice of you... its really annoying that they aren't making this game realistic! I was hoping those rumors would be true... :(

[big guy]

i actually don't terribly mind the adult link model from Wind Waker...the one that is the statue in hyrule castle. if they made link look like that i might be more for it. or if they kept the cel-shading and made the character designs more to my liking, i'd be satisfied. i just don't want to see young wind waker link ever again.

i also hope they tweak the the engine so that the other characters looks as well cel-shaded as link did...instead of looking like cheaply rendered 3d models.

[Nintendarse]

Hmmm...very interesting. Aonuma back at the helm. Taking the toon-shading as a given, there are a few things I'd like to see in the next Zelda:

1. Make it as different from Wind Waker as Majora's mask was from Ocarina of Time.

2. Reduce/eliminate/smooth the distance blur, except in cutscenes. The effect, while technically impressive, looked bad on my television when the thing I was focusing on (the big island in the distance) was not what the effect put into focus (Link's boat).

3. Get rid of dithering. It made te fog skip every other horizonal line of pixels on my television. This had the opposite effect of fog--to set the mood. Instead, I was like, "I wonder what those wierd lines are on my television."

4. While there is inherent fun in sailing, that fun was used up in the first 60 minutes of sailing. It was too much of a good thing, to the point that I was stuffed and Wind Waker was still spoon-feeding me banana cream pie. Be mindful of tediousness.

5. Rethink the items. By including completely new items, people that are new to the series will be on even footing with old fans. I believe at one point, Miyamoto asserted the opposite, which doesn't make sense to me. How does including the hookshot, which only fans know the use for, put newbies on even ground with fans?

6. Rethink the philosophy behind Heart Containers. As a result of the Heart containers, the person that is the most diligent, has the most skill, and has been playing Zelda for the longest will have the EASIEST play experience. The beginner will, conversely, have the most difficult play experience. This goes against Miyamoto's philosophy. While some kind of reward is necessary for completing side quests, this extra effort should not reward the player by making the main quest EASIER.

7. Rethink controls. This is more specific to Wind Waker. Why was the sail an XYZ button? It's used so frequently that it should be part of a context-sensitive button. In addition, changing the direction of the wind was required so frequently that setting the waker to XYZ, pulling it out, playing the song, and selecting the direction is too much of a process for how frequent it is done. Imagine if, in SMS, every time you wanted to change your nozzle (from hover to rocket to propel), you had to go to the Delfino lobby. That would be frustrating. Wind changing is almost as tedious as this hypothetical. So what should the controls have been?

A-context sensitive
B-sword
R-context sensitive (including opening and closing the sail when at sea)
XYZ-less-frequent items
L-target
Analog stick-movement

C-up direct wind North
C-up+right direct wind Northeast
C-right direct wind East
C-down+right direct wind Southeast
C-down direct wind South
C-down+left direct wind Southwest
C-left direct wind West
C-up+left direct wind Northwest

The biggest change is the C-stick. Instead of moving the camera, the C-stick automatically changes the direction of the wind. When the C-stick is pushed, the camera swings to an overhead perspective with North at the top of the screen, South at the bottom, East at the right, and West at the left. From this perspective, it is easy to choose the proper direction of the wind. These changes in wind direction are simultaneously "notes" that are "played" by the Wind Waker. When you direct the wind in the proper order, you play a song (much like the Ocarina in Oot). For example, let's say you press C-right, C-left, C-down. You have conducted the song that moves forward a half day. It's simple things like this that would make Wind Waker less tedious. Because of this, the puzzle designers could encorporate more puzzles that require you to change the direction of the wind (in a quick manner).

[A Black Falcon]

Whaat? Change the items? Change heart containers? Uhh... NO! Bad ideas! Items for sure! The Zelda items are a big part of the series... I was really angry at Capcom for leaving the Bow out of the Oracles games...

As for heart pieces, you have a point, sorta, but I think there are better ways to deal with it than drastically changing heart pieces...

Oh, those control changes would be interesting... but how do you move the camera while on the boat? You should be able to! Though I do wish that Nintendo hadn't put in a user-movable camera and stuck with the camera from OoT/MM, since I find camera moving so annoying in 3d games, they put one in... so it should stay in the game.

[OB1]

Hmmm...very interesting. Aonuma back at the helm.

You do know that he directed WW, right?

[OB1]

I think ABF wants a realistic Link just for this:



Camel-toe Link!

[Nintendarse]

Yes, In fact I was surprised that he is still doing Zelda. I mean, te man's been working on Zelda games for nearly 5 years. In the back of mind, I'm thinking, "I guess Aonuma's being formed to become next 'Miyamoto' so that the Zelda series can properly continue when Miyamoto inevitably retires."

ABF, don't freak out. I wouldn't touch the bow and arrow. It's not one the items where fans of the series would have an unfair advantage over non-fans. I mean, everyone knows what a bow and arrow are. Everyone knows what a boomerang is. I'm talking about non-intuitive stuff like the hookshot. Fans of the series know the kind of puzzle they'll get with the hookshot. Non-fans will be stumbling with the simple function of the device. Another example: the deku leaf. People that have played WW will know the kinds of things they can do with it, while new players might struggle if the new Zelda assumes that you know how to use the deku leaf.

There are ways to "reinvent" familiar items, and that's what I'd like to see with the Bow&Arrow, boomerang, hammer, etc. WW reinvented the boomerang with the targeting function. While there is a slight advantage to the fan, every player must get acquanted with the uses of the multi-target.

A lesser reinvention is that of the heavy boots. If you've played through the shadow temple of Oot, you know that the heavy boots are useful in counteracting strong winds. In the wind puzzles of WW, there is a marked disadvantage to the beginner. The springs, however, were a good addition.

[A Black Falcon]

Ah, so we must simplify just for the sake of simplification? What's wrong with weapons that aren't immidiately obviously useful for a specific purpose? Why must it be simpler? I don't see any reason for that...

And the Deku Leaf was new in that game! New! What are you complaining about THERE?

[Nintendarse]

I finally realize what it's like to be OB1 trying to convince ABF. Fortunately, this is just a misunderstanding.

Simplification simply for the sake of simplifcation? No! I'm saying that it's good to have convoluted, non-real-world stuff, just make it non-real-world stuff that Zelda fans haven't seen yet. That way, Zelda fans don't have an unfair advantage over a beginner, who knows nothing about a hookshot. Put a Wackdoodle in the game, or a thingamabob, or a gobbledegack (insert other nonsense names) in the next game. That way, the Zelda fans aren't going to have it much easier than the beginners. Everyone's going to struggle to figure out the different uses of it.

I was saying that FOR THE NEXT ZELDA, Aonuma and co. should replace the Deku Leaf or reinvent it somehow.

[A Black Falcon]

New items just for the sake of new items? New items just so people experienced at the series aren't familiar with them? I just don't see why that would be good... the nostalgia and continuity of the items is part of the series! Change that much and it'd hurt the series, IMO... I don't want a replacement for the hookshot! I want the hookshot! I fail to see why knowing the items is a bad thing...

And its a single player game so as long as newbies to the series can understand what's going on who cares about advantage? Of course your first experience in a series will be a lot harder than it is when you keep playing...

Oh, and Zelda fans wouldn't appreciate having a Wackdoodle in the game, thingamabob, or gobbledegack... they want the Hookshot, Roc's Feather, and Mirror Shield... :)

[Dark Jaguar]

Nintendarse, I agree. I loved LTTP because of how many items were put in there I had never seen before (and yet they kept the boomerang and bow, the non-ditchable items all Zelda games should have, though Zelda 2 lacked both and the Oracle games lacked one). It's not the main thing mind you, but it was cool to get something like the "hookshot", play around with it, and find yourself being hauled across a room. OOT was the same way with all it's cool new things like the boots and playing the ocarina instead of just using it. WW did recycle many items it seems, but they also added some, like what you mentioned, the deku leaf. It would be cool to see the next one have more unique items no one's seen yet.

Oh, as far as heart containers go, they have been a mainstay in every single Zelda game ever. Exploration has always been rewarded primarily with strength. New players tend to get lost and accidently go on mini-quests instead of main quests. Most people I see playing Zelda tend to have a very decent number of hearts by the end of the game without too much purposefull exploring. I mean, if health went up some other way, like experience, it would kinda ruin it for me. Now don't get me wrong, I don't really have that much of a problem with levelling up. However, I always MUCH prefer the idea of going on various quests and challenges to gain my strength to the somewhat redundant and even occasionally dull prospect of fighting over and over and over.

Rather, an idea for making things harder AND levelling the playing field would be total removal of those blasted hints, and it's not just the verbal ones either. The hookshot in WW REALLY killed the mystery of using a hookshot, which is finding out for yourself what things the hookshot can stick to, or wondering "hmm, is that the solution?". Instead, in WW we get the stupid target icon pretty much YELLING at you "THIS IS THE SOLUTION TO THE PUZZLE! STOP THINKING!". I KNOW it would have taken me much longer to figure out those wall masks could be yanked down if it wasn't for that icon shouting the answer to me as I scrolled by trying to hookshot to some other place. (Though, in all fairness, the idea of using the hookshot to pull something TO you to solve a puzzle WAS a very great puzzle. I just wish they didn't make it so obvious with the target thing.)

By including various new types of puzzles, using new types of items, and removing all the standard hint giving things (it wasn't TOO bad I guess with the fairies, but the various glaring signs in WW were just plain bad for puzzling). In fact, to let people have a challenge when they want one and hints when they want those, why not make it so the hints are things you have to actually seek out? Now Prime had one solution that worked out well (though I wish it was off by default as I have said, and LL probably thinks too), and Link's Awakening ALSO had a nice hint system (you had to solve OTHER puzzles to get your hints from stones). However, the best I've seen is in a game that really sucks but did the hint system right. Phantasmagoria (really cheesy game, cheesy story, cheesy puzzles, and for what's supposed to be a scary game you can't even die until the last chapter) used a "hint keeper". I think something like that should go into future Zelda games. Instead of something like a stone vibrating and annoying you into hearing the hint lest you go insane, it sits in the background, in the menu screen actually, never once telling you it HAS a hint, but it ALWAYS does and all you have to do is activate the hint keeper from the menu to get your hint. It's totally out of the way and you can even forget it's there, but it is for those who need help. That is likely the best solution. Amazing that such an otherwise terrible game would end up having such a great solution for levelling the playing field as far as puzzles go without totally spoiling puzzles for those who want NO hints (like my whole family when it comes to puzzles in games).

[A Black Falcon]

New items are fine! Great! Just not at the expense of classics... and changing current items? Go ahead, as long as its a change for the better... and isn't too drastic.

I agree about heart containers... they should keep them the way it is. Its nice getting a REAL reward for doing sidequests... since a monetary one would be irrelevant -- its so easy to get money in Zeld games... and there isn't much else I can think of that would be good... so they should stay that way. And anyway once newbies figure out how to get heartpieces they could always wander around to find more if they want more health... its not that hard...

As for hints, I agree that too much or too obvious a hint system is bad. It should either be unobtrusive and minor, or an option. Metroid had a very, very small hint system... all it did was tell you where to go next... but it still was an option. Link's Awakening had a nice one too... you had to do something to get the hints, and they weren't huge. Just for one puzzle per dungeon. Of course that did mean that you'd get stuck at lots of puzzles with no hints, but oh well... that's a big part of the fun of the game! That's why the hint system in LADX dissapointed me... so many hints! It dumbs down the difficulty level unnecessarially...

Oh, and since when does being able to die make a game scary? You can die in every Sierra adventure game I've played... but all it did to me was annoyed me that they'd use such an irritating solution to a problem... I like Lucasarts' no-die system better!

[Darunia]

Awesome...another Zelda, and just a year later too. I just hope they won't put Moblins in every fucking dungeon again...man was that lame.

*Braces for counter strike from die-hard Zelda nationalists*

[OB1]

Oh Lordy, are you stupid. There isn't a single Zelda game that doesn't use some of the same enemies in every dungeon.

[A Black Falcon]

True... Darunia, LOTS of games use some enemies a lot... do you hate it in most games when they send lots of similar enemies at you? Man you must hate a lot of games...

[Nintendarse]

I see I have come up against a lot of resistance. Oh well. I guess I'll try to explain more...

Heart Containers and Experience points: they make sense usually. By completing a task, or defeating an enemy, you get stronger. Yet, by the end of the game, the person that has tried the hardest is treated with the EASIEST game experience. That doesn't make sense to me. Instead, I'd like to see this person be treated to the MOST FULFILLING game experience.

The game that has most nearly done this is Majora's Mask. Those that had tried to help Anju and Kafei from the beginning were mocked by wall after wall as to how much they could help the star-crossed lovers. Yet, the player that takes the time to fulfill this sidequest is treated to one of the most fulfilling moments in the game. The fact that this sidequest leads to a heart piece pales in comparison with the significance of the moment. However, the rules of Zelda dictate that for such an accomplishment, the player deserves a heart piece. What if, instead of a heart piece, the player gets a cutscene that ties the sidequest to the main quest in a significant way? For example, by completing the invisible solder's sidequest, the player would be treated to a cutscene (archived in the Bomber's notebook) that depicts the soldier throwing the imp out of clocktown and shouting at him while the imp sheepishly walks away in the rain. In addition, when Link goes to fight the imp at the top of the clock tower, the knight would appear, urging the imp to stop, appologizing for what he had done. Wouldn't that be more fulfilling than a heart piece?

[EdenMaster]

Originally posted by A Black Falcon
True... Darunia, LOTS of games use some enemies a lot... do you hate it in most games when they send lots of similar enemies at you? Man you must hate a lot of games...

You telling Darunia not to be upset because he's stubborn about a certain aspect of a game. Sounds famliar. I'm still shocked that after enjoying WW, you're still so adamant about the cel-shaded Link. He's probably not going to have a realistic look for another game or two, deal with it.

[Darunia]

*Braces for counter strike from die-hard Zelda nationalists*

Good thing I braced for that. Perhaps you don't grasp my concept. In DOOM and WOLFENSTEIN 3D, when they only have 4 or at most 15 enemies, using the same ones 50,000 times in a level is neccessary. In WW, though it's not necessary and they do it anyway.

*Walk down a hallway, kill 10 moblins. Go up a ladder, four more moblins; smash a pot, find another one. Turn left, through the door... only three moblins in here. Fight the boss, then kill 12 more moblins, and exit temple.*

I don't care what you say, in no modern Zelda game have they so tactlessly done that. Using those little bats a lot in OoT is different; they're just little bats...but using big, identical moblins so goddamn often was just tasteless.

[OB1]

The fighting in WW was so much damn fun. You sir, are what we like to call "teh crezzay!".

[Darunia]

You know I'm right.:p

[EdenMaster]

No, you're not right, you just prefer variety in your game. It's not right or wrong, it's just your preference, but you have to admit, repetitive enemies certainly don't skew the fact that Wind Waker is an incredible game.

[Great Rumbler]

Another cel-shaded Zelda, eh? Sounds like fun!

I wonder if they'll go for an older Link this time.

[Darunia]

You act like variety is some weird flavor on pizza; it's not that I like variety that makes me an outsider, its that YOU all like repetitiveness. Other than that, and the terrible dungeons and lackluster, disheartening ending, yes it was a good game...a very good one; fun, and the islands were nice. I loved Windfall Island; they packed so much town onto such a small rock...and much of the music was good, too.

[OB1]

[EdenMaster]

Originally posted by Darunia
You act like variety is some weird flavor on pizza; it's not that I like variety that makes me an outsider, its that YOU all like repetitiveness. Other than that, and the terrible dungeons and lackluster, disheartening ending, yes it was a good game...a very good one; fun, and the islands were nice. I loved Windfall Island; they packed so much town onto such a small rock...and much of the music was good, too.

I don't like repetitiveness, per se, but I don't hate it either. I tolerate it, and compare it to the game as a whole, and when you look at it that way, it's not all that bad.

Adding onto my last post, your opinion isn't wrong, but making such a big deal of it is, and it makes you look like an idiot.

[Sacred Jellybean]

I, for one, agree with Darunia. Having variety is always better. That's why I'm aiming to be a hardcore polygamist by the time I'm 40. I mean, seriously... who wants to be with the same person all the time? And these won't only be females... I'm including men, children, dogs, cats, the occasional zebra, and an orgy of paramecia to my roster of lovers. Any variety lover KNOWS that seeing a nice pair of tits just gets boring after the 4th or 5th time in a row.

Zelda: Wind Waker was repetitive all over. Why the hell do I have to play as Link ALL THE TIME? I thought it'd be fun taking the role of that fish guy that dispenses advice (I forget his name). Where's the controllable Tetra, and sidequest where you play as her to fend off dinosaurs and giant cockroaches from taking over the ship on the asteroid rings of Saturn? Dude, playing as Link gets dull after 5 seconds. It's just run here, slash slash, kill THE SAME Moblin like 5, maybe 6 TIMES in a period of 3 minutes, get the key, fight a mini-boss, blah blah blah... can you believe that we've had like 9 or so Zelda carnations, and NONE of them have Princess Zelda hentai?!? What the hell are these people gonna do, just sell us the same game with updated graphics every year or two?! Christ.

And SAILING, don't even get me started there. Why must players have monotonous, peaceful sailing forced upon them and have to resort to quiet contemplation or something other than ceaseless action to keep their whimsical attention spans on the game! When will these developers learn that players need nonstop hustle and bustle and thrills and chills! Seriously, other than the pirate ships, sharks, octos, giant octos, kargarocs, seahats, and the occasional ghost ship, it's all the same! Just the blue ocean stretching as far as the eye can see, ignoring islands, floating barrels, platforms, treasure spots, whirlwinds, and tornadoes, of course. What kinda bullshit is that?

I'm amazed that I'm the only one who agrees with Darunia here. There must be some serious Zelda zealots among you... for shame...

[OB1]

Hahahaha! *clap clap clap clap clap clap*

Post of the month!

[A Black Falcon]

Quite possibly. :)

[Great Rumbler]

Hahahaha! Poor Darunia, he always get's picked on. :D

[EdenMaster]

Kudos to Sacred Jellybean for a great post! I second the Post of the Month notion to go to Jellybean! (this could start something similar to ROTM :))

[Darunia]

*Abdicates from thread.*

[lazyfatbum]

hahahaha :D:D:D

If you turn your speakers up really loud and listen carefully, you can hear Darunia weeping.

[OB1]

Yeah let's start a post of the month thing. The prize will be... um... self-esteem.

[Great Rumbler]

The question has to be asked: Just how much self-esteem can gain from the knownledge that other's found a particular post of yours to be better then the rest, when you know deep down, that all you did was make fun of someonelse?


....




....



....




Answer: Quite a bit, that's how much!!

[Sacred Jellybean]

I can vouch for that. :S

[Darunia]

I gave you your cherished buddy icon, Jellybean...and THIS is how you repay me! With this sarcastic treachery! Le trahison sarcastique!

[OB1]

Oh great, now he's breaking out the French. I say we vote him off the island.

[EdenMaster]

Originally posted by Darunia
I gave you your cherished buddy icon, Jellybean...and THIS is how you repay me!

I'm just gonna go ahead and assume he means his avatar. Hey, he did make a point though, Darunia. You're blowing Wind Wakers low points way out of proportion and not focusing on the game as a whole. Yeah, you do fight a lot of Moblins, and yeah, you have to do a bit of sailing, but if you don't like it, go yell your funny little language at Shigeru Miyamoto. He has one too, so you might understand each other. We sure can't understand anything you say.

[A Black Falcon]

Sure, he has a point that there is lots of repetive enemies and sailing. But as he said himself, repetitive enemies are a normal thing in games... and as for the sailing, there was no way of doing that game without it...

[EdenMaster]

True, ABF, all games have repetitiveness. Darunia? you liked Resident Evil a lot, I know. There are about 5 different types of enemies in that game. Zombies, Crimson Heads, Gorillas, Cerberus (dogs), and Crows. Not including bosses like Lisa and Tyrant, thats about it. How about Eternal Darkness? You fight Zombies, Horrors, Bonethieves, and Trappers. Plus, there are only four stages, and you visit them several times though the course of the game with the 12 characters. I'm sure I could come up with plenty of other examples, but I won't get into it.

[A Black Falcon]

Look. More enemy variety is always a good thing. Too much repetive enemies can get annoying. But to the point of disliking a game? Only if the game is itsself bad...

Like Eternal Darkness. It really could have used some more kinds of enemies... but the game was so great that that didn't hurt it much...

[CartoonDevil]

Originally posted by OB1
The fighting in WW was so much damn fun. You sir, are what we like to call "teh crezzay!".

Fighting moblins in WW was almost as boring as the combat system in StarFox Adventures. Sure, by 'dodging' you could make the fight look cooler, but it was really easy and took no skill whatsoever (really just made the fight last longer, as you had to wait for them to try and attack). Oh, and the musical part of swordfighting got boring really quick.

-TheBiggah-

[EdenMaster]

Biggah? You're TheBiggah?

Hm, can't say I'm totally surprised, seeing as how you argue with OB1 so much.

[OB1]

Haha, I knew it! This poor little sap has been trying his darndest to insult me from day one and has failed at every step. I knew he was The Biggah. "Married with one kid" my ass! Hahahaha!

Oh man, this is hilarious. What a pathetic little troll.